Kamala Harris is Biden’s VP pick

Roxxsmom

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I just saw that. She's tough and smart and is someone who could step up to the plate if she needs to. She does have a skeleton with progressives with regards to her approach to crime when she was CA attorney general, but that might be a selling point with the White Suburbanites of America.

However, Trump's people are going to play dirty, so I'm sure they will find things to lie and exaggerate about in order to terrify Americans. In the end, though, the pick for VP is not nearly as relevant as who is at the top of the ticket.
 

regdog

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I'm very happy about this and can't wait to see her dismantle Pence in debates.
 

Lyv

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I'm ridiculously happy and ready to fight the disinformation and smears.

Biden/Harris 2020!
 

Kjbartolotta

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I just saw that. She's tough and smart and is someone who could step up to the plate if she needs to. She does have a skeleton with progressives with regards to her approach to crime when she was CA attorney general, but that might be a selling point with the White Suburbanites of America.

Just gonna drop this here, Public defender: I worked with Kamala Harris. She was the most progressive DA in California, which is a nice overview of her time as AG at least.

I know one of the that get brought up against her is the brief denying gender reassignment surgery to inmates, something I'm not going to tell anyone else how to feel about. But it was something she did because of her duty as attorney general to enforce the law while, and was affirmed to be working behind the scenes to get the laws changed. Link

The other thing that gets brought up constantly is the truancy program, which got a lot of criticism for the arrest of Cheree Peoples by an offshoot Orange County program. There's a good article by BlackWomanViews Media on the subject and a few other point of criticism, definitely from a 'strongly pro-Kamala' perspective. I think she lost control of the program and it's not a good look, I also understand the impetus behind it, which was not to lock up parents but rather to identify cases of neglect or abuse, of which truancy can be a strong indicator.

I think her justice record is a complicated subject, I've watched her career since she booted Terrence Hallinan out of office, crusty old hippy that he was. I think she's been consistent and pushed things forward whenever she's been able, while also making the kinds of deals with the devil ever person who choses to work that deep in the justice has to make. I think there's in the issue in of itself that she's was prosecutor, that may be a bridge too far for some people, though it's also put her in contact with people no politician would usually get to see or understand the problems of. It's just not a bad thing to me, nor do I think it makes her particularly pro-establishment or authoritarian in her attitudes or record.
 
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Diana Hignutt

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Even I know which set of alleged rapist and his transphobic running mate to vote for, the one that isn't a Nazi. What a country.
 
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Kjbartolotta

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Even I know which set of rapist and his transphobic running mate to vote for, the one that isn't a Nazi. What a country.

By rapist I assume you're referring to Biden, even though my understand of the allegations leveled against him by Tara Reide have fallen apart, largely based on her reported assault being largely picked apart as improbable (there was a good there on this on the site a while back), as well as some of Reide's own issues, including apparently fabricating her job duties under Biden and her lying about her credentials to get her job as an expert witness, which has been a mess for Monterey County because it means they're going to have to let a lot of people she testified against out of jail.

WRD transphobia, I've already said I'm not going to tell anyone else what to feel about Harris' actions, there's no way around that individuals were hurt by her actions and she's going to have to own that. As she's said. I don't see how she could have acted any differently when she filed the brief to delay hormonal treatment, since it was not her law she was enforcing but that of the state she represents. It's a position she chose to put herself by dint of her career in but in light of my understanding of her record I can't say that indicates someone who is actively, outspokenly transphobic, especially compared with Pence.

The link to the Lisa Talmadge thread I posted discusses this, as well as showing the way she has gained the support of individuals in the transgender community, as well as listing a number of actions & positions she's taken since then as AG, senator, and as a presidential candidate (The 2017 amicus brief she signed in support of Gavin Grimm and her appointment of transgender WOC Mariana Marroquin to the California Racial & Identity Profiling Board, among a few other points listed).
 

Diana Hignutt

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Alleged rapist, then. And most trans people I know do not support Harris (and I know a lot of trans people), but, like me, will vote Biden/Harris with gusto in November. Still, personally I would have liked more progressive candidates. I am not excited about Joe Biden, and I don't feel like President Biden will do what needs to be done to stave off the environmental/economic/social disaster whose gaping mawl we're staring into at this point in history. In fairness, I doubt anyone could. I am far happier to vote for Harris than for Biden, and I do appreciate the opportunity to vote for a woman of color for high office. I hope that we get to have an election this year, that every vote is counted, and election interference is held to a minimum, and this current national fascist nightmare ends. That is the most important thing. And I promise to never mention any negative (perceived or otherwise) qualities about our hallowed Democratic nominees until after the election.
 

Roxxsmom

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I'm afraid Biden is going to be about damage control and possibly restoring some faith in the Presidency and our public institutions, not enacting bold new programs or policies. Democratic voters wanted safe and stolid this time around, and while I had other preferences in the primary, I understand why people turn to a well-known, dependable quantity when the consequences are another term for the worst and most malicious (to anyone with interests converging with the Left, anyway) POTUS we've had in modern times, possibly forever (though Andrew Johnson was a piece of work too).

And now the world is burning, so the stakes are higher than ever. With Covid-19, I suspect even a more progressive candidate would be pretty consumed with trying to put that fire out, rather than radically restructuring our social institutions. The murder of George Floyd did push civil rights to the forefront again. It's also more the racists come out from under their rocks and show their hands in various ways. I'm pretty disturbed by the stuff some (older and white) people I've known for a long time are posting on social media. None of them come right out and said they think Black people should suck it up and accept that this is a White country created for White people, but this is what they mean with their outraged posts about "looters and rioters" and "attacks on police."

When asked whether they think Trump has made the protests worse and whether they think another Trump term will mean fewer protests (and less rioting) and less police brutality, they hem and haw, but it's pretty clear they believe sending in federal troops, the national guard etc. to provoke, arrest, even shoot, protesters en masse is just dandy--as long as it's not "their" people waving guns around while they piss and moan about not being able to get haircuts or go to large, indoor church services.

We live in scary times. Those who worry that another Trump term will plunge our country into fascism and possibly widespread civil disorder, even civil war, don't feel nearly as hyperbolic or alarmist as they once did. The dog whistles are becoming dog screams. I also get why people in the transgender community are worried that their civil rights will be tossed under the bus, again. There's still so much prejudice there, and not all of it resides in right-wing quarters. I don't think Harris is an enemy towards transgender people. Whether she will be an actual friend and ally remains to be seen.
 
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darkprincealain

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Not my favorite, but my favorite VP pick for Biden was always a long shot, and I will be voting for them. I perceive she has a lot of flaws from the trans people in my life (they don’t like what was already mentioned above, but beyond that there is the fact that prior to COVID-19, FOSTA and SESTA made sex work more dangerous https://whyy.org/segments/fosta-ses...x-trafficking-instead-its-sparked-a-movement/, which some of them depend on for work more often than cis people because traditional jobs are less apt to hire a trans person https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537120300646) but if this is the best we can do, this is the best we can do.
 

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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/14/female-vp-395571


This article talks about something that bugged me about the past two female VP picks: for the first time, a female running mate isn't being picked to prop up a trailing campaign. At this point, the election appears to be Biden's to lose (which is an interesting situation when his opponent is the incumbent). Of course the Trump folks are pulling out every stop they can to suppress and snarl the vote and to set thing up for contesting results if they lose.

Hope the third time is the charm, I really do. So much is at stake.
 

Kjbartolotta

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And I promise to never mention any negative (perceived or otherwise) qualities about our hallowed Democratic nominees until after the election.

This is not a dig, but I have no interest in enforcing anyone's pledge to vote for a candidate, tbh people have been having this conversation for years and it really doesn't interest me to hear the affirmation. If you don't want to vote for them then don't vote for them, you're not in a swing state so why does it matter?

And I'm not sure I'm asking anyone not to criticize the candidate, I apologize if I did not come off this way but I understand that you are connected to the
trans community and made it clear my respect for the hurt feelings there. My arguement, which I posted a link to back up, was that there are individuals within the trans community who endorse Harris, and that (as a non-trans person) I believe there is a distinction between her active attitudes and the necessities of the occupation.

Again, I apologize if it comes off that way but I am trying to engage in a manner that does not shut you down or negative your criticism, I would just like to discuss the circumstances behind your statement.

If you want to open a thread on the Tara Reide allegations then please do, I do not feel this issue is being discussed enough and hope that people can have time to clear the air and really unpack it.
 
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Diana Hignutt

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This is not a dig, but I have no interest in enforcing anyone's pledge to vote for a candidate, tbh people have been having this conversation for years and it really doesn't interest me to hear the affirmation. If you don't want to vote for them then don't vote for them, you're not in a swing state so why does it matter? And I'm not sure I'm asking anyone not to criticize the candidate, I apologize if I did not come off this way but I understand that you are connected to the trans community and made it clear my respect for the hurt feelings there. My arguement, which I posted a link to back up, was that there are individuals within the trans community who endorse Harris, and that (as a non-trans person) I believe there is a distinction between her active attitudes and the necessities of the occupation. Again, I apologize if it comes off that way but I am trying to engage in a manner that does not shut you down or negative your criticism, I would just like to discuss the circumstances behind your statement. If you want to open a thread on the Tara Reide allegations then please do, I do not feel this issue is being discussed enough and hope that people can have time to clear the air and really unpack it.
No one made Harris become the DA. She took that job which, apparently, required her to incarcerate a massive number of black men for marijuana charges, and deny trans inmates hormones, because the law. She did those things consciously and with knowledge of the injustice involved. Never was a fan of the "just following orders" excuse for people who took money to help torture and incarcerate people. Sorry, not sorry.All that said, we're in the midst of a Nazi takeover of the US government. I'm not stupid. I get that the perfect is the enemy of the good. I will vote (If I'm allowed to, even if my vote won't be counted) for Biden/Harris. But, I'm not just swallowing whatever excuses are offered up to gaslight flawed candidates' pasts.
 

Kjbartolotta

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There's also the fact that marijuana convictions went down under her and she declined to arrest users but instead only dealers. You can watch this clip to inform yourself, which features arguments on both sides or you can post a link to back up any of your arguments with some data. If your view is that a black women in the justice system is a bad thing, and that she deserves a sideways comparison to a Nazi and we're going to trot out the specious 'just following orders' argument, well then I disagree with the absolutism and lack of nuance in your take, but we're not going to argue over subjective realities. Clearly she should have broke the law and lost her job instead of sticking it out and making changes, which I feel I demonstrated that she did.

Also, rape is not a flaw, it's inexcusable. That's why I please ask, not as someone who needs to agree or convince you of anything but as something who cares about the spread of misinformation, to please back up your claims of Biden's rape allegations if you believe them to be factual. I would not vote for a rapist, that's why I took the time to research and see the issues with Reide's argument. The fact that's she's asking to speak at the RNC Convention makes me not trust her sincerity, along with a number of other reasons I've addressed and you've avoided talking about.

Also, gaslighting? That's a pretty incendiary accusation, I feel like we're not quite having the same conversation and you're reacting to me in a way I"m not intending, if you think trying to discuss and issue and have points of nuance while citing sources, which you seem to ignore or dodge, is gaslighting. It's hurtful, gaslighting is something I take seriously but it's also an easy accusation to throw around and that's fine if you feel that way, I think you're using it as a default but whateva.
 
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Kjbartolotta

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I can go all day discussing why I think Harris was a progressive prosecutor, even though she has a flinty pragmatic streak and I am happy to discuss all the problems that's created for her in time running the CA justice system. She was also ranked the most progressive senator in 2019, ahead of Bernie Sanders, so even though I give side-eye to the whole "I wish it was someone more progressive" I realize its becomes a One True Scotsman argument and I gotta let it be.

But so far she's been VP for less than a week, we have people calling her a transphobe & Biden a rapist w/o citations, and there's another thread where it could be interpreted that she's somehow beholden to Trump because of a donation Trump made (though this was not the OP's intent, I think it was still misleading), and there are people making unclear accusations based on this non-starter. All this is happening while Trump's & the right are currently questioning both her citizenship and her blackness, and I swear to God people, you do not have to like her, I like her and want to talk about her, you don't have to agree, but is anyone putting two and two together? Harris has commented often that Russian bots are amplifying attacks on her.
 
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Roxxsmom

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It is going to be really, really important that people trace the origin of stories and information this election season. There are going to be a bunch of entities spreading lies and misinformation, not to mention people who mis cite or provide factual stories out of context. It's going to be exhausting to keep up with all of this, to track down and provide citations for every piece of news or allegation. But we need to do this, because there are people with agendas, and people trying to undermine our election, not to mention foreign institutions that want us to react to things without thinking.

I know I've been caught out by plausible-sounding stories that are exaggerations, out of context, or out and out fake news.

It's complicated, because one's values, political orientation, and reactions to politicians are about the feels too, and people's life experiences will certainly drive how they respond to something emotionally, and of course which pieces of factual information are more relevant to them. This is legitimate too. But I think it is important to understand the different nature of the sexual assault allegations against Biden vs Trump so we don't paint false equivalencies. I believe every person who accuses another of a crime should be taken seriously and evidence should be weighed carefully. This doesn't mean every allegation is true.

A think that's bothered me about this allegation all along is the history of the accuser, her personal record of irresponsibility and dishonesty, not related to her past sex life but across a broad swathe of her life. I also am not comfortable with defenses that rely on dissecting the character of an accuser, however (because even if they are true, well, irresponsible and dishonest people can be assaulted too). But what do you have when there are no witnesses or other allegations coming forward? I know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but what would I do if (say) a former student came forward and claimed I'd sexually assaulted them years ago? How could I prove I didn't do it without examining the alleged victim's past history of credibility?

But this gets at the whole reason why (in courts of law) defenders try to establish reasonable doubt by performing character assassination on the victim, which is despicable. Is the court of public opinion different? Should one allegation be enough to render someone unfit for office, even if no evidence supports it? What constitutes compelling evidence anyway? Corroborations and records confirming the two people were alone together in a time and place? Witnesses who remember the victim talking about things happening at the time? Witnesses who saw something odd happening in the hallway but dismissed it at the time? Records of complaints made at the time? All of these can be picked apart, even when they are present, and there are reasons they might not be present, even when an assault was real.

I have to say I don't think the evidence against Biden has been compelling, and I very much question his accuser's motivations and reliability. Though her speaking at the Republican National Convention could be a result of legitimate anger and feeling the other party has abandoned her. At least one can make that case. I look long and hard at myself and have to consider whether or not I'd be convinced by this evidence if Biden were a GOP candidate or appointee. That's a tough one, because we're all inclined to be biased against those we already dislike for other reasons. I don't dislike Biden, even though I would have much preferred different democratic candidates. To someone who does dislike him, the evidence may be more damning.
 
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Diana Hignutt

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I amended my statement to alleged rapist, for which I would think the citation in your link, disputing those allegations would have been sufficient to demonstrate allegations existing. Likewise for the citation regarding the fact the Harris enforced the law to deny trans people hormones, despite her alleged disagreement with the policy. I believe your links adequately supported those assertions...that there were allegations against Biden, and that Harris' job forced her to deny medicine from trans people. Further, the gaslighting that I was referring to was on the part of Harris, for stating, after the fact, that she had reservations about the things she was required to do for her job. A job she could have quit at any time, or not taken in the first place for that matter, knowing as she presumably did, that it would force her to do morally wrong things.

You keep saying you're not trying to tell people how to think about Harris' actions, but you sure do seem to be trying to tell me that I'm wrong to think the way I do. Maybe, I'm misreading what is going on here. Could be. I've been super exhausted lately. Life in the Fire Nation. You understand.

You wanted to know my thinking behind making the statements I made, and that seems like a fair and reasonable request. Sigh. I think Joe Biden is a centrist POS, and I don't care for yet another old, white guy, who clearly can't keep his hands to himself ( https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-...-allegation-can-strengthen-the-metoo-movement ), at this point of apocalyptic crisis caused by late stage capitalism's social and environmental toll. I'm very sad that at this point in history, Joe Biden is the best thing the Democratic Party has to offer in the way of national leadership. I've already discussed my issue with Harris in this thread, and I take a hard moral stand on participating in human rights violations (i.e. denying trans people necessary medicines). Probably harder than most will. I would not take a job I knew I had to do such a thing, and if I did not know, I would not remain in that position after I found out. I'm sure there is a great deal I will like about Harris as I learn more about her. I understand that in comparison with Trump and Pence, Biden and Harris are paragons of civic virtue and political statesmanship, and I will be voting for them enthusiastically. Anyway, those are my opinions regarding Biden and Harris, and I hope I am entitled to them. They really are of no more importance, and I am sorry for what I had intended as a throwaway comment on what I perceived to be sad choices for the next president.

I apologize for any upset my words may have caused. I am sincere in my desire to speak no more ill of Biden or Harris until they are safely in the White House, if we are lucky enough for that to happen.

I hope I have answered any questions, about my expressed feelings that anyone may have. I would prefer to move on now, fully in support of our Democratic ticket.