Covid-19 | Coronavirus August 2020

frimble3

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I suspect what her grandmother suspects that the doctors suspects.
Sounds like in the Spring and Summer she had a lot of chances to get a mild case of COVID, or an asymptomatic case, which might have weakened her immune system enough for something else sneak in.
Because, again, we know so little about COVID or it's aftereffects.

Wishing all the best to her and the rest of the family.
 
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Friendly Frog

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I hope your granddaughter recovers speedily and fully, Shakey.

Because, again, we know so little about COVID or it's aftereffects.
True indeed. There are patients who are needing months or more to recover their health.
 

shakeysix

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Thanks guys. It has been a hellish 3 months. Poor kid was wearing a bikini in the ambulance and when they admitted her. She was taking her little brother to the pool. They took her temp at the pool and the fever was back. Because it is a community pool the staff called her mom to take her to urge care. Urge care sent her on to the hospital. Her mom had to stop at Target to buy pajamas. She was following in the car. She said the lobby of the hospital looked like that scene from E.T. when Eliot's house was quarantined. Crazy thing, people in Kansas still think this is a hoax.
 
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Introversion

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Vitamin D deficiency as a predictor of poor prognosis in patients with acute respiratory failure due to COVID-19

Journal of Endocrinological Investigation said:
...

Results
Eighty one percent of patients had hypovitaminosis D. Based on vitamin D levels, the population was stratified into four groups: no hypovitaminosis D, insufficiency, moderate deficiency, and severe deficiency. No differences regarding demographic and clinical characteristics were found. A survival analysis highlighted that, after 10 days of hospitalization, severe vitamin D deficiency patients had a 50% mortality probability, while those with vitamin D ≥ 10 ng/mL had a 5% mortality risk (p = 0.019).

Conclusions
High prevalence of hypovitaminosis D was found in COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory failure, treated in a RICU. Patients with severe vitamin D deficiency had a significantly higher mortality risk. Severe vitamin D deficiency may be a marker of poor prognosis in these patients, suggesting that adjunctive treatment might improve disease outcomes.

...

Be safe, everyone!
 

RedRajah

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My dinner theatre troupe had a show this past Saturday. 31 people showed up (out of a cut-off now of 50). There was socially distant seating at the tables.



What frustrated me still was, even after meals were finished, apart from one audience member, the only people who consistently wore masks were us actors and the hotel staff.
 

Roxxsmom

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Coronavirus outbreak reported after in-person classes resume at Georgia Highschool. This is the school now (in)famous for temporarily suspending a student who posted pictures of crowded corridors filled with mostly maskless students on the first day of classes. Nine have tested positive so far, but don't worry. :sarcasm They're closing the school for 2 days to sanitize everything. That should stop the spread of a virus that spreads from person to person through the air, especially in crowded indoor spaces!

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...tches-to-virtual-learning-after-9-positive-te

Nice to know Georgia is embracing science at last. Too bad it's already several months out of date.
 

JJ Litke

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They're closing the school for 2 days to sanitize everything.

Hygiene theater.

Isn’t there a term for how people latch on to the very first piece of information they’re given even after it’s proved to not be accurate? That’s what seems to be happening with the concept of trying to clean away the virus. On Good Morning America today they interviewed someone from Clorox about how people are still scrambling to get Clorox wipes. Not once did they address that the virus is airborne and bleaching surfaces won’t stop you from getting it.
 

MaeZe

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Clearly two days cleaning surfaces without any effort to quarantine students and staff long enough is indeed feel-good theater.

But don't rule out surface and fomite spread because there isn't a flood of evidence yet about this means of transmission. That was the mistake I kept screaming Fauci et al were making in regards to asymptomatic spread and the benefits of masks, and more recently the mistake was repeated dismissing aerosol spread.

Aerosol and Surface Transmission Potential of SARS-CoV-2
Pilot study in an isolation area of the University of Nebraska Medical Center
The study found that 71% of all personal items sampled were positive for SARS-CoV-2 (cellular phones were 78% positive, remote controls for in-room televisions were 56% positive, samples of toilets were 81% positive, 71% of the bedside tables and bed rails and 73% of the window ledges, all the floor beneath patients’ beds’ samples and four-fifths of ventilation grates tested positive by RT-PCR. Samples taken in the hallways were 58.3% positive.

The highest airborne concentrations were recorded by personal samplers in the Nebraska Biocontainment Unit while the patient was receiving oxygen through a nasal cannula. No cough was observed while sampling was taking place. Correlation between the strength of positivity of samples and symptoms was weak. An air sample and a window sill sample had weak replication results.

What did they do?
The study reports the results of environmental sampling (air and surface) around thirteen individuals in isolation for Covid-19 on days 5 to 9 and 10 of occupancy. Additional samples were obtained on day 18 after another patient had been admitted to the unit for four days. The surface samples came from common room surfaces, personal items, and toilets.

Clearly not definitive and we don't know if those samples represented the risk the virus could then be contracted by persons touching the surfaces and then touching their eye/nose/mouth.


Aerosol and surface distribution of SARs-CoV-2 in hospital wards, Wuhan, China
Bottom Line
In a hospital treating COVID-19 patients, SARS-CoV-2 RNA was found widely distributed in surface and air samples.

Evidence Summary
Contamination was greater in intensive care units (54/124 samples) than general wards (9/114 samples).

A 100% rate of positivity was found on the floor in the pharmacy, where there were no patients.

Half of the samples from the soles of the ICU medical staff shoes tested positive.

The rate of positivity was relatively high for floor swab samples (ICU 7/10; general ward 2/13).

The highest rates were found for computer mice (ICU 6/8; general ward 1/5), followed by trash cans (ICU 3/ 5; general ward 0/8), sickbed handrails (ICU 6/14; general ward 0/12), and doorknobs (general ward 1/12, 8.3%).

SARS-CoV-2 RNA was detected in the air 4 m from patients.
The floor of the pharmacy! Think about that, it means people are tracking the virus all over the hospital. It means you probably contaminate your hands taking off your shoes if you've been in a high infection environment like that church choir where lots of people got infected.

A school corridor is going to turn out to be a problem if schools are opened too soon or without adequate control measures.

The details and floor plan of the sampled areas can be found at the link.
What else should I consider?
The authors suggest the high contamination of floors is due to gravity and airflow causing most virus droplets to float to the ground, as well as medical staff moving the contamination with their shoes as they walk around. It is unexplained, why three of five COVID-19 patients’ masks tested negative.


This is the link I used to find these studies: The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine develops, promotes and disseminates better evidence for healthcare. - Open Evidence Reviews - Transmission Dynamics of COVID-19
 

Roxxsmom

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People should definitely continue to wash their hands and keep things clean, but thus far the outbreak clusters have been linked to gatherings, particularly indoors, not food delivery, mail, packages, or touching doorknobs, gas pumps etc. Doesn't mean there aren't any cases at all that spread these ways (after all, they haven't been able to contact trace all cases), just that it appears to be harder to get whatever the necessary number of infectious, still "alive" particles is (we still don't know that number either or how long, exactly, the particles can remain infectious under different conditions) through the necessary tissues via fomites. In environments where there is a huge concentration of virus, and where little time has elapsed, it's definitely possible, though. They've found viral particles under beds in hospital rooms. Hospitals are going to be the worst in that respect.

The idea that deep cleaning is somehow a panacea when there is an outbreak, though, that's sheer idiocy and PR BS aimed at the ignorant. People are going to be breathing a lot of virus in when they pack classrooms, cafeterias and so on and no one is even wearing masks. The virus particles they may ingest with their lunches are probably the least of their worries.
 

MaeZe

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People should definitely continue to wash their hands and keep things clean, but thus far the outbreak clusters have been linked to gatherings, particularly indoors, not food delivery, mail, packages, or touching doorknobs, gas pumps etc. Doesn't mean there aren't any cases at all that spread these ways (after all, they haven't been able to contact trace all cases), just that it appears to be harder to get whatever the necessary number of infectious, still "alive" particles is (we still don't know that number either or how long, exactly, the particles can remain infectious under different conditions) through the necessary tissues via fomites. In environments where there is a huge concentration of virus, and where little time has elapsed, it's definitely possible, though. They've found viral particles under beds in hospital rooms. Hospitals are going to be the worst in that respect.

The idea that deep cleaning is somehow a panacea when there is an outbreak, though, that's sheer idiocy and PR BS aimed at the ignorant. People are going to be breathing a lot of virus in when they pack classrooms, cafeterias and so on and no one is even wearing masks. The virus particles they may ingest with their lunches are probably the least of their worries.

I worry I'm getting a tad sloppy with the mail. But dry paper surfaces don't really buildup much transmissible material. I try to let things I bring in from the store sit a day or two before I put them away or use them.

I was wiping down stuff going in the fridge or freezer but I've switched instead to considering their surfaces contaminated and I wash my hands the same way I do handling meat. It was too hard to wipe down the egg cartons. That's when I gave up and went to the 'treat as contaminated' route.

I urge caution with the sentence in your post that I bolded. We don't know what is being spread on surfaces and fomites. No one has looked.

I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph. We have a POTUS who believes in his wishful thinking fantasy and he keeps promoting it. He wants schools to open, and everything else to return to business as usual. He spreads this fantasy and ~40% of the people in this county are eating his magical thinking up.

We are in for many more disasters before people catch on. This is not going away because people want it to. God is not going to protect all these people going to religious gatherings proclaiming their faith as if their God is pleased with their faith. I don't believe any God wants people to put nurses and doctors at risk to prove said people's faith. I wish folks would point that out to them more often.
 

JJ Litke

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The idea that deep cleaning is somehow a panacea when there is an outbreak, though, that's sheer idiocy and PR BS aimed at the ignorant.

Yes, this is the point I was getting at. Cleaning surfaces while ignoring person-to-person transmission is never going to work. It’s easier, though, which must be why it’s so appealing to act like that’s enough.
 

BenPanced

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  1. At The Day Job™, two people used to go to the post office to pick up the mail each morning. Now, only one goes.
  2. Incoming mail is isolated for 48 hours before it's processed.
  3. Each piece of mail used to be handled by four people from opening to verification and entry into the system. Now, only one person does all four steps for each piece.
  4. Gloves and masks are REQUIRED.
  5. Out of 100+ in my department, there are only 10? 11? on site each day (rotating schedule). Everybody else is working from home.
  6. There is no Step 6.
  7. In fact, out of 1000+ employees in the entire building? There are less than 100 on site daily. Bare minimum allowed for each area.
  8. Movement about the building is minimized.
  9. Workstatons are a minimum of the standard 6' apart.
  10. Each person entering the building needs to have prior clearance/knowledge they're on the premises. They'll be turned away, if necessary.
  11. Each person entering is greeted by a nurse who checks their temperature and asks the standard questions about exposure to the virus.
  12. Hand sanitizing stations are within easy reach of pretty much every doorway.
  13. Speaking of doors, there are also anti-bac door pulls and surface guards.
  14. Deep cleaning of surfaces occurs every night.
  15. See #1.
 

Roxxsmom

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I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph. We have a POTUS who believes in his wishful thinking fantasy and he keeps promoting it. He wants schools to open, and everything else to return to business as usual. He spreads this fantasy and ~40% of the people in this county are eating his magical thinking up.

We are in for many more disasters before people catch on. This is not going away because people want it to. God is not going to protect all these people going to religious gatherings proclaiming their faith as if their God is pleased with their faith. I don't believe any God wants people to put nurses and doctors at risk to prove said people's faith. I wish folks would point that out to them more often.

I am guessing that if it were common for groceries, food delivery and mail to spread this, we'd have even more cases than we have been, because I don't know anyone else, besides those of us who have discussed it in this forum, who have been cleaning/quarantining groceries or disinfecting stuff coming into the house from outside, though everyone is practicing hand hygiene and cleaning counters more than they once did. None of my friends or family are concerned about mail and groceries, and none have become ill yet. Maybe some have been asymptomatic, but no one has had a symptomatic case that I know in person.

But without more contact tracing than we've been doing, we won't really have a good idea what the relative risks are. You have background in public health. Most don't, and most people I know are not taking precautions as seriously as most folks here on AW have been, even if they support the shut down, loathe Trump, and are worried about the virus infecting them or someone they love.

I think this is one reason so many people can't bring themselves to take it seriously, though. Until there is an outbreak cluster encompassing their inner circle, they think of it as a distant, nebulous threat--something that happens to other people. Covid protective measures, and many people's attitudes about them, remind me a bit of what George Carlin (I think it was him) said about driving. People who are more worried about precautionary measures than they are are timid sheep or worrywarts or hysterical, or OCD etc. and people who are less worried than they are are reckless assholes or idiots.

And that's before politics rears its ugly head.
 

ChaseJxyz

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It's definitely possible to catch covid from surfaces: someone can cough onto their hands, open a door, then you open the door and then end up touching your face. Various excretions from various orifices contain covid (some much more gross than others) but people tend not to get, say, norovirus from being in an elevator with other people. They get it because people don't wash their hands after certain activities. At least in America this probably isn't what's happening, it's stuff coming out of people's face holes and then being breathed in, hence why masks cut down transmission so much.

The Clorox wipes thing is kind of silly because....Lysol wipes exist? Target or Walmart-brand wipes exist? Yes, Lysol isn't bleach, but they both do a very good job killing germs/viruses and that's the important part. Just looking at Target and stores in my area there's some sort of germ-killing wipe available at each of them. Or you can just buy a jug of the chemical and and use a paper towel. The wipe is super convenient but you don't NEED it (compare this to single-use alcohol swab pad things you need to, say, sterilize an injection site). The marketing teams for these chemical companies need to start cranking out ads showing people using spray bottles and paper towels; Lysol has a long history of shifting what exactly their product is and how to use it to fit current trends. Don't lose those customers just because they can't get Clorox in the exact format they want.
 

Sage

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At least in my area, all types of surface cleaners are still gone from shelves. I’d love a non-bleach cleaner, but can’t find any.

Bleach, however, is now available at the grocery store. I don’t want to use it on the kitty litter box, which is what I loved wipes for (but use a regular surface cleaner right now)
 

MaeZe

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Norovirus can be aerosolized by vomiting and toilet flushing. When someone vomits in a commercial kitchen the whole kitchen has to be shut down and everything exposed has to be thrown out (the food). Every surface has to be wiped down with bleach. Alcohol based hand sanitizers are ineffective. Just saying.

I think the coronaviruses are easily killed. But if you are using Lysol, read the label for active ingredients. They have been cited for false advertising more than once.

Simple solution, get a spray bottle and make a 10% bleach solution. Just remember not to keep it too long without making a new solution. The bleach evaporates out and the solution gets weaker every day. And be careful with some things because bleach can damage some surfaces.
 
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Introversion

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In Mother Russia, vaccine testing skips testing, goes straight to you.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/russia-rushes-to-distribute-its-untested-covid-19-vaccine-sputnik-v/

Ars Technica said:
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Tuesday that Russia is the first country in the world to grant regulatory approval for a COVID-19 vaccine—dubbed “Sputnik V.”

Putin claimed that one of his own daughters has already received a dose of the vaccine, according to reports from Moscow—though he didn’t note which daughter. Russian officials pledged to vaccinate millions within the month, starting with healthcare workers and teachers.

Little is known about Sputnik V, which was developed by researchers at the Gamaleya Institute in Moscow. There is no public data on the vaccine, let alone any published, peer-reviewed scientific studies. Public registration of two small clinical trials notes that Sputnik V uses a viral-vector-based design, but they suggest that it has only been tested in a small number of people. The trials, which began less than two months ago, enrolled 38 healthy volunteers and have an estimated study completion date of August 15.

The World Health Organization, which tracks international COVID-19 vaccine development efforts, lists Sputnik V as being only in the first of three main clinical trial phases. Generally, Phase I clinical trials for vaccines are small—typically only involving dozens of people—and only assess the safety of the candidate. Phase II trials may involve hundreds of people and look further at safety, dosing, and the immune responses that the vaccine triggers, which may hint at the vaccine’s possible efficacy. Then there is the Phase III trial, which often involves tens of thousands of people and looks at whether the vaccine protects against infection and disease.

It appears that Russia has skipped Phase III—and possibly has not finished Phase II yet.

In a meeting Tuesday, Putin reportedly said that “of course, what counts most is for us to be able to ensure the unconditional safety of the use of this vaccine and its efficiency in the future. I hope that this will be accomplished.”

...

Stop giving our idiot orders ideas, Putie-poot!
 

Roxxsmom

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I don't think anyone debates that it is possible to catch Covid-19 from surfaces. It's more a question of how commonly this occurs compared to airborne transmission. This is a very different virus than noro, which is not enveloped, and where ingestion is the primary route of infection. Non-enveloped viruses thumb their noses at soap and stomach acid. 18 noro particles can make someone ill, it sticks around for months sometimes, and only certain disinfectants work on it.

We don't know how many Sars-Cov-2 particles must be taken in via various routes to cause infection, but most experts think it is considerably more than norovirus. Whether that means a couple thousand, though, or hundreds of thousands is still up in the air, AFIAK. A sneeze at point blank can throw hundreds of thousands in your face, though. Randomly touching a surface that someone sneezed on hours or days ago, though, would convey much fewer, and it's not clear how infectious they would still be.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't wash our hands before we eat, or after we've been some place where we are touching things or when we've been handling stuff from outside. As MaeZe said, it may be a better use of time to simply treat the food from the fridge (where particles could live longer) the way one handles meat--wash hands and surfaces after handling the packages and make sure food is washed or cooked properly.

The main point is that when public health resources are limited, spending money spraying down all surfaces in public spaces each night might be a less effective use of said funds than paying for masks and shields and making sure the HVac is set to pull air from outside rather than recirculating, and to exchange air as many times per hour as possible and to change filters frequently etc. Oh, and also that thing about limiting the number of people who can be in a building at a time.

This idea that six feet is sufficient indoors (or outdoors when not masked) is also problematic, since aerosols spread a lot further. 12 is more prudent, but even so, people should be masked in all indoor spaces at all times, unless they are having a procedure that requires the mask to be removed.

Sadly, my own county is having a huge spike right now. 1200 new cases in a single day--the largest single-day increase ever by far (our population is 1.5 million). I'm sure the mask naysayers will cite this as evidence that masking doesn't work, since you do see more people wearing them now. However, we also have more people having get togethers and gatherings, and churches are defying orders, and restaurants have open patio areas (with 6' distancing, not 12') and a bunch of other things that are careless.

Oh, and my spouse just got a jury summons, so evidently the courts are open. Sounds like a blast, eh? Sitting in a crowded room for 8 hours, masked the whole time, waiting for your group to be called into a windowless court room. Even if they have tape on the floor for lines and are making everyone sit every third chair, it seems like a disaster in the making.

Wonder how they handle folks who don't know their nasal cavities are connected to the rest of their respiratory tract (and a source of "covidetttes in their own right).
 
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Stytch

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Dropping in to share my exasperation with the people of my region. Rural SE NC. Not known for its high level of education. Often known for its high number of communicable diseases. Seriously, doctors come here because it's one of the places you can reliably find TB patients and all levels of medical crazy that "you usually only see in a textbook." (Yes, that's a quote from a resident I interviewed at my old job.) I assume it's all tied to the high poverty rate, low literacy rate, etc. It's all one big cycle of OMG. The other day we had the highest positive percentage of COVID tests in the state. Anyhow... the county health director is clearly losing patience with everyone refusing to act right, and so on each daily social media post, as well as the day's stats on cases, deaths, etc., he's began adding a little bit of... common sense, shall I say? Example from yesterday:

"An inquiry was made about a mandatory quarantine period for the people returning from the bike rally at Sturgis. North Carolina has not imposed a quarantine period on travelers from any specific place. The prudent thing would be for those travelers to self-quarantine but given their reluctance to take any preventative measures when it comes to the spread of COVID-19, this is probably a wasted thought." (I suppose I should add that this is DEEP Harley Davidson country. Folks paint that orange color and the logo on everything. They're big big fans. It's not unlikely that lots of people will come home from Sturgis soon, or wish they'd gone, pandemic be damned.)

Y'all... The folks calling for his head over this. "HOW DARE HE! HE SHOULD BE FIRED!" ...lololololol.... Today he responded to some of the criticism with info about the wacked out nature of available testing stats (none of which he can control) and the fact that one person died after being discharged from the hospital after a lengthy ICU stay and a negative test. Right after this, I guess, the person died of a seizure. His added "opinion" to this story is simply, "Originally ruled a COVID death, it was changed due to negative tests indicating she was recovered. But was she truly recovered?" He didn't say anything else, just asked the question. Other than the gender and the length of stay in the hospital, there were no dates or other identifying info, so all the folks screaming he's violating HIPAA (but they say HIPPA, of course) are wrong, in my estimation. Anyhow... the RAGE that he do anything other than relay stats, like it's not HIS JOB to look after the county's health, and he's OUT OF LINE for suggesting residents should do better, and that there are many unknowns to all this... It's a look, as the kids say.

The steadily determined ignorance is suffocating me. This county voted for Trump in large numbers, and I have no doubt they will again. It's all connected, as I said up higher. I had this hunted feeling after the 2016 election, like I was surrounded by people who I'd thought were safe but had turned out to be, in fact, cannibals. Now when I go on my weekly store run, I've got that itchy feeling between my shoulder blades again.
 
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JJ Litke

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The main point is that when public health resources are limited, spending money spraying down all surfaces in public spaces each night might be a less effective use of said funds than paying for masks and shields and making sure the HVac is set to pull air from outside rather than recirculating, and to exchange air as many times per hour as possible and to change filters frequently etc. Oh, and also that thing about limiting the number of people who can be in a building at a time.

Exactly, thank you. It’d be lovely if people would not argue points that no one has ever made.

And I stand by my statement that it’s a lot of hygiene theater. That’s the easy route. Open schools, don’t worry about masks or distancing or good ventilation, spray some bleach around, then hype how you’re doing so much to protect everyone because bleach!

Because while it may be that there is a distantly possible chance of getting covid from touching surfaces that someone who’s infected has touched, you are FAR more likely to get it if you are close to that person without either of you wearing masks. And no amount of hand sanitizer, bleach, or soap will prevent that kind of spread.

Wonder how they handle folks who don't know their nasal cavities are connected to the rest of their respiratory tract (and a source of "covidetttes in their own right).

Lol. Ever since this comic started going around, when I see someone with their nose hanging out of their mask, I think, their face-penis is exposed.
 

Roxxsmom

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Lol. Ever since this comic started going around, when I see someone with their nose hanging out of their mask, I think, their face-penis is exposed.

A classic.

There was a woman on the news today who is a school nurse in Florida. She's making masks for kids, but during the interview she was wearing one of her own home made masks, her nose was exposed. She kept pulling it up, but it kept falling down again (the mask, not the nose)!

And it's probably awful of me to sound sour when she's volunteering her time in such a sweet way, but if you are making medical devices for people, there's the potential to do a lot of harm if they're not well designed. Kids have enough trouble keeping their masks on as it is!

One of my friends recently took her two daughters, aged 8 and 10, to an appointment where they had to be masked. Her ten-year-old apparently licks the inside of her mask, so it was a sodden mess, and the eight-year-old kept fiddling with hers. I don't know how teachers could deal with a class full of squirmy kids and try to keep them all properly masked while doing a lesson.

I understand that masks are uncomfortable. I have a large, high-bridged nose, so if a mask with earloops is pulled up as high as it should be, up to the bridge of my nose, it's also tapping my lower eyelids and eyeballs sometimes, or even blocking my vision. I have to use a clip behind the mask to get it to stay up and be snug enough not to ride up or down--the ear loops alone don't do it very well for me. And some cloth masks work better for me than others.
 
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mccardey

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And I stand by my statement that it’s a lot of hygiene theater.
On its own, it is - I agree. And if it's encouraging people to go out because they feel safer than they should, then it's very dangerous.
 

Roxxsmom

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On its own, it is - I agree. And if it's encouraging people to go out because they feel safer than they should, then it's very dangerous.

It's extremely dangerous, and it definitely leads to false confidence by individuals. Especially when local authorities and businesses are opening schools, churches, gyms etc. and are reassuring people that they are "deep cleaning" all the surfaces and equipment when they don't even require masks or enforce social distancing measures or worry about what the actual case numbers are.
 

frimble3

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