Publishers that accept ideas which are already "out there"?

Heya--a few publishers do accept previously published work. In fact I've started a list, although I forget where I put it and there're only two names on the list at the moment. But they do exist.

It's not clear if you're talking about pitching an idea without fleshing it out, or subbing a completed work based on a smaller/shorter version you've already published.

If the former - it probably depends on how much of the book is already out there.

If the latter - I don't think there are publishers who will accept a pitch on an unfinished work of fiction, unless you're already a known quantity. Others may prove me wrong, of course.

I'm not an expert of course, by "ideas" do you mean "plots," or "concepts?" or "scenaros?"

CalRazor said:

Well, hopefully I don't make things more confusing, but I mean pitching an idea (with sample chapters/outline). Example would be Quirk Books. I did consider subbing a completed work based off shorter version, but just didn't know if publishers like that exist.

Click to expand...

I read Quirk's guidelines a little differently than you have. While they don't ask for the full manuscript up front, I assume their request for sample chapters presumes you've got a finished book attached to those chapters.

It's also worth noting that only one of their editors is open to unagented subs.

CalRazor said:

Should've been more specific. I meant plots/concepts. Specifically the latter.

Click to expand...

On this, I don't think you need to worry. Discussing an idea is not the same as writing a book.

CalRazor said:

Well, hopefully I don't make things more confusing, but I mean pitching an idea (with sample chapters/outline). Example would be Quirk Books. I did consider subbing a completed work based off shorter version, but just didn't know if publishers like that exist.

Click to expand...

So...basically it sounds like you want to sell on proposal? But you haven't been published before, have you? My understanding is that for fiction, this is mainly done for established authors...

I still think that a beginner (new novelist) needs to create a full book (whatever format you are working on) before a publisher will see you. I would keep plots/concepts to myself really. The scenerio that would scare me is going to a publisher with a great idea, and the publisher giving the idea to a top novelist, and you do not even get mentioned as a source, and then, if you actually try to write it, and the top novelist also writes it, you would be the one considered "copying" the top writer. You know?

It falls in with how everyone writes a YA SF about a boy and a dragon--or something like that.

Kalyke said:

I still think that a beginner (new novelist) needs to create a full book (whatever format you are working on) before a publisher will see you. I would keep plots/concepts to myself really. The scenerio that would scare me is going to a publisher with a great idea, and the publisher giving the idea to a top novelist, and you do not even get mentioned as a source, and then, if you actually try to write it, and the top novelist also writes it, you would be the one considered "copying" the top writer. You know?

Click to expand...

1. Yes, an unknown is so unlikely to be able to successfully pitch a (fiction) idea without a completed manuscript I'd side-eye any publisher who said they were open to such a thing. Screen very, very carefully for scammers.

2. No idea is so original that two books covering it can't exist at the same time. The scenario of a publisher stealing an idea and giving it to a "top novelist" to write just isn't a thing.

I may be wrong, but I'm sensing two questions here.

Would a publisher give any consideration to a book that is not yet completely written? From an unknown writer? That would be foolish. No matter how talented the writing, the writer could still turn out to be like me - with hundreds of thousands of words written, but nothing ever finished.

The other question is, if a story or chapter is already published, which publishers would consider accepting a complete book containing that piece? I think this may have to do with copyrights, which are not so easy to understand.

RC turtle said:

The other question is, if a story or chapter is already published, which publishers would consider accepting a complete book containing that piece? I think this may have to do with copyrights, which are not so easy to understand.

Click to expand...

I don't think this is a copyright issue (the author holds the copyright unless explicitly conveyed; a publisher buys printing and distribution rights). I think it's more a question of pre-published material, and there, I think it's the age-old answer It Depends.

There are a number of well-regarded SFF books that were based on short stories, or originally published as serials. I don't know how common it is in other genres, or how common it is today in SFF, but it's not an unknown model.

Whether or not there'd be issues with a novel based on a published shorter piece...I'm inclined to doubt it, but it'd be important to be up front with any publisher/agent interested in the novel.

CalRazor said:

Hmm, now that I'm thinking about it, there have been ebooks that have been picked up by traditional publishers, so I'd imagine that if I had a short story which I based a novel on, it'd be similar to that.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind when a trade publisher picks up a self-published book, it's generally when that self-published book has sold a lot. A short story up on a web site isn't really analogous to that.

But if you're rewriting, it's probably not relevant either.

lizmonster said:

I don't think this is a copyright issue (the author holds the copyright unless explicitly conveyed; a publisher buys printing and distribution rights).

Click to expand...

So, as long as you haven't signed anything specifically saying you're giving someone else rights, you can still do anything you want with your work? What about a website's terms of service? Can they put things in there (that you accept without reading) making you give up rights?

CalRazor said:

previous exposure of a sample chapter or two wouldn't necessarily hurt my chances with a publisher (not necessarily help either, more neutral).

Click to expand...

I'm seeing more and more free chapters given out as advertising teases. Does that have to go through the publisher you mean?

RC turtle said:

So, as long as you haven't signed anything specifically saying you're giving someone else rights, you can still do anything you want with your work? What about a website's terms of service? Can they put things in there (that you accept without reading) making you give up rights?

Click to expand...

I Am Not A Lawyer, but basically, read the terms of service. Always.

Your work is yours as soon as it's created, unless you explicitly give away your copyright.

The concern about putting work on the web is that it's published at that point, and a lot of publishers prefer first publication rights. If you put your stuff on the web, you've used those rights yourself (often for negligible benefit).

It's best to understand your ultimate goals for a particular work before you do anything with any of it.

CalRazor said:

This was another thing I overlooked. "First publication rights" being taken away, and minus any noticeable sales...might hurt my chances if trying to go the traditional route. But I guess rewriting the main plot, and having a different protagonist could negate that since based on my understanding of what you said, having the concept already out there isn't a big deal. If it's an entirely different story with the same concept, I might be ok.

Click to expand...

To be clear, self-publishing is just as "traditional" as trade. Moreso, if you're looking at how long ago it started.

IME an entirely different story won't be a problem. But as I said above, it's worth giving some thought about your ambitions for this book, and your career. An interested agent will likely google you and find the short story, so it pays to make sure it's as strong as you can make it.

Personally, I'm wildly paranoid about such things. I'd take down any fiction until I was sure what avenue I was pursuing. But I've had a few conversations over the last few years that suggest some agents, at least, aren't as concerned about display sites as I am (I suspect because in the last 10 years or so a lot of young writers have come up through supportive communities like Wattpad and AO3). You probably don't need to worry, beyond the quality issue.

CalRazor said:

This was another thing I overlooked. "First publication rights" being taken away, and minus any noticeable sales...might hurt my chances if trying to go the traditional route. But I guess rewriting the main plot, and having a different protagonist could negate that since based on my understanding of what you said, having the concept already out there isn't a big deal. If it's an entirely different story with the same concept, I might be ok.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert, but... if you're talking about a chapter or two and haven't posted the whole work online, I don't think that would harm your chances of being published. And since it's been significantly reworked in the meantime, it may not be recognizable anyway. It's not the *concept* that matters in a publishing agreement, it's the actual work. So based on what you've said, I think it would be fine to pitch it as a new work once you have a completed manuscript to pitch. If you do get interest from an agent, you should just be upfront about the fact that early versions of some sample chapters were posted online previously. Again, I'm neither an agent nor a lawyer.

Edit: I see above that you have been releasing your story in parts. If you do plan to pitch this to a publisher, I recommend that you not put out any more of the story at this time. The more of it is out there, the harder it is to claim as a new, unpublished work.

Posting a chapter or two online is probably fine, but it also won't really help much. It's the literary equivalent of buying a low-odds lottery ticket: throwing out stuff and hoping someone rewards you big for it.

The reason most publishers do not accept fiction proposals from new authors is that, in honest truth, most peopel don't finish the books they start. I could knock together 3 chapters of just about anything and make it sound cool (most people can I think!) but finishing a whole big book is much more than that. In a handful of chapters you can rely on sentence-level craft to carry you, but across a novel you need to be nailing "narrative" craft and story structure. It's a very different skill and also important to learn.

For short stories, I sell them to professional paying markets first and then "reprint" them on my website later.