Publishers that accept ideas which are already "out there"?

lizmonster said:

2. No idea is so original that two books covering it can't exist at the same time. The scenario of a publisher stealing an idea and giving it to a "top novelist" to write just isn't a thing.

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Yes, you are probably right there. I work in a business where you keep everything undercover until the final reveal because anything good (new/interesting) will be "stolen" and used before you can even get your stuff out there. Little vultures all around. It actually happens in the film industry. Some unknown pitches a great idea. The executive says "stupid idea, get out of here, kid," and then turns around and gives the idea to someone in search of an idea.

Probably never happens in writing.

. Yikes, duplicate post!

Kalyke said:

Probably never happens in writing.

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I'm not going to say "never," because I don't know everything.

But most publishers don't contract writers to produce a treatment* for an idea (which I think is more common in film). Most writers are overflowing with their own ideas. And most publishers have a substantive slush pile they could fish from if they really wanted to; they're unlikely to troll small web sites for ideas.

*ETA Having said this, I know at least one person who wrote a cozy mystery series based on a publisher's spec. It's not unknown; it may even, in some genres, be common. But I have never had the sense that theft of ideas for this purpose is common, or at all acceptable in the industry.

It doesn't happen in writing because there's no point, and it's a bad business decision.

If you send in a manuscript and a publisher think you're the next stephen king, it is MUCH more profitable for them to pick you up and get you contracted / producing lots of novels that sell across many years. Milk the cash cow, don't shoot the cash cow.

Stealing a one-hit wonder idea and giving to an author who usually already has their own ideas? What would be the gain? Why risk being sued? This is a lose-lose scenario for a publisher.

It's also detrimental because "debut" status is valuable and marketable in publishing. Being a hot new unpublished author comes with some advantages on all sides.

lizmonster said:

Your work is yours as soon as it's created, unless you explicitly give away your copyright.

The concern about putting work on the web is that it's published at that point, and a lot of publishers prefer first publication rights.

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I assumed first publication rights were part of copyrights; are they just not talked about that way?

I had been waiting until I had need-to-know before digging in to understand the whole publishing / copyright business, but since you got me started... Can anyone direct me to a simple list of the different rights you can sell (or rent?) on your work?

RC turtle said:

I assumed first publication rights were part of copyrights; are they just not talked about that way?

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IANAL, and IAN an agent, but based on my own contract: copyright remains mine, but my publisher has the right to distribute the book in English worldwide. This means if I print my own version of the book and distribute it, I'm violating the contract, because I told them they could have an exclusive on that.

"First publication" has been conflated a bit in this thread. There's the first time a particular piece has been published (and yes, putting it up on your web site counts), and there's the first time a particular author has been published (which isn't really a "right" so much as a marketing thing). Neither of them has anything to do with who holds the copyright.

RC turtle said:

I had been waiting until I had need-to-know before digging in to understand the whole publishing / copyright business, but since you got me started... Can anyone direct me to a simple list of the different rights you can sell (or rent?) on your work?

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Others may have a list. But here's the section of my contract labeled "Reserved Rights retained by Author":

All rights in the Work other than the Rights including reserved dramatic adaptation rights (including motion picture, video, television, radio, live-stage, etc.), commercial tie-in and merchandising rights, comic book adaptation/graphic novel adaptation, multimedia adaptation, and foreign language translation, sequel and prequel (subject to the Option clause), the right to publish a screenplay and/or television script of the Work, and non-exclusive public reading.

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Basically, the only rights I tied up with this contract were worldwide English print rights, and English audiobook. Everything else I'm free to sell to someone else, or exploit myself.

Fundamentally, rights and contracts are one reason it really, really helps to have an agent if you're planning to deal with a publisher, even a small one. A lawyer can help you understand a contract, but unless they specialize in publishing, they're not going to be able to tell you if a contract is exploitative or not. Agents know the terminology, and they know the norms across the industry. It's also their job to protect you, and when you're dealing with a complicated contract (mine was 25 pages, single-spaced), having someone knowledgeable in your corner is invaluable.

Writers retain copyright UNLES they do work for hire, which involves a contract that explicitly says the client has all rights forever.

When you publish, generally the contract will specify which rights you are licensing and for how long.

Copyright means the right to copy, to reproduce and distribute.

Rights to publish may be one time licenses, for instance, an initial publication of a short story. First rights, the right to first publish something, are still important, especially for novels and book-length works. It is common for short stories, essays, articles, poems, to be first published with a limit on time or event; that initial publisher does not have permanent rights for ever. Always check to make sure rights you license are limited by time and or occasion.

The paranoid suspicion that a publisher might reject your work but steal your premise is one that just about every new writer has at some point, but it simply doesn't happen. At least I don't believe so - surely there'd be well publicised accounts of accusations and legal battles if it had.

As for a trade publisher accepting a novel on the basis of an incomplete pitch... I doubt it. Not least as few publishers have the resources to coax a work into being anymore. They expect a writer to produce a near perfect ms that needs only the lightest of edits - and that goes for established authors too.

Having said all that, the first time I had a book accepted, it was only about two thirds done - but that was well over 100k words so they had a pretty good idea of story and quality.

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