Protagonist's agency at climax

(I know my topic here is somewhat geared toward romance, but I sort of wanted a broad look at it, so I'm posting it here if that's OK. I am very interested in romance writers' input though.)

I know how important it is for the protagonist to be the one to act and make choices at the climax. What I'm trying to figure out is: if the story is a romance, is the choice to get together with/commit to the love-interest enough? Does there need to be more? Another principle I've absorbed is that the choice the protagonist makes--specifically at the climax, at the end of the line--needs to be true change, something that can't be taken back. I'm not sure how that works either... what sort of commitment takes it to that level, or whether I shouldn't be thinking of the romantic commitment as the change--whether there must be an internal (or external?) change that goes hand-in-hand with it that feels irreversible.

I have some gender-specific wonderings about this too. Here's where they start: I'm using principles I learned from Storygrid.com that state that all love stories need (in some order & very broadly interpreted) these scenes: Lovers Meet, First Kiss/Intimate Connection of some kind, Confession of Love, Breaking Point, All is Lost, Proof of Love, Lovers Reunite. The example the Story Grid people use for Proof of Love: in Pride and Prejudice, Darcy secretly spends a fortune to preserve Elizabeth's family from social disgrace and Elizabeth finds out. His genuine effort to conceal it makes clear he didn't do it to win her over but only to protect her. That makes it genuine proof of love.

I have something... not at all similar, but containing similar dynamics. My heroine broke it off with my hero due to his vengefulness and his inability to stand up to his family, who turn him back toward that vengefulness when he begins to turn away from it. In the climax, I plan for him to make a public reversal of his wish for vengeance while on the witness stand in court, provoking his watching family's anger. She recognizes that he's genuinely changed and has the courage to make it stick now, so she chooses to reconcile with him.

So this gives me a climax where the hero makes a choice that influences events and heralds a deep change in him, and the heroine makes a choice... to have him in her life. Is this enough? Is this a bad gender disparity? (I guess the model I started with has a built-in gender dynamic. Which can be reversed, but we all know it started with the idea that the man proves his love to the woman.) Or is it normal, because her choice is really as momentous as his?? I don't knoooow...

(I've tossed around some ideas to make her active in influencing the court case as well—its outcome matters to her, she's a witness too but her testimony's quite straightforward, I've pictured her on a mission to find a key witness who's missing… I've even considered setting things up so she has to save his butt from the hostility his actions rouse... but I worry it feels contrived, visibly stuck on there to give her something to do. It's not a fundamental act like his public choice is for him. She does have moments that are fundamental like that... they just come earlier.)

Yes, it's definitely a case where she chose to break up with him over... you could call it a disagreement, but they literally disagreed over whether someone should live or die, so it was a doozy. (And not whether he should live or die in theory either, they both took actions toward their goals.) They're both angry with each other over different things, but what he did was worse... it's essentially a story about forgiveness. Maybe I should have said her choice is to forgive.

And yes, in the story in general she's got plenty to do. She's almost constantly active and definitely saves some lives; it's just that most of that action is subplot rather than plot-related, giving me less for her to do at the climax. It's really just that climactic moment I'm worried about.

Thanks for asking!

angeliz2k said:

Very interesting. And, uh, spoilers! Now I know what Magali gets up to. (That's okay, by the way. Having some clues as to what happens wouldn't ruin any of your lovely writing for me.)

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Oh, thank you. And I'm glad you don't mind spoilers. I hesitated a little thinking of you and the others from Historical SYW, but sometimes I just really need to talk about it with other writers, and it's been so long. Thanks so much for responding. I'm really glad you think this is OK, and your thoughts have helped me think how to focus the lead-up to the climax (which is now the part I'm in.)

angeliz2k said:

I understand why you're a little hesitant, but maybe you can think about it this way: she made the choice in dumping him because she felt he was out of control. That was her exhibiting agency.

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Heh, truth is, it gets a lot more complicated than her just deciding to dump him, but I won't indulge in spoilers that are truly unnecessary. In any case, the one potential issue is that I can say for sure that it's not exactly a considered decision on her part. And it was mutual, in the moment, though I don't think he meant it as much as she did. BUT:

angeliz2k said:

She stuck to her guns; he changed to fit her. It's her choice to take him back now that she sees their viewpoints align better. I like it.

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I like this very much, and whatever ends up coming to me as I write the climax, the lead-up must be focused on this. She does stick to her guns, and that's her real show of iron will within the relationship; I think she's tempted in some ways to take him back but another part of her refuses utterly. I've had in mind for awhile this advice that an older woman gives her (solicited or not, we'll see): Stand where you are, because the place you come together is the place you'll stay. Stand where you are and let him come to you, or not. That's not passivity. And I don't have to portray it as such!

angeliz2k said:

In historical pieces, it can be a bit harder because women didn't have the same range of choices we do now. This is particularly an issue in one WIP of mine. I won't go into all the details, but the FMC experiences sexual assault, and one reader--the only one who's seen this ms--thought she was too passive. I disagree, of course, and think it's perfectly realistic and reasonable for a young girl in her situation to react as she does (retreating into herself until she finds the courage to find herself again). I guess my point is that there is a range of responses and reactions to the world. Not everyone is going to be bold and brave and make Big Things happen. Some people's impact on and interaction with the world is subtler.

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Oh man, do I know what you mean. I had a somewhat similar thing happen with some of my early work--very similar in a lot of ways. I couldn't stop wondering what options these (handful of) people thought my character had. (You're aware she doesn't know any of those high-kicks the Strong Female Characters in the movies do, right?) Sometimes I wonder if real women feel shamed by this stuff sometimes, feel like the world is saying they should just be able to walk it off. But that's a whole nother discussion I guess.

Anyway thanks so much for discussing this with me--it really helps!

frimble3 said:

I love this advice, by the way.

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Oh sweet, I'm glad!

TrapperViper said:

I really like story grid. I built a scene index that incorporates story grid principals, KM Weiland's novel outline, and Save the Cat writes a novel. I'm trying to have all three reconcile with the actual scenes in my novel. The obligatory scenes and conventions and plot points, action beats, etc.

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Yeah, Story Grid's quite good. I use their foundational principles more than the actual grid itself--at least so far, we'll see when I get to editing this one. One of the reasons I picked it up was because they explain some of the principles from Story by Robert McKee which I was having real trouble understanding. McKee is a genius, but boy, there's some things I just can't understand the way he explains them. I just wished I could raise my hand and ask a question. But Story is great anyway, really recommended.

TrapperViper said:

I'm considering adding a column for Carl Jung's hero's journey too.

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Is that different from Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, or the same? (It is pretty Jungian, gotta say...) Yeah, I really like the Hero's Journey. I also looked into the Heroine's Journey for this female-led novel and got some really good ideas from it, though it doesn't do to follow this particular model of it overly closely b/c the person who created it (Maureen Murdoch) was a psychologist and it's not created for storytelling, more for real life. Some parts are really resonant but the ending seems too straightforward for my taste.

TrapperViper said:

Does your romance have a love triangle? I thought I remember that being a convention of a romance. Maybe I'm wrong...

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No, you're right if I remember rightly (well to be exact I think they said a romantic rival should be included--it might not come to full-fledged love triangle b/c it might be someone she's not actually into but who still seems possible for some reason, someone her family's pushing on her maybe) and I'd planned to put it in and it just hasn't worked out, so I guess I'm bucking convention on that one. I think they might have said that occasionally the rival might be more of an idea--something in someone's life that they might choose over their lover. I do have that.

TrapperViper said:

I haven't heard of Robert McKee, I'll check him out. Thanks for the reference.

My understanding is that Jung and Campbell worked together on evaluating all the myths across cultures, the world, and over thousands of years and identified the consistent aspects of story telling and believe that those elements of metaphores and structure speak to the nature of humanity/human condition.

https://academyofideas.com/2016/06/joseph-campbell-myth-of-the-heros-journey/


This process, of learning how to tell a story, sure is remarkably rewarding....

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It really is, isn't it? & thank you for the link--it's really good! Still reading it...

Revisiting this now. No... she's got to do something. Part of the issue is that forgiving him is the obvious choice once he reverses the part of his behavior she had a problem with. We'd all be very mad at her if she didn't make that choice, because we know (I'm currently writing lots of stuff that shows it) that she still longs for him despite her anger and her determination not to compromise. It's not enough of a dilemma. To put it in one way, I think that within the Hero's Journey it's the Return with the Elixir--the end, the denouement--not the Resurrection, which is the stage before it, the final test.

It's partly in remembering what the Resurrection stage was like in my last novel that I've felt uncomfortable with this one. There was so much more to it. In terms of choice and change. And it took me a long time to put the pieces together. What I remember of the chapter on the Resurrection in Christopher Vogler's book on the Hero's Journey is, "It's hard to explain what this is, because it's the part of the book that's the most mysterious and complex. Keep searching till you find something truly special." I'm not at all sure that's what he said but it's definitely what I took away.

I don't have all the pieces of this current one yet, but I think I just found a few more. Now I know the trial has to be a big cathartic moment of public forgiveness by multiple characters (btw I know this sounds like it would be shut down in a courtroom but the judicial system I'm working with here is less strict about admissibility of personal stuff), and shouldn't be needlessly complicated by anyone's derring-do, not even the protagonist's. And I know that she has to take some kind of defining action and choice before the trial. I even have an idea for what that is, but my problem is that at this point what I have sounds silly. Maybe it won't once I put a few more pieces in place...