Outrage mounts over report Russia offered bounties to Afghanistan militants for killing US soldiers

Putin is good for Trump, and that’s all Trump cares about.

And soldiers are expendable. They're easier to use for political means when they're dead anyway.

Wow. This could be the big one that finally takes him down.

Pastelnudes said:

Wow. This could be the big one that finally takes him down.

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What? Why?

Americans know their soldiers die in Afghanistan regularly. US soldiers all over the world likely have bounties on them from all kinds of sources, and the US government likely has dealings with most of those sources in some way or another.

Russia has remained in the view of Americans as a wary ally at best, but the cold work rhetoric of Russia as the great evil of the world is obviously over, and most of Trump's supporters are more than happy to stand with their President when he uses the deaths of soldiers for political reasons.

Pastelnudes said:

Wow. This could be the big one that finally takes him down.

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I think the 35-40% of those polled who still support the man do so out of some combination of living in a bubble of truly fake news (and therefore disbelieving this actually happened); being willing to put up with literally any behavior that gets Roe v. Wade overturned in the Supreme Court; and enjoying that he hates the people they hate.

If they haven’t abandoned him yet, this won’t do it.

Pastelnudes said:

Wow. This could be the big one that finally takes him down.

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People have been saying that since the Access Hollywood tape in 2016. No luck yet.

As if we needed more evidence than Trump's hostility to NATO that he is in Putin's pocket.

I'm sure his supporters, and his lackeys in the Senate, are already full of denials or explanations of why this isn't really a problem, or accusations that his predecessors (especially Obama--with them it's always Obama) did something that is "equivalent."

This is from another forum, I'll have to find the link to credit the author:

Walter Shaub Tweeted

@waltshaub
Let's pretend for one minute that Trump is not lying when he says he didn't know about the Russians putting a bounty on U.S. personnel. (He did.) If he only learned this week (he didn't), why isn't he announcing what action he's taking in response? (He's not taking any.)

Pastelnudes said:

Wow. This could be the big one that finally takes him down.

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Nah....

Nice thought, though.

Sigh. The nightmare that just keeps on giving.

[h=1]Russia offered bounty to kill UK soldiers[/h]

jennontheisland said:

What? Why?

Americans know their soldiers die in Afghanistan regularly. US soldiers all over the world likely have bounties on them from all kinds of sources, and the US government likely has dealings with most of those sources in some way or another.

Russia has remained in the view of Americans as a wary ally at best, but the cold work rhetoric of Russia as the great evil of the world is obviously over, and most of Trump's supporters are more than happy to stand with their President when he uses the deaths of soldiers for political reasons.

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You seem to be confusing covert operators (like spies), who are political with soldiers, who are military. I don't understand why you can't see how major this is. It would be bad enough if Russian soldiers were killing US soldiers. An act of war, in a way! But for the US president to have tacitly endorsed it...

As for Putin: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about him in the US. In Europe, we don't so readily fall for this idea of him as some sort of necessary evil who has done a lot of good for Russia. A 'gentleman dictator'.

Putin invaded Crimea! It was only a few years ago. That's one of the reasons Russia was kicked out of the G7 group, along with murdering dissidents, human rights infringements etc.

This article in Vanity Fair recently explains it well

"A proposed constitutional amendment in Russia could see Vladimir Putin, already twenty years in power, extend his Presidency to 2036."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/disp...ions-himself-to-become-russias-eternal-leader

So that's what Trump's been talking to Putin about during their cosy chats!

Roxxsmom said:

As if we needed more evidence than Trump's hostility to NATO that he is in Putin's pocket.

I'm sure his supporters, and his lackeys in the Senate, are already full of denials or explanations of why this isn't really a problem, or accusations that his predecessors (especially Obama--with them it's always Obama) did something that is "equivalent."

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Yes, his lackeys in the Senate are pretty much beyond saving imo. By which I mean, Americans can no longer hope for assistance, or even decency, from them.

Looking on the bright side, politicians who are corrupt like that should be easier to get rid of than idealogues.

If a politician believes only in themselves, they can switch allegiances. It's my belief that, very soon, your country will reach its tipping point regarding Trump.

One of those senators will finally realise they're on the losing side.

Then another.

They'll fall like dominoes, and Trump will, in an instant, become untouchable.

As I said before, I personally think today's Putin revelation could be it.

I've never said, 'This is it' before btw.

And I'm ever so sorry for you!

We in the UK are being governed by Trump wannabee Boris Johnson, so...

I don't understand why you can't see how major this is.

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Every single one of us understands how major this is.

We also understand the odds it'll make a single bit of difference to the people who could actually make change.

Nope, I'm not:
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/05/international/al-qaeda-offers-bounty-for-us-soldiers.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39014669/...ort-iran-pays-each-us-soldier-killed-taliban/

There have been bounties on US soldiers for a long time. A former member of the military in my country told me once that it's a bit of a dark inside joke among soldiers in UN postings he was on (granted 10-15 years ago, but still) that there's money to be made from knocking off members of the US crews....

And yes, I know Putin invaded Crimea. And yes, I know Putin is looking to be dictator for life, and yes, I know Trump is looking to him for tips and tricks, and doing a bang up job of setting himself up for it. I don't think there's much in the way of misunderstanding Putin in the US, except maybe from Trump supporters. I'm not there though, so can't really go about polling Americans for opinions on this for you.

I'm also not sure why you expect that this little nugget will do anything in America. Trumps base of support is more than happy for him to use dead soldiers for political means, and he's done all kinds of things to date that should have gotten him removed from office, but keep thinking that the tipping point is close (maybe the American love of "thoughts and prayers" will actually work). I'm looking forward to see how the military responds to him barricading himself in the oval office after he's voted out.

I listened to 2 John Bolton interviews this morning. One with Chuck Todd, one with Jake Tapper. I am no Bolton fan but I think he did make the one point that may...I hesitate to even say might... open a couple of GOP eyes. Bolton pointed out more than once that most of what Trump does, says, blusters and tweets is not well thought out, informed, logical, financially based or party consistent. Like General Bullmoose, in his small mind he is the USA, the part of the country that counts is in lockstep with him and will love every thing he does. what is good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA.

Unlike more intelligent despots, Trump has no plan for America. He has a dimwitted goal to earn more and more craven adulation from whoever is even angrier and more ill informed than he. Bolton made the point that Trump has the attention span of a six month old puppy.

Bolton gave the example that on any given day someone--anyone who is in favor at the time-- might suggest to Trump that IF he replaces the next Supreme Court Justice with a liberal, he will go down in history as the man who heroically balanced the SCOTUS. Not because he is out to betray for the liberal's favor but because the decision might put him in a history book. And above all he wants to be revered. This sounds credible to me. And I believe that it is beginning to sound credible to many of his senatorial allies.

They have all witnessed his bewildering turn arounds. Maybe they attributed them to political genius-- at first. But this last thing (for 3.m. CDT, 6-28 -20. I have not listened to the news since Chuck Todd, Chris Wallace and Jake Tapper- the Russian Bounty Thing.) could be the last switchback, the turn into the corner of no return. Nothing worse for a party than a self absorbed narcissist who is too stupid to follow the popular cues .. Whether this is true or not, it will peel away a few more Trump basers. And there are not many left.

Bolton's point is not that Trump is evil but that he is stupid. The kind of stupid that that can no longer be useful to the GOP.

jennontheisland said:

Nope, I'm not:
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/05/international/al-qaeda-offers-bounty-for-us-soldiers.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39014669/...ort-iran-pays-each-us-soldier-killed-taliban/

There have been bounties on US soldiers for a long time. A former member of the military in my country told me once that it's a bit of a dark inside joke among soldiers in UN postings he was on (granted 10-15 years ago, but still) that there's money to be made from knocking off members of the US crews....

And yes, I know Putin invaded Crimea. And yes, I know Putin is looking to be dictator for life, and yes, I know Trump is looking to him for tips and tricks, and doing a bang up job of setting himself up for it. I don't think there's much in the way of misunderstanding Putin in the US, except maybe from Trump supporters. I'm not there though, so can't really go about polling Americans for opinions on this for you.

I'm also not sure why you expect that this little nugget will do anything in America. Trumps base of support is more than happy for him to use dead soldiers for political means, and he's done all kinds of things to date that should have gotten him removed from office, but keep thinking that the tipping point is close (maybe the American love of "thoughts and prayers" will actually work). I'm looking forward to see how the military responds to him barricading himself in the oval office after he's voted out.

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I do believe Putin's goal would be to increase American deaths putting pressure on the US (or giving Trump an excuse) to withdraw troops.

Sadly, Afghanistan has been bouncing back and forth between US and Russian intervention since the 70s. When the Taliban was in control it was a nightmare for women. There is no good answer about intervention at the moment. We did not do a good job when Bush invaded the last time. We might have pushed the Taliban back, a good thing, but we didn't offer much to replace them.

Bush built the Laura Bush Maternity hospital. Pregnancy and childbirth is the leading cause of death for women in Afghanistan. Unfortunately it seemed to be more for show than anything else as no funds were given for supplies and staff. I don't know what the current status of that hospital is now. Hopefully it's gotten better since the Bush administration.

Sorry, I'm off track.

Both the Guardian and the original link show Russia funding the Taliban, not offering direct contracts as the headlines seem to imply.

Which makes me wonder: Why are these headlines about soldiers instead of "state funded terrorism"? That seems like it would get more attention, especially from the right, than there being bounties on the heads of soldiers that belong to the dominant militaries of the world. Or is the war on terror over?

I'm inclined to follow the money on most things Trump. I do think he's swayed by promises of glory, but there will always be money as an additional underlying driver (if not to/for Trump directly then the ones attempting the swaying).

jennontheisland said:

Nope, I'm not:
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/05/international/al-qaeda-offers-bounty-for-us-soldiers.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39014669/...ort-iran-pays-each-us-soldier-killed-taliban/

There have been bounties on US soldiers for a long time. A former member of the military in my country told me once that it's a bit of a dark inside joke among soldiers in UN postings he was on (granted 10-15 years ago, but still) that there's money to be made from knocking off members of the US crews....

And yes, I know Putin invaded Crimea. And yes, I know Putin is looking to be dictator for life, and yes, I know Trump is looking to him for tips and tricks, and doing a bang up job of setting himself up for it. I don't think there's much in the way of misunderstanding Putin in the US, except maybe from Trump supporters. I'm not there though, so can't really go about polling Americans for opinions on this for you.

I'm also not sure why you expect that this little nugget will do anything in America. Trumps base of support is more than happy for him to use dead soldiers for political means, and he's done all kinds of things to date that should have gotten him removed from office, but keep thinking that the tipping point is close (maybe the American love of "thoughts and prayers" will actually work). I'm looking forward to see how the military responds to him barricading himself in the oval office after he's voted out.

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* Gives a friendly wave *

Respectfully, I can't read the first link (without paying a subscription). But these articles aren't really relevant. Yes, there have apparantly been bounties on soldiers' heads for years. But not with their own government's (implied) approval!

Trump taking no action is really the same as saying it's acceptable.

lizmonster said:

Every single one of us understands how major this is.

We also understand the odds it'll make a single bit of difference to the people who could actually make change.

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God knows, it must be have been difficult for Americans to have lived through all those false dawns.

But the BLM protests are different. They've spread around the world, in a way no-one could have foreseen. The movement doesn't give a f * * * about Trump. It bypasses him! Ignores him. It's beautiful to see.

Okay. You keep smiling.



I'm going to wait until I see something actually change.

I will

And, one day soon, I'll do this

I really, truly hope you're right and this time it's different.

It's just I've lived through an awful lot of "this time it's different"s in my life. I've learned it's not possible to be sufficiently cynical about all of this.

Someday I'll be wrong. I hope it's now. If not now, I hope it's soon. I'm pretty sure, though, I won't live to see the day.

lizmonster said:

I really, truly hope you're right and this time it's different.

It's just I've lived through an awful lot of "this time it's different"s in my life. I've learned it's not possible to be sufficiently cynical about all of this.

Someday I'll be wrong. I hope it's now. If not now, I hope it's soon. I'm pretty sure, though, I won't live to see the day.

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Ah, I'm so sorry you think that's a possibility.