Should a YA Protag Listen to Elderly Advice?

Emissarius · Jun 25, 2020

Whenever I read articles on what sets YA apart (from, say, MG), they mention that the MC usually prefers talking to her friends rather than put up with advice and pep talks from older characters or mentor figures, that it's in the nature of teens to have little or no patience for old people giving them advice. Does your MC react differently? Can you think of YA protags who are cool with that? This is a huge concern for my WIP cause my story was originally MG, so it had lots of instances where the MC listens to his elders give a piece of wisdom that he really takes to heart (think Chiron or Dumbledore giving advice to Harry Potter and Percy Jackson). Now that I've turned it into YA, should I do away with those instances because the MC is a teenager who's supposed to find all that advice annoying? I still haven't decided the MC's age. He's definitely not gonna be older than 15 cause the story is nowhere near as violent or edgy as, say, the Hunger Games or Divergent. If it were up to me, I'd start the story with him being 13 and then he can maybe turn 14 halfway through. I imagine an MC on the younger side of YA would be less likely to brush off elderly advice.

Darn thing is, nobody seems to recommend 14 yo protagonists, and 13 is technically upper MG, which wouldn't work for me cause my story is a bit more mature than that. For those interested, below are a few articles about the 14 yo problem:

http://project-middle-grade-mayhem.blogspot.com/2014/09/age-14-no-mans-land-between-mg-and-ya.html

https://eleanorglewwe.com/2014/10/15/the-14-year-old-middle-grade-protagonist/

https://bookpage.com/the-book-case/17415-teen-characters-its-not-easy-being-14#.XvUWqWbbeIE

https://www.fuseliterary.com/2017/05/01/the-problem-with-14-year-old-protagonists/

mellymel · Jun 25, 2020

All I can say is there is no one size fits all when it comes to teens (or any group of people). Everyone's circumstance is different. Every teen has unique and typical behaviors that make them who they are. Not all teens are the same. Not all teens find (all) adults annoying. If it works for the story you are telling then I don't see why it would be an issue. Teens come in all shapes, sizes, colors, gender preferences, and attitudes.

Roxxsmom · Jun 25, 2020

It really depends on the personality of the teen and on the circumstances. Teens do listen to adults sometimes, and a few haven't a rebellious bone in their bodies. Even when I was young, I knew a few people who would sanctimoniously remind the rest of us, when we complained about our parents, that our parents did know what was best.

There are going to be cultural differences here too. Not every culture, or family, takes takes teen rebellion to be developmentally normal--or maybe young adult rebellion is more subtle in some cultures than in others.

Teen aged me, I would have rather died than admit one of my parents was right about something in the middle of an argument. But later on, when I'd mulled things over, sometimes their judgements or advice made more sense. And of course there are other adults besides parents who serve as role models. Teens are often more inclined to listen to favorite teachers, coaches, youth group leaders, or to favorite aunts or uncles, or grandparents, or much older siblings, than they are to their parents.

For story purposes, it's about making the situation plausible and about the role it plays in character development, plot advancement and so on.

frimble3 · Jun 25, 2020

You have to figure that most YA seems to be about teenagers getting into trouble - if they asked older, more experienced, people they wouldn't have adventures. Even ol' Uncle Jimmy, who was a wild boy in his youth, might have enough sense to stop a couple of kids going into that spooky old house at night. Or stop his favourite niece from running off with the town bad-boy.

I think you have to think about the adults offering the advice, and how it's offered.
If it's a trusted, respected adult offering advice from their own experience, it's probably going to be better received than more nagging from the grownup who always nags.

And, they're kids - in case of emergency, they'll probably listen to the nearest loud, firm voice. If it's one of their own, rather than a terrified teacher, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

be frank · Jun 25, 2020

I think you're asking the wrong question. You shouldn't be asking us: "Should A YA protag listen to elderly advice?" You should be asking yourself: "Would MY YA protag listen to elderly advice?"

FWIW, there are plenty of YAs where parental/adult figures fulfill this role (the first one that comes to my mind is Laura Steven's "The Exact Opposite of Okay," where the MC's grandmother is a huge source of wisdom and comfort).

Also, if you're only not writing an older MC because you think that means your book has to be 'edgy and violent' like The Hunger Games/Divergent, I suspect you need to read more YA.

Bing Z · Jun 26, 2020

Agree with them all. No one size fits them all solution. But whatever your teen MC does, make it true to the character.

There are several criteria to make a book YA; age is one of them. Typically a YA book covers teen MCs from 15 to 18. You maybe able to get around with a little bit, but 13 going on 14? I do not think so. Another is theme; and if you convert a MG book to YA, you need to adjust the theme accordingly as well. There are plenty of YA stories with 17/18 yo characters that are completely non violent. You need to get yourself more acquainted with the marketing category before you make the plunge.

Sage · Jun 26, 2020

There are two actual questions here: the response for the character and the response for the story.

As be frank says, whether your character would listen to advice from an adult is something that should be built into them. It's not as simple as to say, "teenagers don't listen to adults" because teenagers aren't all of one mind. Look at this character and decide what they would do.

On the other hand, you do have to look to expectations for the YA category. Can a YA MC get guidance from an adult? Sure. Can that guidance lead them astray or help them out? Yep. But can that guidance solve the book? I wouldn't recommend it. The audience has to feel like the MC earned their ending, so you have to make sure that any advice from an adult doesn't feel like the only reason the MC wins.

And, yes, I've definitely seen 14yo (and even 13yo) protags as a hard sell.

Emissarius · Jun 27, 2020

I admit my story would be better served as an upper MG for the first two books, and YA for the third+ (I've outlined five books so far). That way, the MC can start out as 13.

It's just that, if I write the first two books as an upper MG with every intention of turning the story into YA by book 3 and up, it'll feel... wrong. Dishonest, even! You see, there aren't enough examples to show us that transitioning your story from one age group to another is okay, especially MG to YA. If u look at Percy Jackson, the MC does age beyond 14 at some point, reaching 16 by the end, but did the tone of the story (or the length of any of the five books) vary drastically? No. Percy Jackson remained firmly MG in all five books. I've never heard of a single parent or teacher saying they had difficulty letting their kids/ students read the fourth or fifth book. The same humor and goofiness in book one was present in the last book, which only got slightly darker with that climactic Luke Castelan scene.

Of course, there's Harry Potter, but we're all aware of how many complications the MG-to-YA conversion has caused for kids. I've personally known people with 8-10 yo kids who devoured the first 3 or 4 HP books only for their parents to make them wait a year or two to read the rest. The sudden introduction of YA elements, darkness, and edginess is in fact one of the few things that most agents and editors don't recommend you model after Harry Potter. And like I said, there just hasn't been that many other titles who did that. I've been reading MG and YA consistently since 2012 and all the series I've completed were either MG or YA, never MG-turned-YA. I can think of a few examples like Keeper of the Lost Cities, which I assume becomes YA cause the MC is 13 in the first book (the only one I've read) and the covers of the 8 other books seem to depict her as more mature. But that's really it as far as I know.

Fuchsia Groan · Jun 28, 2020

I think what Sage said is key. The MC can receive advice from adults or not, and accept or reject it, depending on the needs of the story. While my MC in The Glare is alienated from both her parents in a very teenage way, she likes her stepmother and does listen to her advice.

But in a YA book, that advice can’t solve the MC’s conflict. It might help inspire a solution, but the actual solution must come from the MC, often with help from the supporting teen cast. My feeling is that in YA books, the reader has to know the problems are too big to be solved by the adults in the MC’s life. Sometimes those adults even caused the problems and have to be vanquished in some way. There has to be a strong sense of the MC standing on their own and learning to evaluate advice and potential mentors based on what they know of the world firsthand. MG books sometimes also convey this sense of independence, but it’s key to YA books.

Thinking about something like Star Wars might be helpful. Luke certainly listens to Ben and Yoda, but he resists or fails to understand parts of their teaching, and when it’s time to act, he’s very much on his own and does make mistakes that he and his friends then have to solve. The conflict is too big and complicated to be resolved by just following advice.

Should a YA Protag Listen to Elderly Advice?

Emissarius

mellymel

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

be frank

not a bloke, not named frank

Bing Z

illiterate primate

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

Emissarius

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid