Would this phrasing be designated as incorrect grammar?

Tazlima

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My day job involves proofreading a lot of reports, and I keep running into one particular issue that may not even be an issue, but it's bugging me and I'm having trouble finding a solid answer.

"Designated as"

For example:

"The three houses were designated as H-1, H-2, and H-3."

My first instinct is to remove the "as."

"The three houses were designated H-1, H-2, and H-3."

However, instinct can't always be trusted, and it could be that my version is wrong, or that BOTH are fine. Or perhaps there's a difference between using "designate" for naming vs. categorizing? (e.g. The three houses were designated as the boundaries of the block party).

Or is "designated as" in the same family as "comprised of," where the extra word definitely shouldn't be there and is simply a common error?
 
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Maryn

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Hm, interesting question. My gut says to delete the unnecessary word even if it's not an outright mistake. But my gut has been known to make goofs. (Yes, I was shocked, too.)

Merriam-Webster.com differentiates designate from designate as. (Good, I really didn't want to have to get up and go to the room where CMOS lives.) Designate involves indicating and setting apart for a specific purpose, while designate as requires choosing that which will serve a specific purpose. Subtle, but not quite the same.

Maryn, questioning the term designated driver all of a sudden
 

stephenf

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I believe it is a common usage situation , rather than a written and unarguable rule . Designated or designated as, is more or less the same .I think you could argue micro details . The designated driver is , because there are other divers to chose from . Or , the designated driver was , because the other drivers were asleep at the time of the crash.
 

Tazlima

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Okay, I've tried to wrap my head around this, and I think I've worked it out.

1) "Designate" in the sense of "assigning."

It would be a question of the focus of the discussion, right?


"These three houses are designated as the boundaries for the block party."
(Focus is on the need for boundaries).

"These three houses are designated the boundaries of the block party."
(Focus is on which houses will be selected).

2) And in the case of using "designate" in the sense of "naming," it would never need the "as," because the focus at that point is always on the items being named?

"These houses will be designated Boundaries A, B, and C."

Is that about right?
 
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Woollybear

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I wondered about it a little yesterday too. Does it make sense if 'designate' is a sort-of-synonym for 'name?'

1. He was named Geoff.

2. He was named as leader of the armies.

? I think that fits Maryn's distinction, and clearly a person would never say He was named as Geoff. So, your inclination to remove 'as' in the first post is correct, since H1, H2, H3 are essentially names.

The second option--that one my ear can 'hear' in either way. I guess that gets to stephenf's point about usage. In other words, I think yes--I agree with you in post #4.
 
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Tazlima

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I wondered about it a little yesterday too. Does it make sense if 'designate' is a sort-of-synonym for 'name?'

1. He was named Geoff.

2. He was named as leader of the armies.

? I think that fits Maryn's distinction, and clearly a person would never say He was named as Geoff. So, your inclination to remove 'as' in the first post is correct, since H1, H2, H3 are essentially names.

The second option--that one my ear can 'hear' in either way. I guess that gets to stephenf's point about usage. In other words, I think yes--I agree with you in post #4.

This is perfect! A simple word substitution to use as a grammar check is exactly what I needed! It even works in your second example, because if you remove the "as," the inclination would be to capitalize the rest. "He was named 'Leader of the Armies.'"

Thanks so much to everybody who responded. This has been bugging me for weeks, and now I not only have a solution, but an easy way to explain it to others.
 

BigJ1

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English is a funny language, isn't it? I appreciate what everyone has said from their research but it seems like it really could be either phrase, depending on situation. For instance, it's appropriate to say "This beach is designated as the boundary of the arena." But it's also appropriate to say "I am the designated driver." Perhaps the modifier of "the" is the difference here. Far be it from me to pass judgement. I think most readers overlook stuff like this honestly.
 

Maryn

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Amen. Authors and editors are the only ones who care. (And we care so damned much!)
 

RC turtle

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“English is a funny language, isn't it?” — BigJ1

I hear this kind of thing a lot, and I'm not fluent in any other languages, but I have a hard time believing this is an English language thing and not just a human language thing. Is it?
 

Tazlima

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“English is a funny language, isn't it?” — BigJ1

I hear this kind of thing a lot, and I'm not fluent in any other languages, but I have a hard time believing this is an English language thing and not just a human language thing. Is it?

All languages have their quirks, but English is definitely in a class apart from the "odd language" point of view.

Case in point - spelling tests in elementary school are by no means universal, because in many languages, words are consistently spelled the way they're pronounced.
 

RC turtle

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Funny, that's something I hadn't heard in years until just a few days ago someone mentioned wanting to switch over to consistent phonetic spelling. I personally think that would be a shame, because spelling can give a clue what language we imported a word from, in turn hinting at what a new word means. Besides, different people pronounce the same word differently, so I'm not sure how much that would help.
Figures of speech, though, idioms, things like that - have to be a universal phenomenon, don't they?
 

stephenf

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“English is a funny language, isn't it?” — BigJ1

I hear this kind of thing a lot, and I'm not fluent in any other languages, but I have a hard time believing this is an English language thing and not just a human language thing. Is it?

There are lots of languages out there , so in truth no one can answer that question . The problem with English is it is an amalgam of every language in the world going back for thousands of years. Most of the words we use are pushed and are made to fit , even if they don't . I speak some Hindi . Despite being invaded by a large number of races over a long period of time , Hindi has not been corrupted by other languages, except for some English words . The script is totally phonetic. Spelling is not a problem in Hindi.
 

BigJ1

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This thread has really got me thinking! Especially the idea of English being an amalgam. While other languages may be spoken more in terms of population, English really is like the "common" language of our species. It's used as a blanket of understanding in so many places where English isn't the first language. It makes sense that it would be affected by the quirks of all other languages that make it up, and are adjacent to it through simultaneous use across the world. Of course it's weird!I mean, look at that damn word. W E I R D. Why not weerd? Why not wierd? Wheered? Wered? We would say all of these the same in English, but WEIRD is the proper spelling. Bunch of freaking weirdos.