Appropriating Other People's History?

Girlsgottawrite

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Maybe I'm selling out, maybe I'm being a coconut (brown on the outside, white on the inside), maybe I'm stealing someone else's culture. Maybe I'm prioritizing my own happiness over telling stories about the culture where I was raised, and this is the same way non-ethnic authors feel when they write stories about other people's cultures.

That would be an awfully unfair accusation for anyone to make.

I'm Irish-Italian. I could give a ---- about writing books about Irish and Italian people or cities. My current book is set in the south, in the state where I live, because that's what I feel comfortable writing and that's what makes me happy. Screw everyone else! :)

Actually reading up on #ownvoices does dispell a lot of the slippery slope issues.
Like I said, I think #ownvoices is a really important movement. I'm a huge fantasy nerd and was floored by Tomi Adeyemi's Children of Blood and Bone partially because it was so different from the typical euro-blah-blah fantasy I'm used to. I REALLY want to see more books like that! I only worry about it because, as a culture, we Americans have a tendency to take things to the extreme, and I think this would be harmful to everyone.
 
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RC turtle

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. If I had to write something #ownvoices, it would feel like an assignment, a duty, rather than fun. And I would constantly walk a mental line, wondering if I was making those countries and cultures appear bad in any way.
And this is another hurdle; As a member of the dominant culture, you're free to criticize whatever bugs you about it. You don't have to worry that some (lots of) people will take it as a sweeping condemnation of the culture as a whole and weaponize it.

Sometimes we really want to make certain people understand how others might feel, but we can leave the specifics up to the people who know how they do feel. We have other options.
 

mccardey

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I think it can be a slippery slope.I'm sure that many POC authors want to write books that incorporate their culture and experiences, but not all do. Just because a person is Chinese-American, for example, doesn't mean they should only be able to write books about Chinese culture. That's the problem as I see it. #Ownvoices is important, but we also have to be careful we're not pigion-holding any groups into only portraying their own race or culture.
It's really not that proscriptive. It's about seeing how privilege exists in the world, and being aware of the part we all play. It's a chance to make some of the changes we all say we want to see made.
 

frimble3

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I'm a cis white Canadian, but I think I get it.
How would it feel if a white writer wrote about a previously uninteresting event, with a POC MC, and it was a big success. Then, a POC wrote it as an own-story, same event, different POV, it was successful, but not as much as the first one, which had novelty going for it, and then the second, POC author was accused of jumping on the band-wagon, of cruising to success on the coat-tails of Book One.
That would be infuriating, especially as, with the long lead-times in publishing, both might have been in the works at the same time.
 

musicblind

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Please don't apologize! If you strayed off-topic, it was only to take us down a necessary road. These things need to be discussed, and people need to be heard. The worst thing a person can waste is a chance to speak out.

I went back and read your posts. I think we agree on a great deal. Even if we're not on the exact same sentence, we're definitely on the same page. We're both angry and frustrated that marginalized voices are being denied their spot in the marketplace. We both agree there needs to be a fix and that the fix needs to come from both #OwnVoices and top-down sources.

I personally think the top-down approach is where we'll find the true cure. Focusing on #OwnVoices helps, but it's like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. It covers the hole, but the problem goes deeper.

One suggestion:

Have you heard of inclusion riders?

An inclusion rider is a provision in an actor/filmmaker's contract requiring a specified amount of diversity hiring before they'll agree to sign. For example, imagine if Stephen King said, "I'd love to sell you my new book, but first—let's talk about marginalized writers."

Inclusion riders are mostly a thing in the film industry, but given how systemic this problem is, maybe they should become a thing in the publishing industry, too?

Of course, most authors could never ask for inclusion riders, but neither can most actors. That kind of change always comes from the very tippy-top of the mountain. Because a handful of writers carry the industry on their coattails, a lint roller could go a long way.

What are your thoughts on this idea? Is it even a possibility or a pipe dream?

I hope something like that happens soon because I genuinely believe this problem will never be solved until we have proportional representation. As you said, people want to tell their stories; they're just waiting for their chance to speak out.

I agree with fix the number. But to fix that number, one must first fix the #ownvoices and #culturalappropriation issues. Let POC writers tell their stories first. And should another want to retell those stories, then due diligence and all that.

But that will never come about if #ownvoices are drowned out by non-ethnic writers who perpetuate the belief that they are the ones who need to write #ownvoices stories, otherwise such accounts will not be told. Or, non-ethnic writers #appropriateculture not their own and manipulate it to their ends. Neither of these actions serve those who want to equalize the playing field.

A solution? Do not #appropriateculture not one's own. Rather, let's call it what it is: Do not steal culture that is not one's own -- modern day or historical.

I'm sorry; I've strayed off topic again.
 
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Snitchcat

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I went back and read your posts. I think we agree on a great deal. Even if we're not on the exact same sentence, we're definitely on the same page. We're both angry and frustrated that marginalized voices are being denied their spot in the marketplace. We both agree there needs to be a fix and that the fix needs to come from both #OwnVoices and top-down sources.

I personally think the top-down approach is where we'll find the true cure. Focusing on #OwnVoices helps, but it's like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. It covers the hole, but the problem goes deeper.

I agree we're on the same page; I think we're approaching this problem from two different angles. :) Although, a "sandwich" strategy might actually work well. :)

One suggestion:

Have you heard of inclusion riders?

Not in the context suggested. However, would that it could be true! I believe it would make a lot of difference and push change where it's needed most. Wonder who would actually help implement such a solution?

I hope something like that happens soon because I genuinely believe this problem will never be solved until we have proportional representation. As you said, people want to tell their stories; they're just waiting for their chance to speak out.

Not sure that we're waiting, per se. It's more we're trying, but being mostly ignored.
 

llyralen

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I really struggle with both sides of this. I think what I decide with each story has to do with the purpose of that story. Is the purpose to represent the experience of a group? How would they feel if what I wrote didn’t capture their experience? I think my views are still evolving because we are also discussing history. I don’t feel bad writing a story about an ancient Egyptian, for instance, because nobody is basing their understanding of that culture just on mh book thinking that I did legitimately experience that culture, but what about recent happenings? I think it depends on how well you understand the situation. Is the story very sensitive is another question. Would people be offended at me trying to understand? And would I be able to understand?

I realized I wouldn’t feel comfortable to tell a story that is only from a different ethnic background than mine… even though I am very interested in slave experiences and American Indian experiences I do feel like that isn’t my story to tell no matter how well-researched because it feels like there would always be something that the person who is closer to it knows that I can’t know. And that knowledge would be the point of telling the story, really. You want to hear that different point of view, the one that only the people who lived it can give us.

However, I do feel comfortable creating whole books that include points of view from different ethnicities, backgrounds and races to create diversity in the books. So I have a book where one of the main characters is African American in the 1970’s. The purpose of the book seems different with this. In the first kind of book I would be a fraud who could never really know. In the second kind of book I attempt to show a more real and diverse world where there are many voices. I think it would seem wrong not to attempt to create a world that isn’t diverse as well. I also would hope to get beta readers from those groups to see if it is in the realm of possibility and get more insight.

These are just the lines I have drawn personally for myself in the book I am writing right now.
 
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Putputt

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I just want to throw in here that this not a recent development. Back at the end of the 1980s, I found an incredible story about a young Catholic priest in the 1950s who was sent to support an Aboriginal man sentenced to hang for the rape and murder of an eight year old girl. He had admitted the murder, and his statement had been taken down verbatim by the police, and it was only when this priest tried to hear his confession that he realised the man didn't speak English. He requested the interpreter to come and help and was told that there had been no interpreter when the confession was taken. That threw him, and he kept asking questions until it became very clear that this conviction was utterly baseless - everything about it, including the description of where the murder had occurred - was entirely wrong. I found the priest (who was still living) and ended up with a three-part mini-series funded and ready to start production through the ABC when their just-created Aboriginal Unit stymied it by saying No. No that's our story. It will only be told once, and it's ours to tell.

God it hurt at the time - it looked like being the start of a very good career for a 20-something bright-eyed little screen-writer - but I will never regret that I surrendered it with good grace. It was their story - even though it had been lost for 30+ years, and even though I had been telling it from the white Priest's POV.

Just saying there are worse things than losing a good story.

Wow, what an incredible account, Mccardey. Not many people would have been as respectful and humane as you were.

I agree, research, empathy and beta readers are important. But part of the issue I don't think we can ignore is the question of *who* ultimately gets to tell the stories of marginalized people? Who gets the recognition, prestige, and money from these stories? Marginalized people (by definition) have historically been locked out of telling their own stories, so no matter how empathetic, accurate, and sensitive the author is, if you aren't part of the group whose story you're telling, I think there is an element of appropriation. Sadly, the reality of publishing mean there are a limited number of slots and a real risk one book could push out another. Obviously that doesn't mean people have to "stay in their lane" at all times! And it's no individual person's fault that the deck is stacked against certain groups. It's systemic, but I do think we each bear an individual responsibility to challenge the status quo. Sometimes that does mean stepping aside and giving someone else the mic.

It's a hard question, and I think it's up to each of us to weigh on a case by case basis. At the end of the day, there are cases where sensitivity readers and research won't cut it. That isn't necessarily the case for the OP, but it should be mentioned, imho. Food for thought.

^^ This. While it’s all fine and good to discuss approaching a story with respect and sensitivity, the truth of the matter is, there is such limited space for stories from marginalized communities. When I was on sub with my MG F, I received a few rejections that blatantly said, “We just bought a Chinese fantasy!” When my Korean-American friend went on sub with her book, she was rejected by a few imprints because they had “just bought a Korean story!” In most cases, there is only space for ONE of that community’s story per imprint per season.

I don’t think people should “stay in their lanes” and not write anything aside from characters they identify with, but it’s definitely worth considering that if you’re writing with an MC (I’m not talking about side characters, or even stories with multiple POVs, those are totally fine I think?) from a marginalized community, you are for sure competing against people from that marginalized community for space at a very small table. It sucks, and I do think publishing is improving and becoming more inclusive. I hope that one day this won’t even be an issue because there is enough space for everyone, but we’re definitely not there yet.

ETA: I should also add that I have seen a couple of white acquaintances say that their stories were roundly rejected because editors are wary of publishing marginalized stories written by white writers, so it seems like it would be adding a barrier for yourself? (Again, this only applies to stories with marginalized MCs, not ensemble casts or side characters.)
 
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