Problems getting an agent and problem agents

Woollybear

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I'm very discouraged by the querying process and appreciate any and all comments on how to best go about it. My conclusion, after what feels like dozens of non-responses, is to take a good look at my book and consider a major rewrite. Has anyone out there had luck with the huge rewrite concept or is a completely new book a better idea. (And, yeah, I know it all 'depends' but some experiences would be most helpful to hear.)

The single most useful thing I did (at your stage of the game) was to really analyze the opening pages of not only published fiction, but also the 'winning entries' of pitch wars. There are dozens of queries/openings, the cream of the crop, in that contest, you can read through them online, and even see how many agent requests each one got. You can tally your response to each open (If I were an agent, would I request this?) against its success (using agent interest as a proxy), and get a good sense of what 'works.'

My evolving sense of it though, is that this shifts storytelling into a gaming strategy--where the object of 'getting an agent' skews the process of writing itself, possibly away from the sort of writing I'd actually prefer to do. But, it is still a valuable exercise.

But, to your question, I'd say surf on over the pitch wars blog and see what sorts of entries made it into the showcase. It's a very competitive annual event. Judge your open to those opens, and go from there.
 
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lizmonster

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I have the same question as AW Admin. A query-letter-based rejection is a different thing than a rejection on pages.

Regardless - have you had other eyes on your pages? I wouldn't explore a rewrite until you've had some other people look at your work. For that purpose, I can strongly recommend Share Your Work here on AW for help with both pages and query letter - we've got a lot of smart, incisive folks who write in pretty much every genre there is.
 

Ari Meermans

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I have the same question as AW Admin. A query-letter-based rejection is a different thing than a rejection on pages.

Regardless - have you had other eyes on your pages? I wouldn't explore a rewrite until you've had some other people look at your work. For that purpose, I can strongly recommend Share Your Work here on AW for help with both pages and query letter - we've got a lot of smart, incisive folks who write in pretty much every genre there is.

This is useful advice and if you haven't had dispassionate eyes on your work, you really should. There's no way on earth any of us can be objective about our own work and seeking the opinions of those who'd never want to hurt our feelings (so lie instead) is never going to get us where we need to be with our writing. So.

Every once in a while I recommend a book—and, yeah, I know there are hundreds of books on writing, if not more—and while I can't have any idea how many check out those recs, I assume occasionally someone does. So, instead of trying to read agents' minds or moaning, how about looking into a book I found insightful: Thanks, But This Isn't For Us: A (Sort of) Compassionate Guide to Why Your Writing is Being Rejected.
 

waylander

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If you are getting no requests it could be your query letter rather than your novel that is the problem.
Have you read Queryshark? https://queryshark.blogspot.com/ or put your query letter through Query Letter Hell on here.
 

Mutive

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In addition to the query/pages thing, some books really are easier and harder sells. I'm going to guess that if an agent just spoke with an editor about how YA mermaid/diver romance was the Next Big Thing, she'd be more inclined to ask for pages on a book that is a YA mermaid/diver romance. If she's convinced that won't sell, probably nothing's going to convince her to bite. (Think of the issues with "The Martian" because supposedly no one buys hard science fiction...)

I can't speak to what agents see, but I do slush read, and it's amazing how many good stories we pass on because there's something out there that's better.

Taste is also a component. I've seen stories end up published that I didn't like very much. I've seen some rejected that I loved. One person's trash is another's treasure. I've written shorts that I've been lukewarm on that have been published and ones I love that haven't gotten even a personalized rejection.

I had something rejected a few days ago with, "If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic, we would have bought this, but it's just too depressing now."

It sucks when you're doing your best and not getting anywhere. But taste is a thing. Timing is a thing.
 

litdawg

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Woollybear, I agree that the free market system of book acquisitions and sales has a lot of bad actors, fakes, wannabes, and dead ends that make the good agents hard to find. I liked Brandon Sanderson's take on the travails of publishing success. I hope I can have his stamina in writing SIXTEEN novels before his first sale. Not that I want to wait that long--I just want to use my time productively on something I can control--my growth in the craft. This week, I feel like being a writer is a lot like starting a restaurant. Making good food is a such a small part of the equation, and so many restaurant start-ups fail. I'm in awe of the hard work and idealism of some local brew pub owners who have gone through all of the pandemic restrictions and shutdowns of recent months (and will shut down again today due to local public health orders). This one brewpub on my mind is owned by lovely people. Staffing is a family and friend affair. The beer is great, the food is hit and miss, the atmosphere is incredibly family friendly and social--the best for people like me. I want success for them so bad . . . but I don't see how they can possibly survive.

Luck. Sheesh, maybe I should stick to parenting. My failure rate there is perhaps less disheartening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH9sJrAVeC0
 

Woollybear

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My thoughts go in different directions on different days. There's sort of a core that stays true to my feelings, which is that it's complex.

There are some amazing people in publishing, doing 'all the right things.' There are also other people in publishing. It isn't one agent or one publishing house that's fantastic, or awful, or typical. There are multiples at each level and it depends what criterion you are measuring (resonating, shared vision; effective at getting deals; efficiency; other things).

I'm a data-junkie and will take information where ever I can find it (discussions here: B&B, blogs, Strauss, twitter, query tracker, PW, conversations IRL, pitch wars, agent-interactions through querying, etc etc etc.) and continue to add notes to my spreadsheet of agents.

Mutive--yeah, I agree about the number of good manuscripts that don't get picked up. I don't read slush but I beta read as often as I can, and next to that I read the best-selling or highly-recommended trade published novels.

A powerhouse agent who I'd love to query has some rock-star authors and I started reading two or three first-in-series books from two of those authors. I had thought I would see a clear distinction in quality between this writing and some of the pieces from my friends. Eh. They're comparable.

I guess that is comforting on the one hand, and it also informs me of what this agent is interested in, like where the boundaries are in terms of quality and so on. It was surprising, though.

This also helps me sort through what is important to me in fiction, and I'm honing in on relationships. Stories that have no solid relationships from the get-go, and which rely on independent players pitting their goals against one another through page after page become tedious to me, even while I observe that this strategy (putting character goals in opposition) seems to engage readers more effectively at first blush. Of course, the conclusion is to integrate both--people in authentic and close relationship and also characters with opposing goals. I think this is why Marion Zimmer Bradley is one of my long-running favorite authors, despite the fall she took (through her own actions) at the end. She always wrote relationally, and it's hard for me to think of a single story she ever penned that didn't have this as a pillar. Le Guin, to the extent I've read her, also uses this strategy, as does Butler. Love those ladies of SF.

Litdawg--I agree about the parallels to small restaurants. It really is a shame. The local Coffee Bean is closing due to COVID and I only mention it because that's where one of our IRL groups would meet to critique each week. Thanks for the Youtube link, I'm watching now. Sanderson does a live event on FB frequently. I have loved his BYU series on writing fantasy series. I love that man, and have never seen a reason to not love him. :) Such a helpful person.
 
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