• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

Enough proofreading?

Rupert24

Registered
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Puebla, Mexico
Hello my friends i hope you're doing well even with the lockdown and quarantine

This is the first novel i write and well it's obvious i will make a lot of mistakes because i'm a rookie. I asked for proofread the first six chapters of my novel to some friend before continue writing the rest and well... the guy was pretty harsh and the proofreading didn't went far beyond of the introduction, which is pretty demotivating you know? However, i didn't give up and being my proofreader, so i decided research everything i can, even i took a masterclass with natalie portman which helped me a lot to understand the skin and personalities of my characters. I rewrote some chapters because i had a lot of incoherences from the first time i wrote them and i think i made a pretty decent work but, now i'm in some point when i ask, is this enough proofreading? or i need to do more of them?


Anyone has faced the same thing?
 

InkFinger

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
4,297
Reaction score
1,567
Getting that first big body of work out there is hard. Everyone faces the same thing. No one starts out as a great, even the greats. Hang in there.
 

Elle.

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,272
Reaction score
734
Location
United Kingdom
Hi Rupert,

We all had to start somewhere and we all did plenty of mistakes. There is no one way to write a novel and you will have to experiment and find what works for you, however bear in mind that proof-reading is only one part of the editing process and normally comes towards the end, not the start. As it is your first novel my advice would be at this stage to just write a complete first draft without worrying if it's good or bad. I've seen it quite often with new writers — they start with a few chapters and then they obsess about making them perfect and never end up finishing their first draft.

Once you have a first draft, put it away for a few weeks and read/learn about editing from macro to micro. Then start editing and when you can't see anything more to change and/or tweak use some beta readers to read it and give you feedback.

I hope this helps and good luck with your novel.
 

Woollybear

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
9,705
Location
USA
In my view, a novel has so many components. One of the most important components in my opinion is that a compelling story should form the novel's basic skeleton. Something that feels true and important and resonant. That part is one of the toughest things to get right. A perfectly written story that has no actual 'story' is not a good story. Make sense?

Proofreading has nothing to do with the 'story' you are telling, and proofreading is another part of novel-writing but it is a smaller consideration, in terms of whether a novel is 'a good story' or not.

So, you may or may not need a lot of proofing (and other feedback). But what I'm trying to say is if you feel in your heart that your story matters--and would matter to others, or be enjoyed by others--then keep at it. (Or if you enjoy the process you are going through.) The proofreading is a technical chore, but can be managed. Having a story to tell in the first place is important. (Or enjoying the process.)

Those are my thoughts RN.
 
Last edited:

Ariel.Williams

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 13, 2020
Messages
84
Reaction score
21
I agree with Elle. I think, when writing a novel, it’s best to write the whole thing and then go back and proofread. Try to ignore what other people might think and just write the story. Then I think it’s important to wait a couple months so you have some distance from the story before you read it, make your own edits or rewrites, and reach out to others for feedback. If you work on the proofreading mid-writing you might get stuck in your own head, get demotivated, etc. But as you keep writing you’ll probably find your own process.
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
Hi Rupert,

We all had to start somewhere and we all did plenty of mistakes. There is no one way to write a novel and you will have to experiment and find what works for you, however bear in mind that proof-reading is only one part of the editing process and normally comes towards the end, not the start. As it is your first novel my advice would be at this stage to just write a complete first draft without worrying if it's good or bad. I've seen it quite often with new writers — they start with a few chapters and then they obsess about making them perfect and never end up finishing their first draft.

Once you have a first draft, put it away for a few weeks and read/learn about editing from macro to micro. Then start editing and when you can't see anything more to change and/or tweak use some beta readers to read it and give you feedback.

I hope this helps and good luck with your novel.

Good advice there.

We roll over before we crawl, crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. Writing is a skill that takes a long time to learn, and IMO no one ever perfects it.

My process is that I write my chapter, then go back and give it ONE quick read - my goal is to have it be 'not awful'. I progress that way until the first draft is done. What follows I call 'edits' but most people refer to them as drafts. The first of these is to go through the book cover to cover, taking notes and looking for plot holes; basically, I'm handling the big items first. Through the subsequent edits (drafts) I work at ever smaller granularity. Only when I'm somewhat happy with the whole to I let proof readers then my editor see it.

We each have our own way though. I suggest you listen to what other people do, try it, then alter the process to suit your writing style and personality.
 

Rupert24

Registered
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Puebla, Mexico
Hi Rupert,

We all had to start somewhere and we all did plenty of mistakes. There is no one way to write a novel and you will have to experiment and find what works for you, however bear in mind that proof-reading is only one part of the editing process and normally comes towards the end, not the start. As it is your first novel my advice would be at this stage to just write a complete first draft without worrying if it's good or bad. I've seen it quite often with new writers — they start with a few chapters and then they obsess about making them perfect and never end up finishing their first draft.

Once you have a first draft, put it away for a few weeks and read/learn about editing from macro to micro. Then start editing and when you can't see anything more to change and/or tweak use some beta readers to read it and give you feedback.

I hope this helps and good luck with your novel.

You know, that was my original plan, i was planning write the whole history like a draft first and proofread later, however the guy i talked before convinced me about proofread every chapter i write because i'd lose the plot, the idea and the whole stuff if i continue writing without take a look first

Ugh, well then i'm going to continue my novel, i don't want to end in a loop about make perfect my chapters and never ending my novel

Thank you elle, much appreciated your advice
 

Rupert24

Registered
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Puebla, Mexico
In my view, a novel has so many components. One of the most important components in my opinion is that a compelling story should form the novel's basic skeleton. Something that feels true and important and resonant. That part is one of the toughest things to get right. A perfectly written story that has no actual 'story' is not a good story. Make sense?

Proofreading has nothing to do with the 'story' you are telling, and proofreading is another part of novel-writing but it is a smaller consideration, in terms of whether a novel is 'a good story' or not.

So, you may or may not need a lot of proofing (and other feedback). But what I'm trying to say is if you feel in your heart that your story matters--and would matter to others, or be enjoyed by others--then keep at it. (Or if you enjoy the process you are going through.) The proofreading is a technical chore, but can be managed. Having a story to tell in the first place is important. (Or enjoying the process.)

Those are my thoughts RN.

Indeed in my heart i think my novel will be loved and it's my goal finish it, however i can't help feel frustrated sometimes by the mistakes it can get
 

Rupert24

Registered
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Puebla, Mexico
Good advice there.

We roll over before we crawl, crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. Writing is a skill that takes a long time to learn, and IMO no one ever perfects it.

My process is that I write my chapter, then go back and give it ONE quick read - my goal is to have it be 'not awful'. I progress that way until the first draft is done. What follows I call 'edits' but most people refer to them as drafts. The first of these is to go through the book cover to cover, taking notes and looking for plot holes; basically, I'm handling the big items first. Through the subsequent edits (drafts) I work at ever smaller granularity. Only when I'm somewhat happy with the whole to I let proof readers then my editor see it.

We each have our own way though. I suggest you listen to what other people do, try it, then alter the process to suit your writing style and personality.

Is an interesting process my friend but how many times you reread your history to finish to fix all the plot holes?
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
Is an interesting process my friend but how many times you reread your history to finish to fix all the plot holes?

It usually takes 8 to 12 editing passes after the 1st draft before I pass it to my editor. It’s not just plot holes though. Each character has a unique voice (nothing drastic, just common expressions and phrasing), I also look for consistency in description and a bunch of other things. Plotting through 1st draft, plus edits it takes 6 to 9 months to finish the book.
 

Sonya Heaney

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
565
Reaction score
85
Location
Canberra
In my opinion: proofreading is SO not important when you're drafting your book, but it's VERY important when you begin querying and submitting. Get your story sorted first. Get a manuscript finished - that's the hard part. Typos etc. can be fixed afterwards.

I'm actually hugely embarrassed at how poorly proofread the book I'm currently editing was when I signed the contract - my fault, not the fault of my editors. I ran out of time to deliver a good, polished manuscript, and we were more concerned about getting the plotting sorted than worrying about little mistakes. (I still can't turn my track changes on without cringing at how much an editor had to fix!) However, this isn't my first book with my publisher, and so I had more leeway than someone who is just starting out.
 

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
2,800
Reaction score
843
Location
Connecticut
Proofreading is something that's important AFTER you've finished writing, when you're preparing to submit it to people. Before you have a final draft of the manuscript in hand, there's no point even trying to proofread -- why should you worry about spelling, grammar, typos in a section of prose that may not even exist in the final version?

Focus on the story itself. Make sure you've got the whole story told in the best way you can, make sure the characters and the storylines and the scenes are good, and that you've got it all down from Chapter 1 to The End in a way that you and your readers find satisfying. And THEN get it proofread and polish it up.
 
Last edited:

Woollybear

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
9,705
Location
USA
Also--don't forget to trust your instincts, Rupert.

One of the hurdles I faced early on was not knowing comma rules and other rules specific to fiction (such as viewpoint and scene structure). It made it very difficult to get feedback on the larger 'story,' because storytellers had difficulty reading and parsing what I had written.

I needed people to explain punctuation, verb tense, passive v. active voice, all sorts of things--things that would trip up a reader otherwise. I needed family to be my first sounding board, and some people swear this is of no value. But what most everyone agrees on is that your process will be individual to you. Having someone read for punctuation etc. (proofreading) and so forth might be something you personally need now, to make the draft generally readable, and again after the story is polished up. Only you know.

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the value in looking at other pieces people are writing and trying your hand at critiquing them. That'd be in the share your work forums. When you get to 50 posts you can post an excerpt and people can give you more detailed thoughts about the state of your writing. In the meantime you can post the first 200 words of your story in 'Hook me in 200 words.'

You don't say who your proofreader was or what they provided specifically (it's actually different than a line editor in my understanding, and both of those are after structural work generally speaking). Sometimes I've heard the words used to mean something other than what i think they actually mean, but maybe I have my definitions wrong.

Anyway, you've passed a few hurdles already--completing a draft, getting some feedback, taking a wrench to the thing. Keep at it. Head up, smiles on.
 
Last edited:

Rupert24

Registered
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Puebla, Mexico
Thank you for your support guys, you're the best and i'm truly honored that you took some time to provide me good, meaningful ideas to keep going :)
 

stephenf

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
335
This just my personal opinion. Writing a novel is a big job to tackle. Before you start you should have a good knowledge of basic English and some knowledge of writing . If your a beginner you need to practise by writing short stories, critiques , book reviews and anything that can help to improve your writing.
Rewriting and editing is something all writers do to improve their work. But proofreading is a processes that is normal left to the end,when the work is finished.
Proofreading the final draft to straighten out the writers shortcomings is in itself a big task . One of the reasons manuscripts get rejected by publishers is of the amount of work need to make it publishable,is too much.