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Writing direct thought. Which method do you prefer?

H7TM4N

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When it comes to quoting your characters direct thoughts I've seen it done in different ways. Which method: 1) 2) 3) or 4) do you prefer? And why? Are there any other ways you tend to use when it comes to handling your POV's thoughts?

I've seen, and used these myself at different times:

1) Those clouds look menacing, John Doe thought. It will rain soon!

2) The clouds looked menacing. John Doe was certain it would rain soon.

3) The clouds looked menacing. It would rain soon, John Doe thought.

4) John Doe thought the clouds look menacing. It will rain soon!


I'm sure there are countless other ways of doing it, are some better than others or is it simply a matter of preferred style?

Let me know your thoughts below. ;)
 

lizmonster

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Each one of those has a slightly different level of distancing, and which you choose (if any) will depend on what you're going for.

I've seen people suggest either italics, or <character> thought without italics. In my published work, it's been italics plus <character> thought, or just italics, but some of that was dictated by my editor.
 

angeliz2k

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These could all be valid.

Because of the italics, #1 doesn't need "John Doe thought"--unless, that is, there's some reason we might not know who's doing the thinking, for instance if it were the start of the ms or a new chapter with a new POV.

#2 is fine, but a bit removed. There's filtering there ("John was certain"). Again, that might serve a purpose, either in letting us know whose POV we're in or if you want to get some distance from the character. Still, filtering isn't generally advised.

In #3, the filtering is more evident, and I think it's the weakest of the four. Stop at "soon" and let us know some other way who's doing the thinking.

#4 is fine, too, with a bit of filtering. This might be a good transition from a more general view of the world down to John's POV. We start with, e.g., "It was a Tuesday in December." Then we learn what John thinks of the weather. Then we hear his actual thoughts.

What you use depends on what you want to accomplish.
 

Woollybear

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I've come around to trying to get all of the narrative (as much as possible, but this will exclude action) into thought--the non-italicized kind. I still use italics but infrequently, to go deeper and stronger, they add oomph, like punctuation.

Part of the method to make all the narrative (as much as possible) come across as thought is getting rid of words that work against that goal. Part is voice.

1. The clouds looked menacing. John Doe was certain it would rain soon. The language in your example is sub-par to feel like thought.

2. The clouds lay heavy and dark, and John pulled his umbrella out. This would be a rewrite to make the front end showier and punch that show with an action.

The action is actually reaction to the clouds, which makes the first clause something that's going on in John's head--so that seems closer to thought to me. I'd also not use his last name in the narrative, obviously, though I doubt you would either.

If I were to italicize anything in this rainy moment, it would be something else, a more illuminating thought than "It will rain." Maybe This is a new suit. Or, Thank God, the drought's finally ending. Again, I understand you were going for efficiency in your post.

One reason I try to make all of the narrative (as much as possible) feel more like thought, is because then, something that would sound 'too telly' otherwise becomes camouflaged--by association--into looking like thought.

He was so very sad.

That's a telling phrase, but if the much of the narrative comes to feel like thought, that phrase can feel like thought too.

So--my preference is more at the language level than the font-style level. Also trying to find voice in the narrative, so that the narrative can sound (as much as possible) entirely like thought. I only rarely use italics for thought anymore, and always as follows:

Italics: One of the reasons italics is nice is that when writing in 3rd person past tense, italicized thought is conveyed in first person present. Or even second person after a fashion, and both of those are a bit more... eye-catching.

He was dying, (3rd past) vs. I'm dying (1st present).

The shift to present tense first person adds a kick. The italics add a kick. They make the reader take notice. Like exclamation points. So I never use italics unless it shifts the thought into 1st/present. IOW, I would never italicize It would rain, he was certain, but might italicize This is a new suit.

Those are my thoughts.
 
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Kerry56

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I don't use italics for thoughts, so the 2nd and 3rd examples are similar to what I write. Changing to italics wouldn't be an issue if the publisher or editor wanted it. I'm not that picky.
 

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I am not a fan of italics to denote a character's thoughts and even less when italics are followed up by a [character name] thought.

My own preference is for a writer to get inside the skin of the pov character, so much so that what is rendered on the page makes it a given it is the character's emotions, prejudices thoughts et al.
 
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indianroads

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Find a style that works for you and stick with it. Personally, I prefer to use italics only for emphasized words.
He really needed to get off AW and get to work.

I agree with Lizmonster in that all your examples use levels of distancing, and IMO are not direct thought.

Rolling dark clouds hung above him; the picnic with Bridget had to be cancelled. Damn!

In the above (poor) example, Damn! is the only direct thought.
 

Ariel.Williams

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I agree that how you include thoughts is partly dictated by point of view. Even beyond level of distancing, there’s the matter of what point of view you’re using (first person, second person, third person). And then, as was already pointed out, if your using third person omniscient you might need to include “X thought” so the reader knows who the thinker is. Or you might not if you’ve already clearly demonstrated the point of view of the section. I think it really depends.
 

H7TM4N

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I've come around to trying to get all of the narrative (as much as possible, but this will exclude action) into thought--the non-italicized kind. I still use italics but infrequently, to go deeper and stronger, they add oomph, like punctuation.

Part of the method to make all the narrative (as much as possible) come across as thought is getting rid of words that work against that goal. Part is voice.

1. The clouds looked menacing. John Doe was certain it would rain soon. The language in your example is sub-par to feel like thought.

2. The clouds lay heavy and dark, and John pulled his umbrella out. This would be a rewrite to make the front end showier and punch that show with an action.

The action is actually reaction to the clouds, which makes the first clause something that's going on in John's head--so that seems closer to thought to me. I'd also not use his last name in the narrative, obviously, though I doubt you would either.

If I were to italicize anything in this rainy moment, it would be something else, a more illuminating thought than "It will rain." Maybe This is a new suit. Or, Thank God, the drought's finally ending. Again, I understand you were going for efficiency in your post.

One reason I try to make all of the narrative (as much as possible) feel more like thought, is because then, something that would sound 'too telly' otherwise becomes camouflaged--by association--into looking like thought.

He was so very sad.

That's a telling phrase, but if the much of the narrative comes to feel like thought, that phrase can feel like thought too.

So--my preference is more at the language level than the font-style level. Also trying to find voice in the narrative, so that the narrative can sound (as much as possible) entirely like thought. I only rarely use italics for thought anymore, and always as follows:

Italics: One of the reasons italics is nice is that when writing in 3rd person past tense, italicized thought is conveyed in first person present. Or even second person after a fashion, and both of those are a bit more... eye-catching.

He was dying, (3rd past) vs. I'm dying (1st present).

The shift to present tense first person adds a kick. The italics add a kick. They make the reader take notice. Like exclamation points. So I never use italics unless it shifts the thought into 1st/present. IOW, I would never italicize It would rain, he was certain, but might italicize This is a new suit.

Those are my thoughts.

I was indeed going for efficiency in the post, nevertheless, your feedback is very helpful. I don't have much experience yet, and know one of my weaknesses in writing is still being too telly instead of showy. Thank you for helping me improve :) making as much of the narrative sound like thought seems to me a worthwhile goal! Any tips or tricks in that regard are most welcome!
 

Cindyt

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I prefer italics.

It looks like rain. I should take an umbrella. I've tried mine without italics, and it just doesn't feel right for me. The right use is most def up to the writer.
 
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lizmonster

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I prefer italics.

It looks like rain. I should take an umbrella. I've tried mine without italics, and it just doesn't look right to me. The right use is most def up to the writer.

I think if you're mixing thoughts with non-internal narrative, you've got to have a way to differentiate them.

My habit was to write third person without direct thought. My editor expressed a preference for some direct thoughts included, italicized. I made some changes, and I'm still not sure I'm happy with them.

My current book is first person, and in this respect, at least, it's so much easier. :) I only use italics when the speaker is emphasizing something (and even that I do rarely). Thoughts vs. narrative isn't the same problem.
 

indianroads

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I think if you're mixing thoughts with non-internal narrative, you've got to have a way to differentiate them.

My habit was to write third person without direct thought. My editor expressed a preference for some direct thoughts included, italicized. I made some changes, and I'm still not sure I'm happy with them.

My current book is first person, and in this respect, at least, it's so much easier. :) I only use italics when the speaker is emphasizing something (and even that I do rarely). Thoughts vs. narrative isn't the same problem.

I agree - if everything is emphasized, then nothing is. That's the problem I have with italics, if used in abundance they're either distracting and bothersome, or ignored.
 

Drascus

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I italicize and use quotes for a character speaking in a "talking to myself" mode.

For example: "That was stupid!" Raya thought, "I can't afford to get in trouble before the duel."

If instead the character is ruminating about something but not really talking to themselves I just do it in narrative prose.

Example: Raya wondered where they were getting all these undead dogs. Hopefully they'd been brought in from beyond the valley. The alternative turned her stomach.
 

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I use italics only occasionally for character thought, when it isn't just feelings or cogitation, but more like talking to someone else.
 

TurbulentMuse

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I personally tend to use all non-italics third person for thoughts unless another character is hearing those thoughts somehow. I find it adds voice to the narration.
 

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The OP seems to have omitted the traditional indication of quoting someone, which is quotation marks. Is it against the rules when quoting someone's unspoken thoughts to use quotation marks?

I think I have commented before that Anne McCaffrey is one of my favorite authors. She uses italics to indicate telepathic communication between the people and the dragons. I don't recall how (or even "if') she handles unspoken people thoughts that aren't telepathic conversations with the dragons.

Other possibilities: different typeface? small caps?
 

Bufty

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The OP is simply showing examples of expressing direct thoughts.

Who is being 'quoted'?

The OP seems to have omitted the traditional indication of quoting someone, which is quotation marks. Is it against the rules when quoting someone's unspoken thoughts to use quotation marks?

I think I have commented before that Anne McCaffrey is one of my favorite authors. She uses italics to indicate telepathic communication between the people and the dragons. I don't recall how (or even "if') she handles unspoken people thoughts that aren't telepathic conversations with the dragons.

Other possibilities: different typeface? small caps?
 

TrapperViper

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I had my whole manuscript written as 1, but without the italics.
Some friendly betas pointed out how distant that method felt to them as a reader, every time the read the "I thought," part

I rewrote it all to be more like following:

The menacing clouds hovered above the open field.

Uh oh. It's gonna rain soon


For your work though, it seems like with it being in 3rd person you're still going to need to put the whole "John thought" tag in there to identify the thinker. That being the case, I'd try to wrap the descriptions into the prose instead of the thought bubble because it won't feel as distant.

This from Woolybear is what I was trying to get at too:
2. The clouds lay heavy and dark, and John pulled his umbrella out.
Let the actions speak for the thoughts as much as possible...
 
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Mattpwriter

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Unless I'm already writing in first-person, I just put the MC's thoughts in italics and trust the reader is smart enough to figure it out. Example:

The wind was beating against the windows, threatening to break them.
Well, isn't this just a wonderful little vacation.
Steven could handle a lot of problems, but he was at his limit.
 

ldlago

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My own preference is for a writer to get inside the skin of the pov character, so much so that what is rendered on the page makes it a given it is the character's emotions, prejudices thoughts et al.

I tend to agree with this, if you've already established that you're writing from John Doe's POV. The clouds looked menacing. It was going to rain soon.
 
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SapereAude

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The OP is simply showing examples of expressing direct thoughts.

Who is being 'quoted'?

Who is (potentially) being quoted is the person doing the thinking.

I'm confused by the term "direct thoughts." It seems to me there are two ways to handle it: either the narrator is telling the reader what the protagonist is thinking (which, to me, is not "direct'), or the protagonists thoughts are essentially being quoted.

An exception would be if the story is being written in the first person.