George Floyd

mccardey

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I'm just surprised there isn't a thread yet.
 

mccardey

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Okay well just this
The Minneapolis police officer who was filmed kneeling on George Floyd’s neck for several minutes even as he said “I can’t breathe” has previously been the subject of multiple complaints filed to the Minneapolis Police Department’s Internal Affairs Division, it has emerged.[FONT=&quot]Mr Chauvin, who has been fired along with the other three police officers who apprehended Mr Floyd, was reported to the division 18 times. According to a police summary, only two of the complaints were “closed with discipline”.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​
While full details of Mr Chauvin’s career have yet to be released, he is known to have also been involved in several police shootings, and has been the subject of several complaints filed by civilians to police oversight bodies.

And also - yeah those riots are awkward.
 

Bufty

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I don't understand the need for a knee on the neck of someone -anyone- who has been handcuffed.

Unbelievable. And Trump has to stick his oar in.
 
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lizmonster

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I'm just surprised there isn't a thread yet.

The entire situation is both heartbreakingly horrific, and not a surprise. Ordinary citizens are told to trust the process on things like this, and yet we see law enforcement get away with murder repeatedly - sometimes without even the toothless discipline of suspension.

Law enforcement is broken in the US. It's two distinct systems. And yet it's important to recognize they're doing what the white-dominated culture has always asked of them. Murders like this happen because white society permits them. We can and must hold officers to account, and we must change any rules that allow them to murder without fear of serious repercussions - but we can't pretend it started with cops, or that we don't have far more work to do before our country can claim to have equality for all.
 

Introversion

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People Can Only Bear So Much Injustice Before Lashing Out

The Nation said:
I would never throw a rock at the police. I would never throw a brick through the window of a big-box store. I would never set fire to an office building. But I want to. I understand why some people do.

I know I am supposed to counsel “nonviolence.” I’m a 42-year old man with a wife, two kids, and a mortgage; I’ve got a college degree and a law degree and a blue checkmark on Twitter; I know I am supposed to shun “rioters” and “looters” who allegedly cede the moral high ground of protests when they respond to tear gas and rubber bullets with stone and flame. But every person has a limit to the injustice they can bear before lashing out.

The second day of protests in Minneapolis over the death of George Floyd erupted into violence last night. I understand why. And I’m surprised it doesn’t happen more often.

Put yourself in the position of a relatively conscious black person in America just since this past March. Black people have seen a pandemic disproportionately rip through their communities while the media continually runs live press conferences of a racist president lying about the disease. We’ve seen layoffs and unemployment ravage our communities, while Congress funnels billions of dollars to white-owned businesses. We’ve seen white people absolutely lose their minds, waving guns and Confederate flags at police officers, pushing them into lakes, and gathering in large groups without consequence, while we’ve seen police literally sit on black people for allegedly violating social distancing orders.

And then the stories of the killings started. In the past three weeks: Ahmaud Arbery was lynched, on video. Breonna Taylor was killed by police in her own bed, offscreen. And George Floyd was choked out on the street in broad daylight by police while strangers literally begged for his life.

Imagine you’ve been black this whole time and watched all of this happen, and you show up to protest and, instead of being met with docile, restrained police like the white Confederates get, you are confronted by police in full riot gear who use tear gas and rubber bullets to “control” your crowd.

...
 

nighttimer

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When I stopped working in journalism full-time, I went back to freelancing. When that slowed down, I started blogging and stayed at it for eight years.

I stayed at it through Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, John H. Crawford III, Rekia Boyd, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice and a vast number of dead Black bodies dropped by cops or vigilantes. Many more names, and I remember them all, but there's no need to go down the list.

Then I stopped blogging.

People ask me all the time. "Why did you stop writing? Why did you stop blogging?"

I give them the same answer all the time.

"Because I couldn't stand writing about murdered Black people any longer. "

Whether its a George Floyd in Minneapolis or Ahmaud Arbery or Breonna Taylor joining the Roll Call of Murdered Black Bodies, I find nothing's changed. It used to be it took a blurry unclear video of a bunch of LAPD thugs beating the snot out of a Rodney King before White people would pull their heads out of their asses long enough to notice and say, "What? You mean the cops don't serve and protect the Negroes the way they do me? Gee, that sucks!"

Then White people go right back to sleep. Now don't take this the wrong way, but this is not simply a matter of "a few bad cops." This is a matter of the whole rotten system of "justice" in America. There's justice for White people. There's "just us" for Black people.

This is not acceptable. It never was, but with each generation of Black people in America, there comes less and less tolerance for the double-barrelled insanity of White supremacy and Police brutality murder. You don't need to worry about me. I'm too old and fat to be a threat. Now, my kids? Oh, they're much younger and in much better shape. They can run and fight and throw rocks and burn buildings and loot and shoot back.

That last part is the part White people should be worried about. White people love their guns. They love them more than they love their children. They will kill you if you even think of regulating or restricting their right to bear arms in their homes in their schools, in their churches and anywhere else they feel the need to openly carry their weapons.

But now Black people got guns too. They usually use them on each other because Black people are indoctrinated to believe in White supremacy too and there's a much higher price to pay when a Black person kills a White person instead of the other way around.

Some are willing to pay it. They'll shoot before they get shot and if you shoot them and miss, oh, that's your ass. They will shoot back and shoot to kill you. It's the American Way.

I know there will be no peace between Blacks and Whites in America. I'll never see it in my lifetime and my children won't either. Maybe their children will, but it doesn't seem to be just around the corner. What is around the corner is something ugly and bad and nasty and we all aren't going to come out of it intact.

Really sorry about that. Wish I had some words of encouragement and hope and all that good stuff, but this has been coming for a long time. Now it's here.

The fire next time is the fire right now. Easy to start. Hell to put out.
 

MaeZe

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They just charged the cop with his knee on the neck with 3rd degree murder.

I'm off to read more about it.
 

Ari Meermans

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Though not yet proven, it's possible Derek Chauvin knew George Floyd: "George Floyd, fired officer overlapped security shifts at south Minneapolis club."

If Chauvin did know Mr. Floyd prior to killing him, they're going to have to work damned hard to prove to me that it wasn't at least second-degree murder. I'll never accept third-degree, though. Never.

ETA: More info on why I consider Mr. Floyd's murder to be second-degree (at a minimum):

Experts on police use of force told The Associated Press that the officer clearly restrained the man too long. They noted the man was under control and no longer fighting. Andrew Scott, a former Boca Raton, Florida, police chief who now testifies as an expert witness in use-of-force cases, called Floyd's death “a combination of not being trained properly or disregarding their training.”

“He couldn’t move. He was telling them he couldn’t breathe, and they ignored him," Scott said. "I can’t even describe it. It was difficult to watch.”

(Bystanders were also begging Chauvin to get off Mr. Floyd's neck for more than five minutes.)
 
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Roxxsmom

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He's been taken into custody. At last.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/8647...-floyds-death-as-trump-calls-protesters-thugs

Our society is really sick. Why are (white) people so surprised when the frustration and rage over these murders erupts into rioting?

More than fifty years ago, the Kerner Commission revealed the causes of the rioting that was ripping communities apart back then, but the information continues to mostly fall on deaf ears. Much easier to deal with the cognitive dissonance by victim blaming.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...TU8ib-b49E5OqfT7aSysp1lfEAzl0CU0xLXAP1uGZcEho
 
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MaeZe

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Third degree might sound like a weak charge, but in Minnesota it's not what it seems.

From Wiki Third Degree Murder
Minnesota
Minnesota law originally defined third-degree murder solely as depraved-heart murder ("without intent to effect the death of any person, caus[ing] the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life").[7][8] In 1987, an additional drug-related provision ("without intent to cause death, proximately caus[ing] the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II") was added to the definition of third-degree murder.[7][9] Up until the early 2000s, prosecutions under that provision were rare, but they began to rise in the 2010s. Some reports linked this increase in prosecutions to the opioid epidemic in the United States.[10]

Minnesota law also defines the crime of third-degree murder of an unborn child, with the same elements of depraved mind and lack of intent to kill distinguishing it from first- or second-degree murder of an unborn child.[11][12] Both third-degree murder and third-degree murder of an unborn child are punishable by a maximum of 25 years' imprisonment.[7][12]
Given he was a cop, on duty, he deserves the maximum sentence.
 

MaeZe

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Damned if you don't (Twitter's partial censorship), damned if you do because the attention called to it counteracts the goal Twitter had. Like this:

NPR: The History Behind 'When The Looting Starts, The Shooting Starts'
A full blown picture of the offending Tweet is blasting out at people from the top of the article. Seriously NPR, was this story needed? And was that picture needed? We all know what a Trump Tweet looks like.

That phrase goes back to the civil rights era, known to have been invoked by a white police chief cracking down on protests in the 1960s and a segregationist politician.

A better story might have been, where did Trump get the phrase from? Miller maybe?

Miller isn't mentioned in the article. Instead it's a story about the '60s incident.

It ends with this:
"So often Trump has engaged in dog whistles," Lusane said. "But he also engages in blaring trumpets. And this is a pretty clear and very loud message that the response should not be let's try to address the justice issues that are involved here but let's be hard-line."

:mad:
 

mccardey

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America is definitely broken. Link
[FONT=&quot]Police in Minnesota arrested a black [/FONT]CNN[FONT=&quot] reporter reporting live on television early on Friday morning while covering [/FONT]the Minneapolis protests[FONT=&quot] over the death of [/FONT]George Floyd[FONT=&quot], and led him and three crew members away in handcuffs, in what has been criticized as a racist incident.[/FONT]
<snip>
In contrast[FONT=&quot], another of CNN’s correspondents, Josh Campbell, who is white, was reporting about a block away from Jimenez. He said police were “polite” when they approached him to ask him which outlet he was with, and they told him: “OK, you’re good.”[/FONT]
 

ElaineA

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A first degree murder charge in MN requires a grand jury indictment. We'll see if they push for it.

Three more cops need to be arrested. One isn't enough.

Mr. Floyd's brother made a powerful statement, if anyone wants to watch it.

America threw open the lid on the vilest impulses of human nature when we elected Trump, and you don't stuff that back into Pandora's box. You just don't. Our enemies (without and within) have stoke the flames of division worse than ever, but they needed embers, and we had them all banked and ready.

If we make it out of this with some sort of cohesive vision, we're going to have to grapple the fallout the way Germany has had to grapple with their history. The trouble is, Germany had the allies ready to back up their rebuilding toward liberalism, and right now, there is no one in the world that can do that for us. We either have to save ourselves, or I agree with Nighttimer. There won't be peace between white and black in America, because there isn't going to be an America to find peace in. Unfortunately, I can't see the path toward self-preservation, either.

All empires fall. We can't be shocked ours will, too.
 

Sage

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America is definitely broken. Link <snip>

The claim by the police was that the reporter and crew wouldn't move when the police asked. In the live video you can hear him explaining to the police that they were in the process of moving, and that they would happily go anywhere the police directed them to. They received no direction, but instead were arrested.
 

mccardey

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The claim by the police was that the reporter and crew wouldn't move when the police asked. In the live video you can hear him explaining to the police that they were in the process of moving, and that they would happily go anywhere the police directed them to. They received no direction, but instead were arrested.
Yep. Just saw some other footage of a female reporter being targeted by police. I guess targeting reporters is to be expected after years of being told that the press is the enemy of the people, though.
 
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frimble3

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Third degree might sound like a weak charge, but in Minnesota it's not what it seems.

From Wiki Third Degree Murder
Given he was a cop, on duty, he deserves the maximum sentence.

'Depraved heart'. That certainly is a description of kneeling on a man's neck for 8 minutes, while the victim and others were yelling "You're killing him!"
Get the other cops for aiding and abetting, being accomplices, whatever but get them.
 

frimble3

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If we make it out of this with some sort of cohesive vision, we're going to have to grapple the fallout the way Germany has had to grapple with their history. The trouble is, Germany had the allies ready to back up their rebuilding toward liberalism, and right now, there is no one in the world that can do that for us. We either have to save ourselves, or I agree with Nighttimer. There won't be peace between white and black in America, because there isn't going to be an America to find peace in. Unfortunately, I can't see the path toward self-preservation, either.

All empires fall. We can't be shocked ours will, too.

Germany was broken, and ashamed. Unless someone or something slaps down your Neo-Nazis, Klansmen and other Right-Wing fanatics, and does it hard, they will merely slither into the shadows and continue their work.
Trump is certainly not the man for the job.
 

Friendly Frog

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I'm quite disgusted by the news that they're trying to partly blame medical conditions for the poor's man death. Like a cop putting a knee on somebody's neck so he can't breathe can't possibly be something to die from. Gah.

The riots look serious. Please be safe, folks.
 

lizmonster

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I'm quite disgusted by the news that they're trying to partly blame medical conditions for the poor's man death. Like a cop putting a knee on somebody's neck so he can't breathe can't possibly be something to die from. Gah.

It's also not remotely relevant. But this is a longstanding tactic: "it was just this one guy; there's no systemic violence against black and other non-white people, really."

Which has been BS for the entire life of this country.
 

Introversion

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It's also not remotely relevant. But this is a longstanding tactic: "it was just this one guy; there's no systemic violence against black and other non-white people, really."

It’s also a form of victim-blaming. “Well, if he wasn’t weak he wouldn’tve died.”
 

shakeysix

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For a fake $20. bill? The clerk who called the police called her boss crying because of what the cops were doing to this man.
I was all in for Klobuchar until I saw her trying to explain her past actions. Sounded sincere and logical but something in her face seemed squeamish.
 

Roxxsmom

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Yep. Just saw some other footage of a female reporter being targeted by police. I guess targeting reporters is to be expected after years of being told that the press is the enemy of the people, though.

This exactly.

One thing that worries me most is that the police are among Trump's biggest supporters, and they've been known to cheer when he encourages them to be more brutal with suspects. Will they remember their oaths to uphold the law and protect the Constitution if he is defeated in November and refuses to step down?

There seems to be an unfortunate selection effect with police in this country, where people with sadistic tendencies and control issues are attracted to the job. Or maybe being in this position of everyday power over people brings sadism out. Or maybe both. Add racism to the mix, and the situation is irredeemably toxic.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/2528-police-corruption

https://gen.medium.com/i-was-a-cop-...-participated-in-abuses-of-power-8d057c18f9ee

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...e-racist-and-violent-and-theres-only-one-fix/

I think many, maybe even most, police departments need to be completely disbanded, all their officers (and especially management) fired, and they need to be rebuilt from the ground up with a completely new culture. Even the "good" cops cover for the bad ones, and they circle the wagons when their own commit even the most heinous of crimes.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...ll-testify-investigation-database/2233386001/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/10/californias-criminal-cops-convicted-but-stay-on-the-job/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

We'd need find a way to get people of integrity involved in policing and to purge the sadists and those who protect them, but I haven't a clue how we will muster the resources or political will to do this at the societal level, especially when policing is so locally controlled in the US.
 
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MaeZe

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Thanks for that. What a mess. False information starts spreading on a dime. The 911 inside job myth started with a CD (yes kids before DVDs we had video CDs) that spread quite quickly. But still it wasn't instant access worldwide like we have now. Trump looks like he started the post-truth world, but in-fact he's a product of it. It started with social media and grew from there.