Are You Embarrassed by Writing?

lizmonster

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It's when you've published novels and those novels are selling that a lot of people get excited.

IME, "a lot" is a pretty big number, and the sort of attention you attract isn't always going to be terrific.

Writing is my job, and I tell people this. I don't sell well, but it's still my job.
 

indianroads

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Writing and publishing my books is only part of what I do. IMO, having the sum-total of my physical and mental energy poured into one thing would be rather dull.

I'm a martial artist, I don't have my own dojang (training hall) anymore, but I still teach private lessons... and I'm gearing up to start competing again (after the sequester ends) after a 30+ year hiatus (in the old-fart divisions).

I'm a biker, and take several cross country rides on my motorcycle every summer. I used to write about that on my blog, but I've switched to promoting my books now.

Oh - and I write novels too. A lot of people don't care for SciFi, and that's ok. I explain that the genre is good for exploring societal concepts and philosophies... and it's good fun too.
 

indianroads

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IME, "a lot" is a pretty big number, and the sort of attention you attract isn't always going to be terrific.

Writing is my job, and I tell people this. I don't sell well, but it's still my job.

That's the way I approach it as well.
Morning = coffee with my partner (we have a splendid view of Pikes Peak and the Rocky Mountain Rampart Range).
Majority of the day = doing my JOB, in my office writing.
Evening = socializing with friends (the sequester is easing here) or watching television.
 

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At the moment it feels to me the way I imagine opening a restaurant might feel.

Maybe you open a restaurant because you love to cook. You may or may not be the best cook in the world. Good chance you aren't.

You discover there's more to running a restaurant than cooking. You either take on the other stuff, or you don't. If you do, maybe you end up with a little place in a strip mall somewhere. You name it 'Bistro on Fifth' because that's fun.

And some people like your food, and your family is supportive, and sometimes there's good buzz in the paper, too, but you don't get a Michelin Star or anything, and occasionally someone says the seafood is really bad and you think to yourself 'I don't serve seafood.'

You might not make ends meet. You have a periodic rat problem.

So, if what 'you do' came up in conversation, and you say, "I run a restaurant," people might have misconceptions about what that means. They're consumers. They don't need to know all the other stuff.

But you still cook, and make sure your permits are in order, and try to keep the entrance to the dining room tidy.

I don't think I'd be embarrassed, per se, if I tried to open a restaurant. I'm not embarrassed to say that I write novels.

(Some poetry I wrote in my youth embarrasses me, but that's different, and it's life.)
 
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indianroads

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At the moment it feels to me the way I imagine opening a restaurant might feel.

Maybe you open a restaurant because you love to cook. You may or may not be the best cook in the world. Good chance you aren't.

You discover there's more to running a restaurant than cooking. You either take the other stuff on, or you don't. If you do, maybe you end up with a little place in a strip mall somewhere.

And some people like your food, and your family is supportive, and sometimes there's good buzz in the paper, too, but you don't get a Michelin Star or anything, and occasionally someone turns up their nose at your efforts and you might not even make ends meet. You even have a periodic rat problem.

If what 'you do' came up in conversation, people would probably have misconceptions about the nuts and the bolts of the thing.

But you still cook, and make sure your permits are in order, and try to keep the entrance to the dining room tidy. I don't think I'd be embarrassed, per se, if I tried to open a restaurant. I'm not embarrassed to say that I write novels.

(Some poetry I wrote in my youth embarrasses me, but that's different, and it's life.)

Good analogy. Both opening a restaurant and writing a novel are the pursuit of dreams, and often, what we receive from such efforts isn't monetary - instead it's self satisfaction which in many ways is more important.

The highlighted area above reminded me of something.

I'm a retired Silicon Valley Design Engineer - and as such I spent a LOT of time diddling with mechanical and electrical CAD systems. One morning arrived at work and found a 'Marketing Weenie' (yes, I'm convinced that was his job title) sitting at my desk staring at my terminal. He was wondering why a product he has proposed one afternoon was taking weeks to design. I watched as he stared at the colorful lines and circles were on display - and he said, "This is pretty, it looks like fun". I told him fine, he can take a shift, then pointed and said you need to figure out how to fix X in this area, and complete this part of the project... I'll be back in 14 hours, and it better be done. I then left, and he chased me down the aisle asking me nicely to come back.

So yeah, there's a lot more to the nuts and bolts of writing that most people think.
 

Cephus

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At the moment it feels to me the way I imagine opening a restaurant might feel.

Maybe you open a restaurant because you love to cook. You may or may not be the best cook in the world. Good chance you aren't.

You discover there's more to running a restaurant than cooking. You either take on the other stuff, or you don't. If you do, maybe you end up with a little place in a strip mall somewhere. You name it 'Bistro on Fifth' because that's fun.

And some people like your food, and your family is supportive, and sometimes there's good buzz in the paper, too, but you don't get a Michelin Star or anything, and occasionally someone says the seafood is really bad and you think to yourself 'I don't serve seafood.'

You might not make ends meet. You have a periodic rat problem.

So, if what 'you do' came up in conversation, and you say, "I run a restaurant," people might have misconceptions about what that means. They're consumers. They don't need to know all the other stuff.

But you still cook, and make sure your permits are in order, and try to keep the entrance to the dining room tidy.

I don't think I'd be embarrassed, per se, if I tried to open a restaurant. I'm not embarrassed to say that I write novels.

(Some poetry I wrote in my youth embarrasses me, but that's different, and it's life.)

That is a fantastic analogy. Of course, anyone who asks you about your restaurant, you're not going to launch into the day-to-day drudgery that happens behind the scenes, any more than a writer should when someone asks. If it's another writer, sure. Commiserate together. As a consumer or even someone who is just being polite, they just don't care so long as you produce a saleable product they can buy, if they choose to. I wouldn't be embarrassed to say I ran a restaurant if I did, I'm certainly not embarrassed to say that I write books. I'm just not going to bore anyone with the details.
 

mccardey

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Good analogy.

I dunno - usually if you run a resto - well, everyone eats and is interested in food and has enough experience with cooking and with eating out that a conversation can form around that. "Really what sort of food? Where?" If you've already opened a restaurant, we know where we stand. You probably cook better than I do, and but there's still a heap of stuff we can talk about, with you as the acknowledged resto-owner and me as the acknowledged food-fan. (I am not actually a food-fan, but this is analogy, right?)

If you say "I write novels" it's much more - perilous, it seems. "Really? I love reading!" is safe but people tend to say either "Are you published?" or "Can I read them?" or "What are you writing now?" all of which feel - or can feel, and do to some - hard to progress into a safe conversation. It's tends toward one word answers and then when they say they've just opened a restaurant they feel awkward (I always worry) because they chose a much more chattable career.

This may be just me. I always worry inordinately about people I don't know. On the other hand, in writing it out, I just invented the word chattable. You're very welcome.
 

Chris P

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I have yet to overhear a customer tell the owner of an Italian pizzeria he should really open a pho place with sushi fusion.

Me? I say I like to write adult mainstream and get told I really should consider YA or dark fantasy, because that's what's REALLY cool.
 

MythMonger

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There is one aspect of writing I'm somewhat embarrassed about: just how slow it all can be.

For example, I've taken about two years to get my current manuscript in shape enough to query. This is down from four years for my first manuscript which I started a decade ago, but still.

Now even if I find an agent (several months) and can sell the book (more months), it's what, another two years to get it trade published? Maybe that last number is on the long side.

So let's say I mentioned I was starting a manuscript to a friend who knew nothing about writing. I'm also fortunate enough to get it trade published. That's, what, a 4-5 year gap between starting and the point they can read it? I'm sure this hypothetical friend would think I was doing it wrong. Hey, maybe I am. :)

Outside of my closest family, I've decided I won't mention I'm a writer until they can click a link and buy the book.
 

indianroads

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I dunno - usually if you run a resto - well, everyone eats and is interested in food and has enough experience with cooking and with eating out that a conversation can form around that.
[...]
This may be just me. I always worry inordinately about people I don't know. On the other hand, in writing it out, I just invented the word chattable. You're very welcome.

Comparing operating a restaurant to writing is a decent analogy in that most people see both activities as simple and something they could easily do.

I cook, so I know what's needed to run a restaurant (wrong: a restaurant is a business, you scrambling eggs in your kitchen is not).

I can type and write letters, so I can write a novel (wrong: a like running a restaurant, it's a lot more complex and difficult than it appears on the surface).

BTW: chattable is a good word.
 

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Sometimes I think writing is like cooking. (Like when reading excerpts. "The balance is off. More swear words to add spice. (or fewer.) More narrative as a basic starch (or less), and so on. This excerpt has too much salt. It needs more... I'm not sure. Try a little cream.) Running a restaurant is more than cooking; it's cooking but-also-the-rest-of-it, and FWIW as a customer I don't usually think past the food. When it comes to writing, the people I talk with (who don't usually think much past the story) are surprised to learn things like how there's formatting stage between writing (Times New Roman 12 point, double spaced with numbered pages and your contact info in the top header), and the product on Amazon. Hell, they're surprised that some books on Amazon are published by big name houses and some are self-published. Like... Ruth Chris Steakhouse (or whatever) versus the back yard grill.

Sometimes writing feels less like cooking and more like sculpting to me (throw as much clay as the wheel will hold, then carve off the ugly bits.) That's probably when I'm deep in the weeds of my own story instead of critique group.

Sometimes woodworking. Fit each joint exactly. Dovetails are prettier than nails or screws. Lots of polishing.

Sometimes like building a house, as I imagine that must go. Gotta frame first; paint color can wait til the end.

At the moment, cooking is my go-to analogy, but I'm heavy into the zoom critique meets right now, and seeing lots of cuisines and also lots of liberties taken with ingredients.
 
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Cephus

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There is one aspect of writing I'm somewhat embarrassed about: just how slow it all can be.

For example, I've taken about two years to get my current manuscript in shape enough to query. This is down from four years for my first manuscript which I started a decade ago, but still.

Now even if I find an agent (several months) and can sell the book (more months), it's what, another two years to get it trade published? Maybe that last number is on the long side.

So let's say I mentioned I was starting a manuscript to a friend who knew nothing about writing. I'm also fortunate enough to get it trade published. That's, what, a 4-5 year gap between starting and the point they can read it? I'm sure this hypothetical friend would think I was doing it wrong. Hey, maybe I am. :)

Outside of my closest family, I've decided I won't mention I'm a writer until they can click a link and buy the book.

It's not on the long side. Between the time you sign the contract and the time you see it on the shelf is 18-24 months on average. It takes a very, very long time.
 

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I avoid talking about my writing in most situations. Some of it’s college overexposure to the creative writing major, black-beret-and-coffeeshop crowd, and a resulting allergy to being lumped in with them. Some of it’s that, as others have said, the act of writing is just not that interesting save to other writers.

But mostly I think writing occupies this very awkward headspace in Western culture. In large part it’s because books just aren’t that common a form of entertainment any more. I don’t mind admitting I’m a writer to avid readers because they say reader things like “what’s it about?” or “what kind of thing do you write” or “oh, that’s amazing, I love books, have you read this one....” It doesn’t even matter if they don’t read my genre. Readers get it. But someone who reads less than five books a year* is by definition someone who doesn’t really understand what books are for, much less what a writer is or does, and is left groping for whatever context our weird culture gives us.

Sometimes that’s “someone who makes a lot of money”. Are you a millionaire like John Grisham yet? Really? Why not? And because this conversation focuses on the book as a product, the inevitable bewildered question: then what are you writing for?

And on the other end there’s the people for whom books are Art, something studied in school or grimly ground through to acquire Culture. The revaluation that you are an Artist immediately puts them on the defensive; either they’re going to display plumage by talking about all the Very Meaningful Books they have read (or at least put strategically on display on their only bookshelf), or they’re going to do a reverse display and tell you about how they don’t have time for reading, haven’t read a thing since high school, if they did it would be nonfiction, etc.

Murphy’s Law always applies here. Those of us writing genre fiction always get the Art Guy who wants to tell us how we should be writing serious books, not wasting our time and talent, while writers on the literary end always get Product Guy telling them how they should be writing the next Twilight because That’s Where The Money Is.

(The final category are the people who don’t read, but their best friend’s husband’s cousin is ALSO A WRITER, isn’t that great, they’ll bring you their book since all readers and all books are alike! And because Murphy’s Law, this will inevitably be a sloppily edited vanity published and/or first draft novel in the genre you dislike the most.)

We aren’t a culture suited to understanding writers. So I don’t talk about my writing if I can avoid it. I’m socially awkward enough on my own, thanks.



* Almost half the US population, for the curious.
 

The Black Prince

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My brother is a physicist, and he talks about two reactions: the Physics "Ah," and the Physics Pause:

Person: What do you do?
Liz's brother: I'm a physicist.
Person: Ah! <change of subject>

Or:

Person: What do you do?
Liz's brother: I'm a physicist.
Person: ... ... ... ... ... Ah! <change of subject>
Your brother moves in the wrong circles Liz. I would plague him with questions as I plague every scientist I meet - not least as I have a tendency to invent new fields of scientific endeavour for my spec fiction stories and want it to at least seem plausible.

As far as embarrassment goes, I made the decision to get serious about writing in 1992 and have never been shy about it. Mind you, I have seen the full spectrum of responses over the years when it comes to writing conversations. At the start, I got the snide "pipe dream" comments (which never bothered me - I've always been realistic about it), but as I gradually transitioned from dilettante to author with books in the airports, the comments changed.

I'm happy to say that my friends, family and local community now characterise me as a writer before anything else, even though I mostly make my living from my profession.

It's a nice place to be but it took a really long time to get there. And if I'd been doing it just for the money I'd probably have topped myself by now.
 
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The Black Prince

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My brother is a physicist, and he talks about two reactions: the Physics "Ah," and the Physics Pause:

Person: What do you do?
Liz's brother: I'm a physicist.
Person: Ah! <change of subject>

Or:

Person: What do you do?
Liz's brother: I'm a physicist.
Person: ... ... ... ... ... Ah! <change of subject>
Your brother moves in the wrong circles Liz. I would plague him with questions as I plague every scientist I meet - not least as I have a tendency to invent technology for my spec fiction stories and want it to at least seem plausible.

As far as embarrassment goes, I made the decision to get serious about writing in 1992 and have never been shy about it. Mind you, I have seen the full spectrum of responses over the years when it comes to writing conversations. At the start, I got the snide "pipe dream" comments (which never bothered me - I've always been realistic about it), but as I gradually transitioned from dilettante to author with books in the airports, the comments changed.

I'm happy to say that my friends, family and local community now characterise me as a writer before anything else, even though I mostly make my living from my profession.

It's a nice place to be but it took a really long time to get there. And if I'd been doing it just for the money I'd probably have topped myself by now.
 

mccardey

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Your brother moves in the wrong circles Liz.

<snip>

As far as embarrassment goes, I made the decision to get serious about writing in 1992 and have never been shy about it.

<snip>

I'm happy to say that my friends, family and local community now characterise me as a writer before anything else, even though I mostly make my living from my profession.

Mind you, I'm a man.
 

Ravioli

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I'm not embarrassed by the fact that I write. On my father's side, we're generations of writers and I take pride in that. What embarrasses me, is WHAT I write. I don't want people who know me, to know that I enjoy coming up with that kind of stories, drama, and sometimes, pure cringe. I don't want them to see what kinds of things can go on in my head.
 

angeliz2k

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It's not really that I'm embarrassed about writing, but, if I'm honest, that I'm embarrassed that nothing has come of all my years of hard work.

I mean, I have completed several novels, but none has been published and I don't have an agent (I had one for a while and had to drop her).

I say I write, and the question is always whether I plan to get published. As if it's merely a matter of my wanting to be published. It's not that easy, of course. So I have to launch into an explanation of how difficult the publishing biz is, and then I sound sullen and bitter (which I am but don't really want to be). And I feel like I come across as a self-deluded dilettante who thinks they're brilliant and that the world (and publishing biz) owes them. I'm fairly certain people don't realize quite how serious I am about my writing--they think I'm dabbling and probably not very good, because I haven't gone anywhere with my writing. I just don't like the pity and perhaps contempt that results from bringing up the topic.

I also get the "why don't you write this" thing. "Everyone loves vampires." "Just write a book about cats, people love cats." "What about Harry Potter in space?" Dudes. I write historical fiction. Can you, like, get a grip?

All this requires a lot more mental and emotional effort than I have any desire to expend. So I don't bring up writing, except with fellow writers.
 

lizmonster

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I say I write, and the question is always whether I plan to get published. As if it's merely a matter of my wanting to be published. It's not that easy, of course. So I have to launch into an explanation of how difficult the publishing biz is, and then I sound sullen and bitter (which I am but don't really want to be). And I feel like I come across as a self-deluded dilettante who thinks they're brilliant and that the world (and publishing biz) owes them. I'm fairly certain people don't realize quite how serious I am about my writing--they think I'm dabbling and probably not very good, because I haven't gone anywhere with my writing. I just don't like the pity and perhaps contempt that results from bringing up the topic.

Very much this. People who don't know publishing have some completely erroneous ideas about how it works. (I can't blame them; I used to have the same ones.) If you say you write and they haven't heard of you, then either you're not trying hard enough, or you're not any good, and the tone of the conversation turns, and it's really hard not to get defensive.

FWIW, when I started explaining how publishing works to my therapist, her mouth dropped open and she stared at me speechless for about 30 seconds.
 

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I wonder if it's to do with geography too.

There are a ton of writers in southern California. Every fifth house has a writer living there, (OK not really but sort of, or a person who does lights or sound or animation or casting or costumes or production or...) mostly writers for the industry. This is one of the reasons there are so many critique groups nearby. A lot of them are actually screenwriter groups, though I go to the novel groups, natch. So anyway, the libraries and neighbors and schools and whatnot--they don't bat an eye when anyone says any of that.

Guy down the street lives in a lower-end nondescript house, you wouldn't think anything of it, and it is wild at halloween because he has the best 'Haunted House' you can imagine. He gets all his buddies (actors, musicians, lighting, special effects, makeup, set design...) to come up with some theme each year (western, gothic, space...) and transforms his yard into a ten-room haunted house. It is mind-blowing. Fog machines and sound effects, motion-activated this and that, ... (and giant candy bars at the end.)

If you ever caught The Santa Clarita Diet, neighborhoods look exactly like that, here, very cookie-cutter, but there is a lot of creative talent all around. So. Maybe part of the reason I don't find it embarrassing to say "I'm a writer" is because I live here. In Indiana, the whole experience would be quite different.
 
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People rarely ask me, and most who know I'm a writer assume it's a creative outlet or hobby. I don't find the label of 'writer' embarrassing, but I'm often embarrassed by how long it's taken me to get where I am (and how far I have left to go!) and that I am unable to make a living from my writing, even though that is the only job I have currently (aside from being a writing tutor).

I'm also a bit embarrassed by people's reactions when they read my work. I read a wide variety of books, fiction and nonfiction alike, and most people view me as a 'Serious, Educated Person' who likes nothing more than research papers and being in a classroom. Which is true! Yet, the writing that I love and lights me up is carefree, silly fantasies that are full of puns, friendship, and nonsensical pop culture references. So, if people read my work, it doesn't fit with the person they (think they) know and that makes for uncomfortable conversations.
 

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When I tell people I'm a Celticist, they think I mean I'm a Neo Pagan believer/Druid.

When I tell people I'm a writer, most often they immediately assume that a) I'm unpublished and b) I write romance.

I now have a spiel.

"I write technical documentation for consumer end-users and developers."

They hear the word technical, their eyes glaze over, and they leave me alone. I'm good with that.