bullet fragment lodged in bone - long term - 19th cent.

Status
Not open for further replies.

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
1,281
Location
Virginia, USA
Of course this forum has a plethora of gunshot threads, but most are about the immediate outcome.

I'm trying to fit the injury to the desired result, which is recovery with some slight permanent damage that's more annoying that disabling. My character is a young woman who's firing from partial cover of stacked stone and gets hit with a black powder rifle bullet that ricochets off the rocks and breaks. I'm thinking one of the pieces goes into her arm at a shallow angle and lodges in the humerus but doesn't have enough force to break it. Antiseptics had just been discovered and they're in a major city, but she's effectively a wanted criminal and treatment mostly consists of bandages and a lot of liquor while hiding out trying not to get caught. IF she can control infection (possibly with the help of maggots, for extra ick), is it plausible the wound could heal with full use of the arm but occasional pain? Aches when the weather changes, difficulty sleeping on that side, the general irritation of having lead where it shouldn't be...?

(I'm basing this somewhat on personal experience of having ORIF hardware in my ankle, it doesn't bother me but it's just...there, plus it's weird being able to feel the screws under the skin.)

After fleeing from the authorities, her story about the scar is that it's shrapnel from said city being shelled several months before. Where this could be a problem is going through US immigrant medical screening at Castle Garden about 4-5 months post-injury. I'm guessing a former Civil War doc could tell this was fresher than almost a year, even allowing for malnutrition causing slower healing. The screening was mostly to make sure people could earn a living, but...let's just say politics complicates everything.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,832
Reaction score
6,591
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
"is it plausible the wound could heal with full use of the arm but occasional pain?"

It's very possible. Look into bullets or spear heads found in mummies or skeletons. The Iceman had a spearhead lodged in his shoulder.

Often these have clear evidence the person lived with the embedded metal for quite a while.
 
Last edited:

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,674
Reaction score
6,573
Location
west coast, canada
What's the time, and the situation? I was under the impression that most of the immigrant medical screenings were for chronic and contagious diseases. TB, STD's, so forth. Things that would be a danger or an expense to America.

If an old injury has healed, and your character is going about her business, why would anyone be much interested?
 

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
1,281
Location
Virginia, USA
What's the time, and the situation? I was under the impression that most of the immigrant medical screenings were for chronic and contagious diseases. TB, STD's, so forth. Things that would be a danger or an expense to America.

If an old injury has healed, and your character is going about her business, why would anyone be much interested?

Yeah, I was leaving out vital information on the politics. It's 1871, she's French and was shot fighting for the Paris Commune. There's a big difference between that and being collateral damage from the war with Prussia. The newspapers of the time played up women as responsible for the arson fires so bullets would at least be less suspicious than burns...
 

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
872
Location
Connecticut
I agree with frimble3: US immigration health screening was mostly about controlling contagious disease and keeping out people who were obviously going to become a charge on the public. Large numbers of people would have presented every day with wounds and scars in various stages of healing, and none of them would have gotten more than a cursory glance as long as the person was otherwise functional. Unless she's visibly deranged or proclaiming dangerous political slogans they're not likely to do more than note the existence of her injury and wave her through.
 

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
1,281
Location
Virginia, USA
I agree with frimble3: US immigration health screening was mostly about controlling contagious disease and keeping out people who were obviously going to become a charge on the public. Large numbers of people would have presented every day with wounds and scars in various stages of healing, and none of them would have gotten more than a cursory glance as long as the person was otherwise functional. Unless she's visibly deranged or proclaiming dangerous political slogans they're not likely to do more than note the existence of her injury and wave her through.

Awesome, thanks! That confirms what I've read. It really is a great way to show the difference between America and old Europe. (Shame we're the ones with an idiot emperor these days....)
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,832
Reaction score
6,591
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
They didn't have Xrays in 1871. How would they see it even if they cared? And I agree, US immigration would not care about a scar or pain in an arm.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,674
Reaction score
6,573
Location
west coast, canada
And if anyone did notice, and said "That looks like a bullet-wound, ma'am?"
A practical response would be along the lines of "Oui, monsieur, 'ave you not 'eard, in France they are fighting in the streets! I was 'it coming from a funeral! It is madness there, and I am so 'appy to be safely 'ere."
 

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
9,239
Reaction score
2,316
Location
Oregon, USA
Terrific French accent, Frimble. I could hear it even though I'm deaf. :applause:

a young woman who's firing [upon while behind] partial cover of stacked stone and gets hit with a black powder rifle bullet that ricochets off the rocks and breaks.

There's excellent medical advice here, so I'll offer something lesser. Not to go too gun-ho (as adverse to gung-ho), but I'm sure you meant lead rifle bullet, because black powder continued as a propellant well into the jacketed bullet era. For instance, the .30-30 Winchester was so named because it used either lead or jacketed 30-caliber rounds and 30 grains of black powder. :greenie
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,674
Reaction score
6,573
Location
west coast, canada
Terrific French accent, Frimble. I could hear it even though I'm deaf. :applause:
I'm glad. In Canada, all government speeches are also signed - in both French and English. In that spirit, I try to cover all bases.
 

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
1,281
Location
Virginia, USA
And if anyone did notice, and said "That looks like a bullet-wound, ma'am?"
A practical response would be along the lines of "Oui, monsieur, 'ave you not 'eard, in France they are fighting in the streets! I was 'it coming from a funeral! It is madness there, and I am so 'appy to be safely 'ere."

Interestingly, they would have heard, and almost in real time - this was one of the first big stories coming through the transatlantic telegraph cable. Heather Cox Richardson mentioned this on her Facebook Live history lecture earlier this week in fact.

It's always a balance trying to write accents and dialect. Then you've got POV and misunderstandings between characters... :Shrug:

Terrific French accent, Frimble. I could hear it even though I'm deaf. :applause:

There's excellent medical advice here, so I'll offer something lesser. Not to go too gun-ho (as adverse to gung-ho), but I'm sure you meant lead rifle bullet, because black powder continued as a propellant well into the jacketed bullet era. For instance, the .30-30 Winchester was so named because it used either lead or jacketed 30-caliber rounds and 30 grains of black powder. :greenie

This was an interesting era for firearms. The round in question was 11mm from a Chassepot, which was bolt-action but still using paper catridges. Then you have the communards using whatever they could their hands on, like 1840s muzzle loaders coverted to breech with a bolt action that looked like a snuffbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabatière_rifle

Am I right in thinking the Chassepot is more like to do what I want it to than something more powerful like their equivalent of the Gatling? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse
 

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
9,239
Reaction score
2,316
Location
Oregon, USA
Am I right in thinking the Chassepot is more like to do what I want it to than something more powerful like their equivalent of the Gatling?

As you know, I'm quite elderly, and you may have gathered by its name, I was instrumental in developing the chassepot in my early years. :guns: You're correct that its heavy 385-grain bullet (compared to a popular .30-30 bullet weighing 150 grains) would have lots lead left over after fragmenting on nearby stone. Approximately 85 grains of black powder would also give it enough zip to do the job you describe. Good research. :greenie
 

CWatts

down the rabbit hole of research...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
1,281
Location
Virginia, USA
Thanks to everyone who replied! Reps given, let me know if I missed you. (Great pun, Chase!)

So research is having me shorten the timeline to just shy of 3 months post-injury. She also had a nasty slash along the ribs on the other side from a bayonet. I'm trying to figure out how much trouble these would be giving her at that point - mostly the muscle damage is what I am thinking. Of course spending a couple weeks seasick would not help at all...

Should I even go there with possible lead poisoning? TBH the Gilded Age was so toxic with lead and arsenic in damn near everything I'm not sure if a bullet would matter much.

Immigration officials are going to show a lot of kindness after bearing the sad news the friend who was going to help her get settled had been killed in the Westfield ferry explosion....
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.