Color, Manipulation, and Readers (Something About Epubs)

Shirokirie · May 18, 2020

Greetings. I'm an experimental writer ─ gotta preface with this just so you might get where my sadistic ecstasy comes from (yes, you've my permission to leave if you've read this far and feel you need to. lol).

I was mucking around in Sigil, doing the tedious Pass the Validator work in the manifest and style sheets, etc, when it just so happened to slap me that it is entirely possible to muck up the page and text until it's beyond recognition. As much as I enjoy doing things the right way, it's also first nature to do it ass-backwardsly wrong (hence 'experimental.' I just can't get it right).

So, I wanted to open the door to some opinions:

If you came across a book that featured a black page, with the text being primarily white, though colored where relevant (per story needs), would you be put off by it?

Would a standard white page, mainly black text, and colored-as-needed sections work better for you?

Is this one of those things that shouldn't be touched at all?

(optional) Should it be spelled Nuggit, Nuggyt, or Nuggot?

I appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you.

lizmonster · May 18, 2020

What you're talking about, I think, is more a multimedia work than a straight work of prose. And with that in mind? It would really depend on why it was being done and how it fit with that part of the work. If there was a reason for a particular page to be white-on-black, I'd roll with it. If not? It'd probably annoy me, at least after a while.

TL;DR: It's all in the execution. I wouldn't automatically reject something for it.

(You are locking yourself out of ebooks, pretty much, but that may not be a concern.)

ETA: So much for my reading comprehension! In an ebook? Nope. I won't buy an ebook with fixed formatting, and that includes color.

frimble3 · May 18, 2020

Eww. White print on black? If it was one page, and served a purpose, ie to show the boundary between alternate universes, maybe. I have an aversion to eye-strain.

As to 'coloured as relevant' or 'coloured as needed', maybe if I understood why it was relevant or needed? But it sounds gimmicky as heck.

Brightdreamer · May 18, 2020

How would "color as needed" work on an eInk screen (grayscale)? Not everyone reads e-books on full-color tablets or phones...

I have seen print books use white-on-black for very, very limited stretches, but "color as needed"... that I've never seen that I recall, outside maybe a picture book. You'd be driving up the cost of a print book, and for e-books, as mentioned, the effect might easily be lost.

Is it worth it to you, that your intended effect might only be seen and appreciated by a limited audience? If so, have at it.

Marissa D · May 18, 2020

Seconding Brightdreamer about ereaders using eInk; too much mucking around with ebook formatting is just going to get lost on some devices.

PyriteFool · May 18, 2020

You can absolutely do it, but I think the story has to work without color just due to the practical concerns already outlined. Think House of Leaves. Some printings had certain words in color, which is cool, but it’s a nice bonus. Not necessary for enjoyment. I also echo the concerns about eye strain.

Marian Perera · May 18, 2020

There's no way I would read an entire page of white-on-black print, but if it was only a short paragraph or a few lines, then it would depend on the story. Basically, what everyone else said about eye strain applies.

dpaterso · May 19, 2020

I'm reading this thread with Dark Reader active, the text is white and the background is black, because my eyeballs do not like bright backgrounds glaring at them. So maybe yes, to answer your question. I dunno how a printed book would look, the printing would have to be pretty sharp, on quality paper that avoids bleeding. But device-wise, I want control over it.

which looks like this

-Derek

stephenf · May 19, 2020

I think Dpaterso post is interesting , and raises an issue I have not considered . But that a side , I have read magazines that try to make their pages more interesting by printing text of different colors on to different backgrounds . Personally, I found it to an annoying distraction . If you book is well written and enjoyable to read , How would white on black add to it's enjoyment?

Shirokirie · May 19, 2020

Lots to consider here, thank you for your responses.

stephenf said:
If you book is well written and enjoyable to read , How would white on black add to it's enjoyment?

dpaterso said:
I'm reading this thread with Dark Reader active, the text is white and the background is black, because my eyeballs do not like bright backgrounds glaring at them. [...] But device-wise, I want control over it.

which looks like this

-Derek

PyriteFool said:
You can absolutely do it, but I think the story has to work without color just due to the practical concerns already outlined.

Brightdreamer said:
How would "color as needed" work on an eInk screen (grayscale)? Not everyone reads e-books on full-color tablets or phones...

Is it worth it to you, that your intended effect might only be seen and appreciated by a limited audience? If so, have at it.

frimble3 said:
But it sounds gimmicky as heck.

lizmonster said:
In an ebook? Nope. I won't buy an ebook with fixed formatting, and that includes color.

It is first written with a plain screen in mind. I'm not in the least bit worried about plain screens, or the reader's need for control. It utilizes a 'layered' approach, between plain text formatting (italics, for example), typeface (alternate font), additional formatting (justification, smallcaps, etc), and finally color to further separate the section/clip/whatever from the main body of text. If someone decides to take on a book like this and strip it of all intended formatting ─ even despite a disclaimer, then they get the reading experience that they require. I take no issue with that.

Is it gimmicky? Probably, but for the few brave souls who don't mind an inverted page (white-on-black), the purpose of the black is to bring the colors to the fore. Again, it's about further distinguishing the mechanisms at work. This case in particular, it is a matter of aliens 'speaking' with non-verbal cues. The color accompanies the typeface to denote what is speaking to the-other-what. Stripped of face and color, it is set apart with italics and left-or-right justification in an almost sms-style presentation. I imagine even users of eInk readers could manage that.

The third thing: Like Derek, I also have vision peculiarities. When writing, the editor is by default white-on-black. It helps me with my blind spots, especially with my botched right eye. Instead of holes and entire words disappearing, my brain has an easier time filling in the blanks with A) uniform darkness, and B) the white lines my left eye picks up. Effectively, it sort of restores my vision. I guess I'm too used to it. :tongue

L.C. Blackwell · May 24, 2020

I don't know about everyone else, but for me personally, that would be about the fastest way to get the book pitched into the dust bin, or deleted. If I'm reading a story, I want to be lost in the story. I don't want artsy distractions with the way the text appears, or find myself struggling to figure out what in the world the author meant to convey.

Put another way, a reader generally has a fairly narrow attention span, hence all the emphasis on the first line/paragraph/page. If you pull someone's attention away from suspension of disbelief to focus on the technical aspects, or make them work harder, you'll probably lose the majority of readers.

neandermagnon · May 25, 2020

Dyslexic person's answer: fixed font and fixed colour formatting in unusual colours and fonts is potentially problematic. I can't read all fonts easily and some background colours also make reading difficult (both white on black and black on white tend to be problematic - black text on a softer colour is better although it's very individual which colour). If I can't change these things to put it in a format that I can read comfortably, I'll find a different book to read.

AW Admin · May 25, 2020

None of the ereaders I know of will support overriding a user's settings.

This is not going to work unless you distribute solely in a DRMd .pdf

Shirokirie · May 31, 2020

Taking everything in, the more I give it thought, the less I worry about it. Then I'm not concerned at all, because readers are gunna read, and do so in the way they require. I'm still just dandy with that.

Lingering question then is if this is all wasted effort. I hear a resounding "YES, DUH!" but not from me.

This was a good dive into such a subject, and I appreciate your responses. I'll digest these thoughts a bit longer, but as it stands, I'm still writing it wrong. Not for the sake of being stubborn, but these nonsensical nuances are a good deal of what I enjoy when it comes to putting the words together. I can't explain my position any better than that.

Thank you again.

Color, Manipulation, and Readers (Something About Epubs)

Shirokirie

Leers at you awkwardly

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

PyriteFool

Marian Perera

starting over

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

stephenf

Shirokirie

Leers at you awkwardly

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

neandermagnon

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

AW Admin

Shirokirie

Leers at you awkwardly

Color, Manipulation, and Readers (Something About Epubs)

*Leers at you awkwardly*

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Heckuva good sport

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Scribe of the girls in the basement

starting over

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

*Leers at you awkwardly*

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

*Leers at you awkwardly*

Leers at you awkwardly

Leers at you awkwardly

Leers at you awkwardly