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Why Do So Many Endings Fall Flat?
- Thread starter gothicangel
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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)
I'm wondering if the problem of bad endings has to do with the emphasis put on beginnings? So many people in the profession tell us that the first however many pages of the ms have to be strong before anyone will touch it. And yeah, there are those who say to read the whole thing through and proofread it. But how often do we hear, Be sure to check that your ending works? There've been a few threads here on the topic, but nowhere near as many as about how to start.
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal
I'm wondering if the problem of bad endings has to do with the emphasis put on beginnings? So many people in the profession tell us that the first however many pages of the ms have to be strong before anyone will touch it. And yeah, there are those who say to read the whole thing through and proofread it. But how often do we hear, Be sure to check that your ending works? There've been a few threads here on the topic, but nowhere near as many as about how to start.
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal
Siri--Start the thread!!! 
Helix's post got me thinking that besides pantser/plotter there's also been the plot/character and the literary/genre (and probably other) discussions/false divides here and elsewhere.
Not to derail the thread further (I'm putting my hand out to be slapped) but to me, the first thing to figure out is the purpose of the story. Like, the theme or question or reason it must be told. And thanks to you guys, I'm a bigger believer in the importance of 'antagonism' than I was a few years ago--so the protagonism and antagonism (and their reasons for why they are) should be clear too, before the story is started. (Caveat: these are not rules.)
(Engage random story generator): A story where the theme is 'the nature of consciousness.' A protagonistic force of a new AI in 21st century Earth. An antagonistic force of a deity holding onto his (naturally, the dying deity is a he) eroding power.
Pants or plot, your choice.
And... Go.
(Upon reflection this adds little to the thread. I suppose it is just a reflection of a view that storytelling is multifaceted. Happy weekend!)
Helix's post got me thinking that besides pantser/plotter there's also been the plot/character and the literary/genre (and probably other) discussions/false divides here and elsewhere.
Not to derail the thread further (I'm putting my hand out to be slapped) but to me, the first thing to figure out is the purpose of the story. Like, the theme or question or reason it must be told. And thanks to you guys, I'm a bigger believer in the importance of 'antagonism' than I was a few years ago--so the protagonism and antagonism (and their reasons for why they are) should be clear too, before the story is started. (Caveat: these are not rules.)
(Engage random story generator): A story where the theme is 'the nature of consciousness.' A protagonistic force of a new AI in 21st century Earth. An antagonistic force of a deity holding onto his (naturally, the dying deity is a he) eroding power.
Pants or plot, your choice.
And... Go.
(Upon reflection this adds little to the thread.
I suppose it is just a reflection of a view that storytelling is multifaceted. Happy weekend!)
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Woolleybear, that’s interesting because I’ve heard authors say the exact opposite. I think Stephen King said something like that a story should never come from theme, but that theme is found in the editing process. The theme pops up as the writer reads the story, and then the writer emphasizes the theme in editing. But that never sat right with me. A lot of the time when I write I start with something I want to say. A lot of the time I also start with character. I think the tricky thing with writing is there’s never one right way to do it.
I'm probably wrong--especially if Stephen King said the opposite, but I really feel a story needs a reason to exist before I can be bothered to spend time doing all the work. (I also like adverbs.)
I'm glad you found it interesting.
I definitely wanted my current WIP to have 'family' as a theme--what is it and how can it manifest.
The ending came from that theme.
I'm glad you found it interesting.
I definitely wanted my current WIP to have 'family' as a theme--what is it and how can it manifest.
The ending came from that theme.
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Which would be me. I have a complete story before I put the first word down and I generally follow that story to the end. There are very few instances where I go somewhere that I hadn't plotted. All of the hard work is front-loaded.
I was pretty much a pure pantser for the novel I wrote before my latest. Didn’t end well. So I made sure to lay out some plot points and to have at least a blurry version of the ending in mind before I started writing my latest novel. I think (I hope) it turned out better.
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I'm probably wrong--especially if Stephen King said the opposite, but I really feel a story needs a reason to exist before I can be bothered to spend time doing all the work. (I also like adverbs.)
Y'all know I don't believe in "wrong" about this sort of thing.
It's interesting to me, too, because although I always feel driven to write a story a particular way, I often don't get what the theme is until it's well and truly finished. Obviously my subconscious knows what's going on, but it doesn't let me in on it until afterward.I'm not unique, but there are plenty of folks like you, Woollybear, who construct that theme up front and are driven that way.
This is my approach too - I have a few events along the way formulated in my head, but pretty much everything is subject to change - and that's before I get anywhere near editing...
This is true. And as Liz mentioned up-thread, process is individual. There is no one way to plot, and there is no one way to pants.
I will say as an out-and-out pantser—one who has NO idea how my story will end—it's so much easier for me to write myself into a corner than it is for a plotter. I absolutely will write myself into a corner every dadgum time if I do not pay attention to and make use of all the tools in my toolbox as I write.
Readers don't care if we are pantsers or plotters. They just want a good read.
I have a beginning and end in mind when I start, and maybe a couple of set piece scenes, but the rest 'appears' when I start writing. No doubt I have a subconscious plotting device helping me in the background, but I get out of the way and let it do its stuff.
And I give no thought to theme. I had a interesting conversation with a reader who was impressed with a number of themes in my first novel and the way in which I'd woven them together. I had no idea what he was talking about and had not been aware of any of these themes. Since then I have quoted him when asked about themes in that book as it makes me sound very clever.
I have a beginning and end in mind when I start, and maybe a couple of set piece scenes, but the rest 'appears' when I start writing. No doubt I have a subconscious plotting device helping me in the background, but I get out of the way and let it do its stuff.
And I give no thought to theme. I had a interesting conversation with a reader who was impressed with a number of themes in my first novel and the way in which I'd woven them together. I had no idea what he was talking about and had not been aware of any of these themes. Since then I have quoted him when asked about themes in that book as it makes me sound very clever.
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It's completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether or not you finish books that people want to read. There are plenty of people, pantsers and plotters, who never actually finish anything.
I feel dissatisfied with endings a lot. Maybe it didn’t go the direction I would have liked. Or it felt like the end changed the nature of the story from what I expected or wanted. Or if it was a book I really liked, it’s dissatisfying because the conflict is wrapping up and it’s ending.
By the end, readers will have more solidly developed expectations about what they think should happen than at any other point of the story. I mean, if you don’t like the opening, you probably just won’t read it, and you’re not invested enough to strong feelings about it. Let’s say a reader gets attached to a particular character and wants something really good for them at the end. If things go badly for the character, that’s dissatisfying, and if things go well but it’s not quite what the reader wanted, it’s still dissatisfying, even if the ending is effectively earned.
Further, I suspect that readers who are also writers are probably going to have even stronger feelings about how things should wrap up at the end. I’ve noticed we can be kind of opinionated that way.
By the end, readers will have more solidly developed expectations about what they think should happen than at any other point of the story. I mean, if you don’t like the opening, you probably just won’t read it, and you’re not invested enough to strong feelings about it. Let’s say a reader gets attached to a particular character and wants something really good for them at the end. If things go badly for the character, that’s dissatisfying, and if things go well but it’s not quite what the reader wanted, it’s still dissatisfying, even if the ending is effectively earned.
Further, I suspect that readers who are also writers are probably going to have even stronger feelings about how things should wrap up at the end. I’ve noticed we can be kind of opinionated that way.
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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)
Woollybear, I do find it easier to reach a satisfying ending if I've got the theme in mind. It also helps to keep in mind what people actually do in real life.
And I'll think about posting a thread on the topic of how to reach a good ending. (Can you tell I'm a plotter? Well, sort of a plotter...)
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal
Woollybear, I do find it easier to reach a satisfying ending if I've got the theme in mind. It also helps to keep in mind what people actually do in real life.
And I'll think about posting a thread on the topic of how to reach a good ending. (Can you tell I'm a plotter? Well, sort of a plotter...)
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal
I'm an extreme improvisor. I wake up slowly each day. Sometimes a person, place, or action comes swimming up from my under-mind. I must get out of bed to capture it and exorcise it. Almost always this will start a story.
Each day I discover the next step in the story. Each day is leaping off into the abyss. After two decades I've found that I always fly. When I reach a still point in the air I teleport to another story. Or to a day/week/month mini-vacation. Ten books published and still earning money I've found my process.
I always have more than one story to work on. Right now it's five books and three shorter stories. (Yes, I'm retired. I write whenever I want, no matter what time the day or night.)
Or I don't write at all. I know after two decades that inspiration will always come. There are too many books, TV shows, movies, daily or special events, or artwork and music, to spark off inspiration. I can't NOT have inspiration. My idle consumption of even the silliest or most trivial entertainment just stores up treasure to be mined for inspiration.
(Though MINING is a poor metaphor. For me NATURE is a better one, as inspiration grows without me seeking it, often surprising me when it arrives.)
That's me, my process, perhaps no one else's.
Each day I discover the next step in the story. Each day is leaping off into the abyss. After two decades I've found that I always fly. When I reach a still point in the air I teleport to another story. Or to a day/week/month mini-vacation. Ten books published and still earning money I've found my process.
I always have more than one story to work on. Right now it's five books and three shorter stories. (Yes, I'm retired. I write whenever I want, no matter what time the day or night.)
Or I don't write at all. I know after two decades that inspiration will always come. There are too many books, TV shows, movies, daily or special events, or artwork and music, to spark off inspiration. I can't NOT have inspiration. My idle consumption of even the silliest or most trivial entertainment just stores up treasure to be mined for inspiration.
(Though MINING is a poor metaphor. For me NATURE is a better one, as inspiration grows without me seeking it, often surprising me when it arrives.)
That's me, my process, perhaps no one else's.
Have you never changed your mind when you get to the end?
I'm the consummate planner but that happens to me every time. I've been writing towards a planned ending and I get smashed between the eyes by a much better ending that was always lying dormant in the story's DNA.
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And that's all discovery, yeah?
Discovering your way towards a planned ending? (Yes, I'm kidding too...)
McCardey, did you answer my previous question? I saw a dog the image of your avatar at Avoca Beach.
This one?
Yes, I think I PMed you. Or repped you. I'm never shy about talking about Charlie....
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My trouble with being a pantser who has a semblance of an idea about the ending is my first-draft plotting looks like two people started building a road at opposite ends and didn't talk much about it.
Aside from just generally bad endings that don't make any sense, there are two endings I especially dislike. The first is when a tortured character doesn't get a proportionally appropriate happy ending (which is, admittedly, a personal preference). The second is when the denouement is mostly summarized (and double negative points if it all happened off screen while the hero was recovering). I spent all that time in the nitty-gritty details of the struggle--I deserve a seat at that victory party.
Aside from just generally bad endings that don't make any sense, there are two endings I especially dislike. The first is when a tortured character doesn't get a proportionally appropriate happy ending (which is, admittedly, a personal preference). The second is when the denouement is mostly summarized (and double negative points if it all happened off screen while the hero was recovering). I spent all that time in the nitty-gritty details of the struggle--I deserve a seat at that victory party.
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I'm glad of few of you pantsers talked about writing yourself into a corner. The last novel I completed, I was stuck and only had 70% done. The last section came to me out of nothing I had visualized before, though as I wrote the ending, it became more and more coherent.
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I'm a big pantser, but I've found my process to be that I find the ending in my first draft then add/ subtract and rework the rest of the book to make it work. My first drafts are usually a mad dash to the ending and short. My current novel was 45K in the first draft. I discarded close to 40K and am at 83K for my final manuscript. It probably is extra work, but it's what works for me.
So like another poster said... Pantsing vs. plotting makes less difference than what you do when editing.
So like another poster said... Pantsing vs. plotting makes less difference than what you do when editing.
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