Libre Writer tips? Replacement (no Word!)?

RBEmerson

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Forward: If Linux didn't usually annoy me and I have too many years of PC stuff accumulated, I wouldn't touch MickeySoft with the proverbial 10 foot Pole or 8 foot Czech (rickety boom!). Word isn't... don't ask.

That said, I'm currently using Libre Office, and have churned out a fair amount of material. But, IMHO, a writer's writer it isn't. Or am I missing something?

At this point, about all of the "gee whiz" stuff I use is auto-numbering chapters, and footer page number and (c) notice. I don't change fonts except for two (bogus) signatures (not mine).

One small detail I'd like sorted out is how many "real" pages have I produced. That is, although I'm working on 8 1/2 x 11 pages, and Palatino Linotype (variable, serif) in 12 pt., 1.5 line in-para spacing and full blank line for para spacing. I have no idea about how many pages in a common trade book size this amounts to.

Indexing for my reference (this fiction - why would I want an index??) has a low fun quotient. I rely on margin comments and a good memory (hah!!) for vital dates, character first appearance, etc. An index might be nice, I suppose.

Chapters are untitled, and that's not going to change.

So... any tips about Writer are welcome. Pointers to a "much easier to live with and does more writer-friendly stuff" word tool is welcome. If there really is something compelling in the Linux world, I'll grin and bear it.
 

Maryn

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There's no answer, really, because there's a huge variation in how many words are on a page in a print book. Font type and size, line spacing, margins and gutters, and other aspects of interior design determine how many words on the average make it to a page.

In fact, check out any much-published book (i.e., The Count of Monte Cristo) and you'll see page counts differing by hundreds in print versions of approximately the same dimensions.

That's why all that matters is word count, and Libre Office does that adequately.

I write with Libre Office (and Open Office and occasionally, Word 2016, which I detest) and I find exactly zero need for the fancy or fun elements you seem to be missing. I manage to number my chapters without its assistance, never use a copyright notice (since nobody who doesn't respect copyright is getting their hands on it), and don't number my pages at the bottom.

You are, of course, free to compose in any format you like, but when and if you submit, you're going to have to undo some of what you prefer to make it conform to standard submission format.

Maryn, formerly of the southwest
 

VeryBigBeard

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I use Libre, have for a long time. about my only beef with it is that it's still quasi-open-source, which means you get some weird ideas come down the pipe in the updates sometimes. I roll it back on an old version because they decided being able to independently zoom the view w/in Libre was entirely unnecessary. It's not. Yes, Windows has accessibility tools and they do what they need to do, but I don't actually want to zoom my whole OS when I'm beta-reading something. I just want the interface bigger so my eyes don't hurt as much after four hours. Come on.

Anyway. As Maryn says, when it comes time for publishing, you'll want to use standard MS format, which is a bit arcane but not actually difficult. Most word processors, including Libre Office, have far more features than you need to write a book. Use whichever works for you, and don't sweat it.

If you want a more writer-directed suite, there are always things like Scrivener. I don't use it so can't really recommend it one way or the other, but everyone always seems to say it's worth it.

As for your page question, the exact layout of a print book is an entire professional skill, and not one to be attempted on your own. (Book designers don't use word processors for this. They use either Quark, InDesign, or a related piece of proprietary software that's specially built for layout.) There is a good FAQ on how to estimate page length here, but note it's from 2006 and the page/word estimation doesn't apply anymore--the word count is what the computer says it is; everything else is layout.

That thread also has all you will ever need to know about standard MS format.
 

RBEmerson

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Thanks for "all of the above".

I turned off the word count line solely to get as much screen space as possible to see what I'm writing (a curse of writing on a laptop, but carrying a 24" screen with me is so not fun). If I could tuck it on the side of screen... oh well, if I could win the PowerBall, too.

Otherwise, having landmarks or hooks or digital PasteIt tags makes it easier for me to be sure MC was wearing blue when stepping out the door, and still wearing blue, many pages later, when recalling that "stepping out the door" moment.

You're right about the copyright notice, although it's comforting to see. Being married to an intellectual property attorney has its costs... I slap (c) on almost anything I churn out, word or picture. It won't stop pirates, of course, but... blame the IP attorney.

Aside from line spacing to, make me happy, margins are "whatever works". Auto-numbering chapters is semi-needed after, more than once, ripping out semi-main characters and their plot lines and associated material. Renumbering the chapters, given how intertwined some material is/was... manual renumber? Thank you, no. But... should WIP wind up in some production process, I'm not sure how the chapter breaks will be handled. Thanks for costing me some sleep, lost while worrying about this point. Or is there a Libre trick I should know? The chapter numbering is handled as a Style applied to the first para. in the chapter.

Page numbering simply fills existing white space - makes me think I've gotten a lot done. To heck with what the content says in that regard... [/laugh]

Life has taken a tire iron to a planned trip (starts in late Aug.) across the northern US tier, CA wine country, and ending Part One in Phoenix. Looking at all I shot (including YT vid along AZ88 to Tortilla Flat <- shameless self-promotion) leaves me with a serious jones to get back to the SW. 'Sides, I've got research to do...
 

byarvin

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In my experience, it's really important to use as few features as possible when you're drafting your manuscripts. I've had the chance to talk software with at least one really well-known writer and it turns out that he preferred a text editor to a word processor. Nothing to check or correct what it was he typed and no formatting besides margins. I too am a big Libre fan, but that's because I often work on Linux machines. If my spelling and grammar were a bit stronger, I'd go for the text editor too.
 

RBEmerson

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@VeryBigBeard Your post came in while I was finishing my reply to Maryn after the house painter... yada, etc.

I agree that open source can be frustrating. Some days the "camel, horse designed by committee" notion comes with Linux, Libre, etc. OTOH, after using various Words in the past, I want no more. And I dislike's MS' intrusive and paternal concern for their my well being. No mas.

I'll investigate Scrivener - never know what could come of it. In general, I hold with "10% of the features get used 90% of the time" model. If I can find the full 10% I need/want from the remaining 90%, no need to change. Probably.

I missed the injection of printer's ink that otherwise covers part of my family tree. Book layout is, indeed, a not for small children or the faint of heart.

Thanks for the FAQ lead.

@byarvin Found your post while re-reading here. Working without spell check is, for me, slack high wire work without a net. And I do not do heights well. I am, however, willing to kill for a context-sensitive spell checker. Someone claimed they had won, but it failed - "get out of my site", Aye yelled. Grrr... Now, Libre's little wiggly blue lines or carets pointing to missing or excess spaces, etc. is nice to have.

Certainly what someone uses to create with is a very personal choice. Were I reduced to a pencil and a ream of paper, I might produce a note for the FedEx driver. Some people can't write with more than paper and pencil. It's not the mechanics, it's about having the "right tool / wrong tool". (As if this is never discussed!)
 

noranne

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I also use Linux for my work, and I loathe LibreOffice. For my writing, I use Windows (dual boot on my machine), but when I do have to do similar things on Linux, I just use Google Docs. I've found it to be a lot easier to use and with better cross-platform functionality.
 

RBEmerson

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A Linux person who likes Windows? Is this possible?

Semi-seriously, I've tried Wine to keep some Windows stuff running on first SuSE and then Ubuntu Linux. I also enjoy hitting my head with a 2x4. The experiences are similar in feeling and value. Understand, I've worked with Linux starting in the pre-Linux 1.0 era, when Linus was readily available.

Libre works well enough but I agree with the notion that its open source roots show up in some very curious design / feature choices. Which prompted this "if it's not Word and it's not Libre, what are my choices?" thread. I'm surprised at how limited or choice-poor the "word processing" field is in either the Windows or Linux worlds.
 

DMcCunney

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In my experience, it's really important to use as few features as possible when you're drafting your manuscripts. I've had the chance to talk software with at least one really well-known writer and it turns out that he preferred a text editor to a word processor. Nothing to check or correct what it was he typed and no formatting besides margins. I too am a big Libre fan, but that's because I often work on Linux machines. If my spelling and grammar were a bit stronger, I'd go for the text editor too.
I concur. Conceptually, a word processor is a text editor with features to control what the output will look like grafted on. Once upon a time, they were separate processes.

When AT&T Bell Labs developed the Unix OS (of which Linux is a derivative work alike), it included the vi full screen editor for creating/editing text. Printing was done via the lp print spooler, and you could embed macros in your text that would not show in the output, but would be converted to commands sent to the printer to turn on things like bold face or italics in the text. Unix was developed on an old DEC mini-computer, but was designed to be portable and able to be brought up on other machines. The folks who developed Unix were programmers who wanted a better environment for doing software development than the one provided by the machine they were using.

The first group of users outside of the Unix developer group were folks at Bell Labs doing patent filings (and IIRC, using a Honeywell system.) Unix with vi and the lp spooler was a much friendlier and more productive environment than what they had been using, and helped spread Unix within the rest of Bell Labs. (Folks coming from other full screen editors that encounter vi will probably blanche in horror at the idea of vi being a friendly environment, but it was a dramatic improvement over what they used before.) Those were the days when PCs did not yet exist, and you were one of a number of users sharing a machine, and logged on via a monochrome character mode terminal. Speaking personally, once I understood the design of vi and why it worked that way, I liked it, and can still use it.

I spend most of my time when composing text in a text editor. I want features to let me compose and revise text. My output will be a file, and I normally don't care what it looks like, because it's not going to be printed. On the very infrequent occasions where I am going to print it, I can import the text to a word processor and add formatting. (And if the output is going to be printed, chances are I import the text into a DTP program and add formatting there.)

An assortment of folks are old timers. SF/F writer Elizabeth Moon talks about learning to write using WordStar, and booting it up when a book is giving her trouble to reduce friction in the writing process. Game of Thrones author George R. R. Martin is also an old WordStar user, and Canadian SF/F author still uses it for drafts and im ports to Word for su7bmission drafts. He has a page on his website detailing how you can run WS under Windows, with the assistance of an open source program called vDOSPlus. (I don't like "real" WS, but do run a WS clone called VDE that way.)
______
Dennis
 

byarvin

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Dennis, very interesting!

I knew WordStar and loved Word Perfect. As I've said though, I must stick with Libre Office today because of the many different platforms I write on.