Writing western women - 1870's frontier

This is the first piece where I've attempted an interior monologue for a female character. Quick bio: age 21, fled Baltimore tenement and abusive brother, went west to "get as far away as possible". Strong sense of self. Layer of trauma from assault (e.g., rare but recurring nightmare about brother coming for her) and two later #MeToo events (both thwarted) enroute. I'm reasonably comfortable with the overall plot development. Still, I can't quite nail down the voice. I'm sure I'm missing the intangibles that make this a female voice.

To make my life harder, the WIP began with the male MC having his interior monologue in past tense (writing later, from recollection) - no worries there. He meets female MC (no interior monologue), they marry and male MC (and writer) was told, just after "I do", by female MC, she gets a voice, too. Worse, they now lapse into present tense (typically, he writes his idea of what she did or whatever - she breaks tense "I saw that", present tense dialogue follows, ends with her "past tense, buster, past tense!" - he wins some, too (I have the sound of Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn banter in Charade in my head). Hilarity ensues.

It's those intangibles that worry me.

Yes. The stories are heartbreaking. It's been a while since I read that collection of accounts, though. I should go back, with the intent to listen to voices.

In general, I keep seeing a common sound with (real, not stylized) men. The change in voice seems to be a shift in concerns between the two (wow - there's a stunner). What I can't find are the "most men would/wouldn't say" v. "most woman would / wouldn't say" grains of sand that make the beach.

Shelter in place is driving me up a wall - very little chance to eavesdrop on conversations.

Sigh... I may have to violate one of my few writing rules - nobody else sees it until I think the paint's dry(*) - and post a sample. Oh the pain...

waylander said:

How educated is this woman? Is she religiously inclined?

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Easy one first - agnostic but closer to believing (ditto male MC). Certainly not a (excuse me) "Bible thumper". Nor temperance person. Tends bar in a saloon - very much not a sporting woman, fallen dove, etc. How this happens is a major plot point. Dress on job is in line with the era. (hates!! corsets, bustles, and puffy sleeves and nowayinh*** wears "Playboy Bunny" suit (sic) )

Education... formal education is uncertain (working on likely answer based on her Baltimore background), but is fully literate (how is described in recounting leaving Baltimore). Male MC is very well educated and (very loosely described) that rubs off. Summarize her as above average intelligence and quick learner. Without this, the story falls apart. Hit <DEL> key, start another project.

She's level-headed and occasionally refers to "having the vapors" with sarcasm.

The two are complimentary and quite capable. Think of elements of the relationship between Nick and Nora in The Thin Man. Both MC's are definitely not identical to Nick and Nora but there are strong similarities (literally, the Thin Man analogy has just occurred to me - thanks for letting me think out loud).

Thoughts in reply?

Chris P said:

I second the diaries suggestion, as well as fiction from nearer the time, such as Laura Ingalls Wilder and Willa Cather. One woman novelist who was very popular at the time (she was the best selling female novelist for many years in the last half of the 1800s) but virtually unknown to us today is E.D.E.N. Southworth. I don't know if she wrote any westerns, but she was based in Washington, DC so that might give you a good insight into the perspective of an east-coast lady of the time. Your MC would have carried that perspective with her out west.

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Thanks for the suggestions. Willa Cather is mostly a name for me, I should change that. I dipped briefly into Wilder and ...um... promptly fled? I'll investigate Southworth. MC is from tenements in Baltimore.

MC said:

"Ma wasn’t too particular about why she’d drop her drawers, as long as she was fooled into thinking a new “uncle” seemed to be more than wanting only, excuse me, a poke. ... [She] worked as a seamstress and didn’t bring much home, but the uncles might leave enough money to fill in gaps."

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I also suspect you are overthinking this. One thing that strikes me now and then is how modern some writing from that time is. Sure, the social attitudes have changed, cultural expectations of gender and racial roles have changed, but the internal motivations, dreams, fears, and loves really haven't. Besides, you are writing for a 21st century (and hopefully 22nd and 23rd ) not 19th century audience. You will to some degree need to play to modern readers' tastes while preserving the historical feel. You don't need to be 1000% accurate in every view held or word uttered.

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I've almost completely avoided the ornate 19th C. speaking style. It doesn't fit female MC, and male MC intentionally doesn't want to use it. I do have occasional bits of (tortured?) syntax and word choice for effect or trying to remind the reader this is not a present day setting. Yes, it is interesting to find a "modern voice" further back than might be expected.

A flashing neon sign example of 19th C style gone astray is Riders of the Purple Sage. To date, I cannot finish the first chapter. Oh! Oh! That I shall never do so brings me such great sorrow! Puh-leez!!

Also, I found an early "Hopalong" Cassidy book almost all "yuh" and "yorn" and more. Like "Purple", this hit the discards. Female MC does drop g's occasionally, I think I've heard her use "ain't" on very rare occasion. Her one spoken vice is "cussin'". On arrival, even fellas in the saloon blanched at her facility for "cussin' like a muleskinner" (the writer very studiously sidesteps the actual words, striving for "PG-13"). She has (major plot point) since throttled back to occasional (explicit) h*** and d***. Which is d*** fine with me. BTW male MC (former Boston Brahman) was repeatedly told by Father "the man who curses has lost control". MC sticks with that to date - with one exception: "decorum be damned" as affianced and then newly weds engage in PDA. Shocking! Dreadful shocking I say!

"Over-thinking" - guilty as charged. It's a frequent problem. To date it continues unabated. I think. But maybe... Hmmm... [/<--- humor?]

I hope this conversation continues. I, at least, enjoy it and it's very helpful.

That said, for anyone following, it's my choice to asterisk the h*** out of "four letter words". I understand their use, and the use of more, is at least permitted without alteration on AW WC. NTL, out of respect for those who'd "just as soon not", using asterisks doesn't bother me in the least. HTH

Whew! MC would look at you funny for "God's will" or "meek". Her brother goes for a bodice ripper that isn't a Fabio moment. She puts him out with a vase to the head. Previous defense was a foot to the groin (ouch!). The last episode brings her to being frightened and can't stay in Baltimore - "I couldn’t stay in Baltimore. Even walking to the station, I saw [brother] coming around every corner. "West" is away from Baltimore. A second #MeToo event in Cincinnati means she can't stay - expects to see brother and attempted assailant coming around corners. She heads to St. Louis because's she's heard that's the place to find a way west. She's running from assailants. For all of that, there's no whinging or "God's punishment", just can't stay where either might find here. Seems reasonable for an assaulted woman, no?

Expectations before leaving? I don't have a clear answer in my mind (thanks for prompting that). She does have a minor job in the sweatshop's office as a copyist... ARGH!! She doesn't "get her letters" until Cincinnati. How can she be even an office go-fer as an illiterate? Thank you so very much for totally trashing part of the backstory. ARGH!!! OK, hysterics aside, I have a sense of wanting at least some small measure of upward mobility. Now to somehow clean up the mess just created. Grrr... (I'm smiling, trust me)

Why go west? Because the east has too many "bad" associations. She has no specific destination in mind. I see her as continuing to move until Something Good happens. Not a wise idea, nor traveling as a lone woman. It's a measure of her personality and sense of self that she gets as far as she does. She never, ever, and is adamant on the point, will turn a trick for money. She does find small (legitimate) jobs on occasion. The last (believe it or not) is shotgun (10 ga.!!) on a freight wagon. Knowing and pointing out she knows the freighter is featured on more than one poster is a very effective deterrent. And there's that boot to the groin in reserve. Meek? Uh-uh.

Stand out? AFAIK, up to her teens nobody comments that she's exceptional. I assume that in the Baltimore tenement setting, there are those on top, and those who go under. She's closer to top than under. Despite her Ma's obvious faults, MC cares for her mother. Call MC being thought not exceptional but probably not known as a pushover.

Y'know, I hadn't thought about it, but she and male MC are a bit off the norm but nobody makes a point of it. Except town lay pastor, who tells male MC, "some day you might just surprise yourself." Heck with male MC, I'm surprised now.

The only point where MC stands out is arriving at the end of her trip, cussin' like a muleskinner. Kinda hard to miss, eh? Oh, and that she'll work in a bar as nothing but a bartender. After give or take a week, the locals at the bar aren't phased by it. Transients occasionally need to "have the facts explained" to them.

I really appreciate all of the questions. This is helping me pull my wits together - and leaves me with a re-write. Gee, thanks. LOL

PyriteFool said:

Uh...I'm sorry did you just refer to an attempted sexual assault on your MC by her brother as a "bodice ripper that isn't a Fabio moment"? That strikes me as ridiculously insensitive especially since assault and harassment appear to be major plot points in your story. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted, but that's what I read. I also have no idea what a #MeToo moment means in the context of the 1870s (something tells me a social media campaign designed to challenge the shame and silence around rape culture isn't a thing in the story). Whatever it is, it's coming across as dismissive of something painful and serious. I'd encourage you to educate yourself more if you plan to write about these issues.

The reason you can't find a "men would say X, women would say Y" guide is because it doesn't exist. Men, women, genderqueer, nb folks, etc. will experience the world in different ways, but you learn how to portray that by standing back, listening, and immersing yourself in their voices. In this case, women's voices. There no shortcut. First and foremost though, write your character not their gender stereotype.

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I sincerely apologize for a flippant remark. You are quite right to call me on it. I hope that subsequent comments and quotes show a better? more understanding? appreciation of the matter. As I've said before, the female MC's story is very much driven by what I've read and heard from survivors of assault. References to #MeToo should be taken as shorthand for an event that might not be termed full-on assault, but still unaccepted behavior - "I'm not comfortable with it, therefore it's wrong".

It's one thing to hear anyone speak, another to get into their heads and, as in this WIP, produce a believable voice and tone. I think I have a passable sense of how many men's interior monologues might go. BTDT Trying to write the interior monologue for a person (or gender) where I lack the background experience is, at least for me, rather a risk. Get it right, fine, get it wrong and ...what?... bury the thing?

Anyone's interior monologue (I draw a distinction between interior and exterior) is shaped by where they've been, who they innately are, and on and complex on. I know queer people. I won't attempt to write an interior monologue for a queer person even though, without a doubt, much of their thinking is the same as almost anyone else's, but there's a component I just can't understand - I haven't walked in their shoes. But then, I wouldn't undertake working on someone who's Black, Asian, Native American... Again, there's a component that's simply outside of my experience - I haven't walked in their shoes. I don't know a thing about medicine, or what I know is just enough to probably kill me. Why would I take on, wrapping much together, a Black Queer Radiologist? Point made, I hope.

Staying with the "what do I know" theme, having Brown characters in this story is inescapable. Just can't be done otherwise. Other than minor adjustments in spoken syntax, I've tried to be as ...what?... fair? understanding? respectful? of those characters as I would for anyone else in this WIP. Regrettably, if a Jorge is going to stay, as needed, a Jorge, speaking like a George fails altogether. Similarly, it seems appropriate to have an Irish family run the Mercantile. Without some admittedly stereotypical speech, they become just more townspeople and not people of some note, as required by the arc of the story.

The root of this thread is to specifically avoid stereotypical writing. I want what I write to ring true. When her words are heard, if it produces "no woman would ever say that", I've missed the mark. Badly.

Thanks to the conversation here, much of what I've read has helped to point me in a, I hope, reasonable direction.

Again, my most sincere apologies for what was meant to be a flippant remark about what is not a flippant or joking matter. What I wrote should not have been written. I will stand by the fact I wrote it, or anything I write. But I will also quite willingly accept and acknowledge that what I wrote should not have been written.

Friends?

I came here to say I at least didn't dig as a deep a plot hole as I thought above. In fact, female MC (Anne Lewis, if it matters) does "get her letters" in the sweatshop office. She is taken on as a "pretty flower" for the office. She can be described as "comely"but not, as a metaphor, "stunning" (I ain't that foolish or drowning in testosterone). It's part of what gets her away from the sewing machines and (risk of another Flatiron build fire). As I said earlier, she does want to move up from where she was before the story begins. Accepting being in the office is part of that movement. The man who attempts to "pick that flower" is confronted by an angry young woman with a pair of scissors in her hand. I hope that says something about who this person is prior to the actual start of the story (this account is treated as part of a forward, written some time after the conclusion of the main story. The account of the flight west begins with

FemaleMC said:

Of course [/male MC] knows where I came from and why I left home, such as it was. You read what I said to him right after we ...what?… met? I don’t like talking about the subject, but I want you to know, in more detail.

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Of course that Foreword is part of the story, mostly exposition, but, as can be seen, some character development, too.

HTH

Question: What are the rules about quoting from WIP's? Nobody's thrown up a flag on what I've posted, but I'd rather get it right before I put my foot in it.