The petri dish that is Liberty University

Roxxsmom

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Jerry Falwell Jr. decided to partially re-open Liberty University in defiance of recommendations and all common sense.

Now students and faculty have contracted the virus.

https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor

LYNCHBURG, Va. — As Liberty University’s spring break was drawing to a close this month, Jerry Falwell Jr., its president, spoke with the physician who runs Liberty’s student health service about the rampaging coronavirus.

“We’ve lost the ability to corral this thing,” Dr. Thomas W. Eppes Jr. said he told Mr. Falwell. But he did not urge him to close the school. “I just am not going to be so presumptuous as to say, ‘This is what you should do and this is what you shouldn’t do,’” Dr. Eppes said in an interview.

So Mr. Falwell — a staunch ally of President Trump and an influential voice in the evangelical world — reopened the university last week, igniting a firestorm. As of Friday, Dr. Eppes said, nearly a dozen Liberty students were sick with symptoms that suggested Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus. Three were referred to local hospital centers for testing. An additional eight were told to self-isolate.

As of 8 p.m. on March 29, of those three students tested, one was positive, one was negative and one student’s results are still pending, according to Dr. Eppes, who added that the student who tested positive for Covid-19 lives off campus.

Fallwell's narrative has been inconsistent throughout, and he's personally attacked students, faculty and parents who have disagreed with his decision.

The mayor and city manager here, Bonnie Svrcek, felt relieved two weeks ago, when Mr. Falwell assured them that he fully intended to comply with Virginia’s public health directives and close the school to virtually all students, most of whom were scattering for spring break. Then he changed his mind.

“We think it’s irresponsible for so many universities to just say ‘closed, you can’t come back,’ push the problem off on other communities and sit there in their ivory towers,” Mr. Falwell said on Wednesday on a radio show hosted by Todd Starnes, a far-right conspiracy theorist.

“We’re conservative, we’re Christian, and therefore we’re being attacked,” he said.

Michael Gillette, a former mayor of Lynchburg and a bioethicist now working with its hospitals on rationing scarce ventilators, disagrees.

“To argue that criticism of Liberty is based on political bias is unfounded and unreasonable,” he said. “Liberty just did not take this threat as seriously as others have.”

Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia, Lynchburg city officials and a growing number of Liberty students, parents and employees have urged Mr. Falwell to reverse course, but such pleas have only prompted a stream of often conflicting statements.

“Our messages did change throughout the week as the governor’s orders changed,” Mr. Falwell said. “We had to adapt.”

Mr. Falwell initially said only international students or those with nowhere else to go would remain. Then he welcomed back a much larger group of about 1,900 students to campus housing last week, in addition to faculty members and staff. Others returned to off-campus rentals in Lynchburg.

Students who remained at home had to return last week to clean out their rooms, a requirement that was later relaxed. Faculty members were at first ordered back to campus, even though they would be teaching online. Then some were allowed to work from home.

Mr. Falwell also waffled on whether the school would issue refunds to students who did not return for the semester, before announcing on Friday that most would receive a $1,000 credit for next year’s bills.

Mr. Falwell and his administration have worked to tamp down dissent. After a Liberty undergraduate, Calum Best, wrote on his personal Facebook page that students should receive refunds, he said Liberty’s spokesman, Scott Lamb, called his cellphone to berate him. Asked about the call, Mr. Lamb said he was simply objecting to an error in the post, and Mr. Best was “spinning.”

After Marybeth Davis Baggett, a professor, wrote an open letter asking the university’s board of trustees to close the campus, Mr. Falwell mocked her on Twitter as “the ‘Baggett’ lady.”

Jeff Brittain, a Liberty parent, wrote on Twitter: “I’m as right wing as they get, bud. But as a parent of three of your students, I think this is crazy, irresponsible and seems like a money grab.” Mr. Falwell replied, calling him a “dummy.”

I understand that the Right has become very anti science and places profits above people (a very Christian value, to be certain :sarcasm ), but do they really think they are immune to this virus? Do they honestly think they are immune from potential lawsuits?
 

Marissa D

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It sounds like Falwell is trying to use the Trump communications playbook...only it's not gonna work on people who are afraid their kids are going to catch the virus. I'm astonished that he hasn't considered the lawsuit potential here.
 

frimble3

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I don't know that his God will protect him from an angry mob of parents. Even if their children are embarrassed.
 

Maryn

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If I shook my head is disappointment and disbelief any harder, it might fall off. What the hell is the man thinking?

Maryn, pretty sure he's not
 

Lyv

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The evangelical right:

Florida Pastor Arrested After Defying Virus Orders


Baltimore pastor vows to continue services despite coronavirus-related restrictions and visit from police

Pa. pastor blasts coronavirus orders, plans outdoor service ‘like Woodstock’

Central pastor holds service hours after arrest on violating governor's stay-at-home order

Megachurch pastors defy coronavirus pandemic, insisting on right to worship

Because you can't worship unless there's a huge crowd and plates being passed among them, am I right?

I could post dozens more articles. Some, maybe most, are megachurch pastors, and I suspect greed rather than faith is motivating them, but those who show up are almost certainly true believers.

I ran into one earlier, in a Facebook group for very long-term childhood cancer survivors. Because we were treated in the 60s-80s, we have "late effects," which are medical problems that can show up years, even decades, after treatment. Most of us have lung, heart, muscle, neurological, and immune system issues. Lots of secondary cancers. Today, a member asked what we're all thinking about guidelines for rationing medical care, equipment, and supplies, knowing many of us wouldn't make the cut. A woman said that it would all be ok. There would be no shortages, no problems, because God was going to spare us. I pointed out that the things she said her god would protect us from were already happening, and by the way, does God just hate Italy? She just kept saying the same thing over and over. We would all be ok because God would protect us, everyone, not just in the group. This is a woman who is not taking any precautions, and like me, she likely wouldn't survive the virus, possibly even if she was not denied a ventilator. She would not hear reason. I just hope she doesn't get others sick or worse.

I know these are churches and not a university, but imo it's the same con job with victims who share a particular mindset and beliefs.
 
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cbenoi1

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We have our own petri dish here.

Hasidic Jewish community north of Montreal quarantined
https://canoe.com/news/local-news/b...nity/wcm/2b0c2f23-1800-4c4d-bc17-430004e32e8a

The Tosh Jewish community was placed under a 14-day quarantine on Sunday after 19 members tested positive for COVID-19. Over the March break; several members of the community went to Brooklyn and Monroe, N.Y., while students studying in New York came home to Montreal.

DOH!

What the story doesn't say is a 67 years-old elder died within 3 days of showing symptoms of COVID, hence the deer-in-headlight "oh shit" realization below.

When travelers began having symptoms of the coronavirus after returning home, public health officials tested about 100 people in the community. It is likely that others may have also been infected because the community has many large families, he said. In order to enforce the quarantine, the community reached out to local police to make sure no one comes in or out, unless they’re providing an essential service.

They smartened up quickly. Just hope it doesn't come too late...

-cb
 
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frimble3

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Lyv, wait for it: one of these evangelical pastors will say that God is punishing the Italians for being Catholics.
Meanwhile, the Jehovah's Witnesses, valiant door-knockers and street-corner speakers that they are, have cancelled door-to-door witnessing, stopped sidewalk witnessing, and stopped having their own meetings, instead changing to on-line meetings wherever possible.
Trust God, he gave you common sense - use it!
 

Lyv

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Ugh, frimble, you're right. I despair. Like, all the time.
 

ElaineA

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Florida's "governor" Ron DeSantis, isn't ABOUT to let Liberty U or the Montreal Hasidic community one up him!
After weeks of criticism from lawmakers and the public, DeSantis announced a new sweeping executive order calling for a statewide 30-day stay-at-home order to go into effect this Friday; the order limits movement only to essential businesses and essential activities.

The order, which you can read for yourself right here, also lists essential activities that are permitted during the 30-day period, and includes things like exercising, taking care of pets, assisting a loved one, and "religious services conducted in churches, synagogues and houses of worship." (bolding mine)
 

Roxxsmom

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The evangelical right:

Florida Pastor Arrested After Defying Virus Orders


Baltimore pastor vows to continue services despite coronavirus-related restrictions and visit from police

Pa. pastor blasts coronavirus orders, plans outdoor service ‘like Woodstock’

Central pastor holds service hours after arrest on violating governor's stay-at-home order

Megachurch pastors defy coronavirus pandemic, insisting on right to worship

Because you can't worship unless there's a huge crowd and plates being passed among them, am I right?

I could post dozens more articles. Some, maybe most, are megachurch pastors, and I suspect greed rather than faith is motivating them, but those who show up are almost certainly true believers.

I ran into one earlier, in a Facebook group for very long-term childhood cancer survivors. Because we were treated in the 60s-80s, we have "late effects," which are medical problems that can show up years, even decades, after treatment. Most of us have lung, heart, muscle, neurological, and immune system issues. Lots of secondary cancers. Today, a member asked what we're all thinking about guidelines for rationing medical care, equipment, and supplies, knowing many of us wouldn't make the cut. A woman said that it would all be ok. There would be no shortages, no problems, because God was going to spare us. I pointed out that the things she said her god would protect us from were already happening, and by the way, does God just hate Italy? She just kept saying the same thing over and over. We would all be ok because God would protect us, everyone, not just in the group. This is a woman who is not taking any precautions, and like me, she likely wouldn't survive the virus, possibly even if she was not denied a ventilator. She would not hear reason. I just hope she doesn't get others sick or worse.

I know these are churches and not a university, but imo it's the same con job with victims who share a particular mindset and beliefs.

The churches and university are very connected, I think.

With Jerry Falwell Junior, I suspect greed is a huge motivator, but politics probably comes into it too. I suspect it does for some of those pastors too. Like climate change, Covid-19 is a scientific issue that should supersede one's politics, because it is an existential threat to every one of us, regardless of political persuasion. But in order to get working class people to vote for them, the Right needed to sow widespread mistrust of science, because science doesn't support their mantra that pure, unfettered capitalism will solve everything. They basically got a wide swathe of the American public--working class white people--to vote against their own economic self interest by convincing them that science was an urban, coastal, liberal conspiracy to destroy their way of life and that an expert opinion about something is no better than an uneducated person's hunch.

Sp now the Evangelical Right has thrown themselves in hook, line and sinker with a narcissistic, pussy-grabbing charlatan of a POTUS who doesn't have a religious bone in his body, unless worship of oneself possibly counts. For the most powerful and influential in the movement, I suspect there's a cynical calculus there, and that desire to retain society's traditional power structure by controlling others and allowing the rich and powerful to become even more rich and powerful. But there are true believers in the bunch, who can't see the hypocrisy in enthusiastically and blindly following a man who is about as far from "Christlike" as it is possible for someone to be.

And ironically, if Falwell had taken the warnings about Covid-19 seriously from the beginning and closed his campus and converted instruction to online, as public and private colleges are doing all over the country, he would have caught flack from at least some of those students, faculty and parents for not standing in solidarity with their idiot in chief, who insisted early on that it was a hoax, then stated that this pandemic was overblown, no worse than the flu, and soon to be under control.

Lyv, wait for it: one of these evangelical pastors will say that God is punishing the Italians for being Catholics.
Meanwhile, the Jehovah's Witnesses, valiant door-knockers and street-corner speakers that they are, have cancelled door-to-door witnessing, stopped sidewalk witnessing, and stopped having their own meetings, instead changing to on-line meetings wherever possible.
Trust God, he gave you common sense - use it!

Jehovah's witnesses don't (from conversations I've had with them anyway) believe humans can do anything to solve the problems facing the world. But they have more common sense than these guys do! Maybe it's because they're largely apolitical, so they haven't been dazzled by the thing that's in the White House right now.
 
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cbenoi1

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Houston, we have another petri dish in Montreal...

Il ouvre son hôtel pour un mariage: «Vraiment une grosse erreur»
https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/20...our-un-mariage-vraiment-une-grosse-erreur.php

With Montreal island under lockdown (we're weeks if not days away from having police checkpoints on all bridges), Crowne Plaza Hotel owner Samuel Rosenberg decided to defy government orders and opened up his hotel to 180 guests (plus personnel) for his daughter's wedding, including to the groom's family from New-York. Visitors to Canada must - by government order - quarantine themselves for a minimum of 14 days. What better place to do this than at an airport hotel and why not, attend a wedding at the same time!

Fucking. Geniuses.

The maximum fine for defying government orders during this crisis in Quebec is C$500,000 for corporations. C$750 per person. No joke. This may be one of the costlier wedding the province has ever seen in a long while - this time both in fine money and lives.

Hubris is going to kill the human race. Not a stupid virus.

-cb
 
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Introversion

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Houston, we have another petri dish in Montreal...

Il ouvre son hôtel pour un mariage: «Vraiment une grosse erreur»
https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/20...our-un-mariage-vraiment-une-grosse-erreur.php

With Montreal island under lockdown (we're weeks if not days away from having police checkpoints on all bridges), Crowne Plaza Hotel owner Samuel Rosenberg decided to defy government orders and opened up his hotel to 180 guests (plus personnel) for his daughter's wedding, including to the groom's family from New-York. Visitors to Canada must - by government order - quarantine themselves for a minimum of 14 days. What better place to do this than at an airport hotel and why not, attend a wedding at the same time!

:Jaw: W.T.A.F.???
 

Introversion

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Samaritan's Purse, the charity that set up the field hospital in Central Park, is also under Falwell. How will they treat the diversity that is NYC? Christians before Jews? Muslims? Heteros above gays? Cis above trans? Men above women? Evangelicals over Catholics?

Am I paranoid for thinking about this?

Not a bit. It’s been reported (sorry, don’t have a link handy) that his “charity” has been asking volunteers to sign a document declaring the immorality of homosexuality. It’s not much of a stretch to suppose that patients known to be gay would be treated worse, or even turned away. After all, these are people who, by the belief system of these evangelicals, are the cause of this virus — God’s wrath at their lifestyle — so why treat them when it’s clear God hates them?
 

Roxxsmom

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What's beyond freaky to me is the governors who have decided that in-person religious services constitute essential services. What, do they really think God will protect worshipers from the virus? When so many other Constitutional rights have been suspended or modified during this epidemic: the right to hold and attend political rallies, the right to assembly etc., why is this one sacrosanct? Can't the freedom to be worship be taken online, as so many others have already done. Many congregations and denominations have already done so, even before their states mandated it.

I GET that it's frustrating and lonely to be separated from your support network and community. I'm not religious, personally, but I understand how important religious community is to some people. We've all got activities, people, and communities we miss terribly right now, events and activities we cherish that have been cancelled. It sucks. But these are things we can give up for a while, and in fact we (and everyone else) are safer if we do so. We've already seen how just one or two group events (in this case funerals) can spike the number of cases in a community! The virus doesn't care why you congregated.

Are these religious communities still going to be grateful to these politicians when they have outbreaks (and needless deaths) within their community, as is happening in Georgia after those funerals?

And don't get me started about the selfish lawnessness of Hobby Lobby. If there were any justice in the world, they would lose that precious religious exemption that allows them to deny contraceptive coverage to their employees. They've proven that they put profits before lives, which is about as contrary to Christ's teachings as it is possible to be!
 

frimble3

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I can understand a store doing 'order on-line, and pick-up your order out front', but it's ridiculous that Jo-Anne's and Hobby Lobby are open and letting people wander around freely. 'Hobby' by definition, is not an 'essential business'.
Of course, I'm biased, because I do all my shopping on-line, but, gotta say, most of the places I deal with have closed their physical stores for the duration.

Besides, No True Hobbyist is without stuff to work with in a supply emergency.;):Soapbox:
It may not be stuff you want to do, but try to remember why you originally wanted it.
I, for example, have a box of assorted yarns. I do not knit.
 

frimble3

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I've seen people make fancy dresses out of TP. I don't know how many occasions there are, currently, for fancy ballgowns, but it's a thought. You know, for on-line grad ceremonies, etc. in the future.
 

ElaineA

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Pretty sure DeSantis knows if he loses the Evangelicals, he won't even be able to cheat his way to a win. Thus, "let them congregate. It's only a 1-2.5% death rate. That's within the margin of error."

Ghoul.
 

cbenoi1

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Montreal petri dish # 2 update.

Un magnat de l'immobilier aux soins intensifs
https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2020/04/03/lhomme-daffaires-michael-rosenberg-aux-soins-intensifs

Le magnat de l’immobilier se trouve actuellement aux soins intensifs de l’Hôpital général Juif de Montréal, sous sédation et intubation. Il a participé à un mariage le 16 mars dernier, à l’hôtel Crowne Plaza, de Montréal. Les règles de distanciation sociale n’ont alors pas été respectées.

Micheal Rosenberg - brother of the Crowne Plaza Hotel owner Samuel Rosenberg who hosted a wedding for 180 people while defying quarantine rules - is now in ICU.

-cb
 

Calla Lily

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Frimble, message me and we'll Facetime or Skype and I'll show you how to knit/crochet a few basic things.

We have a church across the street. The pastor was a cool guy. The church actually followed the precepts from Acts. I don't go to church (surprise?), but I know the history of Christianity (not surprised).

Then he joined Samaritan's Purse. In just over a year, I blocked him on social media. He ate Falwell's poison like it was candy. What a waste.