There is one major problem I have. I can't get past most organization and planning of the novel. I have great ideas, I usually start a mind map of the novel idea and go from there. But as far as outlining, I can't find a great way to do it. I try to use a mind map but it never satisfies me; I have tried using a word document but still no satisfaction. I don't know how to find something other than that. I don't usually hand write anything because my writing is terrible. Any ideas?
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I get stuck because I am never satified with how I organize and outline
- Thread starter hayoken2000
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Mind maps leave me cold. I write for my own pleasure alone, so take the following with a pinch of salt, but...
I would suggest going for simplicity. John Braine, author of Room at the Top, recommended a blank sheet of paper, writing down numbers from 1 - 30, and filling in those points with very brief descriptions of the main incidents of your story. I don't think you need to be too strict on the numbers, as long as they maintain a nodding acquaintance with that figure. I wouldn't get hung up on bad hand writing either. There is always block printing, or a word document.
You can find tons of information and advice on both the internet and in book form on how to write, but only you can decide what works best for you.
I use Scrivener, which you might consider checking out. It has helped me organise my thoughts and my work. While it is not free, I consider it modestly priced. It also comes with a free 30 day free trial version to see if will suit the way you work. Again for the sake of simplicity, if you do try it out, I think the blank template is the best option, with its basic layout of draft, research and trash folders. Google Literature and Latte if you are interested.
I would suggest going for simplicity. John Braine, author of Room at the Top, recommended a blank sheet of paper, writing down numbers from 1 - 30, and filling in those points with very brief descriptions of the main incidents of your story. I don't think you need to be too strict on the numbers, as long as they maintain a nodding acquaintance with that figure. I wouldn't get hung up on bad hand writing either. There is always block printing, or a word document.
You can find tons of information and advice on both the internet and in book form on how to write, but only you can decide what works best for you.
I use Scrivener, which you might consider checking out. It has helped me organise my thoughts and my work. While it is not free, I consider it modestly priced. It also comes with a free 30 day free trial version to see if will suit the way you work. Again for the sake of simplicity, if you do try it out, I think the blank template is the best option, with its basic layout of draft, research and trash folders. Google Literature and Latte if you are interested.
Along the same lines as TalkTidy's suggestions, you might consider trying the snowflake method. It's iterative, beginning with a single sentence (A young farm boy leaves his home to battle the evil empire) and working upward into a spreadsheet of described scenes (these equate to the thirty story points.). I've found it a useful approach.
https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/
https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/
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Just a thought, but have you tried writing the work rather than planning it?
Everyone has their own, unique, way of working, but broadly writers seem to fall into two camps - outliners and discovery writers or "pantsers" (so called because they fly by the seat of their pants...)
Personally I am kind of a hybrid - I have a 30,000 feet view of where things are going, but I can't plan in detail (this has been true of every single aspect of my life, not just writing...), but one of the things I LOVE when I am writing is finding out what my characters do! If I had planned what they do, it wouldn't be the same. For me. Everyone is different, there is no right or wrong.
I use mind-maps, but more to remind me of what I have written than to plan what I am going to write... (I have a terrible memory)
Everyone has their own, unique, way of working, but broadly writers seem to fall into two camps - outliners and discovery writers or "pantsers" (so called because they fly by the seat of their pants...)
Personally I am kind of a hybrid - I have a 30,000 feet view of where things are going, but I can't plan in detail (this has been true of every single aspect of my life, not just writing...), but one of the things I LOVE when I am writing is finding out what my characters do! If I had planned what they do, it wouldn't be the same. For me. Everyone is different, there is no right or wrong.
I use mind-maps, but more to remind me of what I have written than to plan what I am going to write... (I have a terrible memory)
I am an abject failure at outlining, but my preference is for index cards. I write a simple one-sentence description of the scene I have in mind on each card — it lets me throw out tons and tons of ideas without worrying about what order they go in, which, frankly, is the hard part for me. If you really can’t stand even that much handwriting, a program that simulates index card style outlining like Scrivener’s Corkboard mode or Supernotecard might work.
If you’re much better about when things happen in what order than I am, or time is important to your novel, Aeon Timeline might be worth a go. (It’s good software, I build a lot of future history timelines in it, I just can’t outline with it.)
Or you may not need or want an outline at all — I find that the less outline I have, the better I go these days.
It’s hard to answer without knowing a bit more about what throws the brakes on for you in the outlining process. Where do you get frustrated, and why?
If you’re much better about when things happen in what order than I am, or time is important to your novel, Aeon Timeline might be worth a go. (It’s good software, I build a lot of future history timelines in it, I just can’t outline with it.)
Or you may not need or want an outline at all — I find that the less outline I have, the better I go these days.
It’s hard to answer without knowing a bit more about what throws the brakes on for you in the outlining process. Where do you get frustrated, and why?
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There are only about a bazillion ways to organize and plan. So it's natural to try a whole lot that don't really fit you until you hit on one that does.
I do best with two methods. One is to write a detailed synopsis, maybe five to fifteen single spaced pages so I get a good bit of detail in there about what happens and why and how people react and what it leads to, all that.
The other, which works better for me, is based on a screenwriting template (I'm not a screenwriter) that I copy onto a spreadsheet. At one time M. Hauge gave away a detailed version on his website, although now he sells it. Down the left column I put plot points loosely based on his:
STAGE I: SETUP (0-10%) introduces the main character as a sympathetic one and shows his everyday life.
TURNING POINT 1: THE OPPORTUNITY (at 10%) creates a new desire for the character
STAGE II: THE NEW SITUATION (10-25%) shows the character adapting to the changes his actions are causing as he goes after his goal, and stumbling blocks appear.
TURNING POINT 2: THE CHANGE OF PLANS (25%) is when something happens which may change and must sharply define the character's goal, revealing the character's motivation--why does this [new] goal matter so much?
STAGE III: PROGRESS (25-50%) is the character's pursuit of his goal, his activity leading to small results putting it ever-nearer.
TURNING POINT 3: THE POINT OF NO RETURN (50%) is where the character does something which means there's no backing down and returning to the old life.
STAGE IV: COMPLICATIONS AND HIGHER STAKES (50-75%) is the goal seeming ever more distant, and the character has much more to lose if he fails than it originally seemed.
TURNING POINT 4: THE MAJOR SETBACK (75%) crushes the character, who has only enough resources left to make one last effort to achieve that goal.
STAGE V: THE FINAL PUSH (75-90/99%) is the character's all-in attempt to attain the goal, risking everything.
TURNING POINT 5: THE CLIMAX (90 – 99%) is where the goal is achieved--or not.
STAGE VI: THE AFTERMATH quickly wraps up any loose ends and shows or suggests the character's changed life.
There's columns for everything I need to keep track of. Date and time, season. Setting, including weather. Each character. The location of important items or information. Details on who knows what and when they find out. I add items in between the basic plot points with further details, scene by scene.
I end up with a spreadsheet about 50 by 50 cells. All are filled in. Some say things like "still dead," while others have vital information, "learns where the gold is hidden."
So try anything you've seen here, knowing that something is absolutely going to click and you'll be able to do much better with it.
Maryn, who needs to go start dinner but is dragging her heels
I do best with two methods. One is to write a detailed synopsis, maybe five to fifteen single spaced pages so I get a good bit of detail in there about what happens and why and how people react and what it leads to, all that.
The other, which works better for me, is based on a screenwriting template (I'm not a screenwriter) that I copy onto a spreadsheet. At one time M. Hauge gave away a detailed version on his website, although now he sells it. Down the left column I put plot points loosely based on his:
STAGE I: SETUP (0-10%) introduces the main character as a sympathetic one and shows his everyday life.
TURNING POINT 1: THE OPPORTUNITY (at 10%) creates a new desire for the character
STAGE II: THE NEW SITUATION (10-25%) shows the character adapting to the changes his actions are causing as he goes after his goal, and stumbling blocks appear.
TURNING POINT 2: THE CHANGE OF PLANS (25%) is when something happens which may change and must sharply define the character's goal, revealing the character's motivation--why does this [new] goal matter so much?
STAGE III: PROGRESS (25-50%) is the character's pursuit of his goal, his activity leading to small results putting it ever-nearer.
TURNING POINT 3: THE POINT OF NO RETURN (50%) is where the character does something which means there's no backing down and returning to the old life.
STAGE IV: COMPLICATIONS AND HIGHER STAKES (50-75%) is the goal seeming ever more distant, and the character has much more to lose if he fails than it originally seemed.
TURNING POINT 4: THE MAJOR SETBACK (75%) crushes the character, who has only enough resources left to make one last effort to achieve that goal.
STAGE V: THE FINAL PUSH (75-90/99%) is the character's all-in attempt to attain the goal, risking everything.
TURNING POINT 5: THE CLIMAX (90 – 99%) is where the goal is achieved--or not.
STAGE VI: THE AFTERMATH quickly wraps up any loose ends and shows or suggests the character's changed life.
There's columns for everything I need to keep track of. Date and time, season. Setting, including weather. Each character. The location of important items or information. Details on who knows what and when they find out. I add items in between the basic plot points with further details, scene by scene.
I end up with a spreadsheet about 50 by 50 cells. All are filled in. Some say things like "still dead," while others have vital information, "learns where the gold is hidden."
So try anything you've seen here, knowing that something is absolutely going to click and you'll be able to do much better with it.
Maryn, who needs to go start dinner but is dragging her heels
IMO there are as many outlining methods as there are authors. Your task is finding the way that works for you - As Bradbury said, you have to jump from the cliff and build your wings on the way down.
Go ahead and learn what others do. Whether you follow their advice to the letter, take pieces here and there, or toss it all aside and just jump in - that's all on you. The main thing is that once you complete a project, you should look back at the process you went through and toss out what didn't work and enhance what did.
What I do:
I start with an idea - and let it stew in my mind for quite a while. From that, I usually get where the story starts and ends, and an idea of the major characters in it. I live with it long enough that I get an idea of the arcs and motivations of the major characters.
Then I open a doc on my computer, and write down what I have in terms of plot. Start, and end. Then ask, ok, what's between those two? It should start falling into place like falling dominoes. At first these just show up as chapter names. Then I go back into each chapter, find the start and the end, then walk through the steps between those two. I do this (using a bulleted list in word) until I have about 25-30 chapters with 8 to 10 points within each.
Concurrently I have another doc for characters - culture - and general notes.
All this I refine and refine and refine until I can't stand not writing the story out.
Again though, this process works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Go ahead and learn what others do. Whether you follow their advice to the letter, take pieces here and there, or toss it all aside and just jump in - that's all on you. The main thing is that once you complete a project, you should look back at the process you went through and toss out what didn't work and enhance what did.
What I do:
I start with an idea - and let it stew in my mind for quite a while. From that, I usually get where the story starts and ends, and an idea of the major characters in it. I live with it long enough that I get an idea of the arcs and motivations of the major characters.
Then I open a doc on my computer, and write down what I have in terms of plot. Start, and end. Then ask, ok, what's between those two? It should start falling into place like falling dominoes. At first these just show up as chapter names. Then I go back into each chapter, find the start and the end, then walk through the steps between those two. I do this (using a bulleted list in word) until I have about 25-30 chapters with 8 to 10 points within each.
Concurrently I have another doc for characters - culture - and general notes.
All this I refine and refine and refine until I can't stand not writing the story out.
Again though, this process works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks! I attempted this in the mind map. I am a visual person. So seeing what I type along with the big picture still in view is something that comforts me. I may try this and see where it leads me. Thank you for your suggestion.
Maryn, thanks for the info, I think I will try to combine this info with indianroads, this may help me bring it all together. Thank you again.
YMMV but what worked for me was writing chapters in Scrivener where you can move chapters around to reorganize them after you've written them.
I am a pantser and only switched to a bit of planning at the end to make it all come together.
I am a pantser and only switched to a bit of planning at the end to make it all come together.
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Or moving documents, containing scenes, around inside that chapter or moved to another.
As others have said, there are so many different methods and ways to organize, you just have to find what works for you. I tend to get an idea and just let it live in my head for a bit, weeks or months sometimes. In this time I research and read, hopefully adding to my idea and thinking of interesting things to add in. Sometimes I look at cliches in that genre so I can steer clear or do something new with them.
Then I write it all down and look at what I'm missing. This character has a goal but no clear reason to want this goal, so I need to think about that. I have this plot-point but no idea how to get to that point, so I need to work on that.
Then I write it all down and look at what I'm missing. This character has a goal but no clear reason to want this goal, so I need to think about that. I have this plot-point but no idea how to get to that point, so I need to work on that.
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I just started planning for my current WIP. I tried doing Acts and scenes and whatnot. But all that technical stuff just drained me. Finally I just wrote a list of things I wanted to happen. I started at the beginning and then just kept going. Ideas were hitting me as I went and soon I had a little outline. I then when in and fleshed it out.
Honestly, the best thing is to skip any kind of format or list or color-codes and just put the outline down. Then mess with it and color-code it and put footnotes and whatever.
Honestly, the best thing is to skip any kind of format or list or color-codes and just put the outline down. Then mess with it and color-code it and put footnotes and whatever.
Your process of writing will and should evolve.
If this is your first large work, just take your best shot at it - if you're anything like my it'll probably be over done, but that's fine. Use it to write your book, but make note of what worked and what didn't as you go. Blast through that first novel, then do a postmortem on your process, trim or add to it as necessary, and use that knowledge to make your next project go easier.
I suggest you consider what worked and what didn't at the conclusion of every book you write, and make changes accordingly.
Remember, the Mona Lisa wasn't Leonardo da Vinci's first painting.
If this is your first large work, just take your best shot at it - if you're anything like my it'll probably be over done, but that's fine. Use it to write your book, but make note of what worked and what didn't as you go. Blast through that first novel, then do a postmortem on your process, trim or add to it as necessary, and use that knowledge to make your next project go easier.
I suggest you consider what worked and what didn't at the conclusion of every book you write, and make changes accordingly.
Remember, the Mona Lisa wasn't Leonardo da Vinci's first painting.