Starting from the beginning

satyesu

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
745
Reaction score
15
I apologize if this is oft-tread ground here; I've been on this forum for about 13 years, IIRC, and I've usually come here, or gone to other writing help/tip offerings, in the middle of a project and tried to find what I needed to get me over a hump. Maybe that's fine, but I haven't finished any work of fiction in many years. Now I want to settle my cheeks in a desk chair and learn how to write a novel. Be shown the process. Build it up from nothing but an idea and a few scraps. Is there a site, class, video series, or something any of you experienced novelists would recommend?
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
I apologize if this is oft-tread ground here; I've been on this forum for about 13 years, IIRC, and I've usually come here, or gone to other writing help/tip offerings, in the middle of a project and tried to find what I needed to get me over a hump. Maybe that's fine, but I haven't finished any work of fiction in many years. Now I want to settle my cheeks in a desk chair and learn how to write a novel. Be shown the process. Build it up from nothing but an idea and a few scraps. Is there a site, class, video series, or something any of you experienced novelists would recommend?

I don't think there's a class that can teach you to keep with something. There are a whole bunch of approaches, as you know, from snowflake plotting to scene mapping to pantsing to anything else, but none will work unless you actually sit and write. There's nano, which can motivate some people to getting at least 50,000 words on a document but...

Butt in chair.
 

Cindyt

Gettin wiggy wit it
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
4,826
Reaction score
1,954
Location
The Sticks
Website
growingupwolf.blogspot.com
Plan it, or not, you still have to sit there and write it, and only you can figure out where it's going from Chapter One to The End. Before I wrote my first book--a historical--I had an inkling idea, a character, his location, and what I wanted him to be doing in the first scene. I just sat down and let the words take me away. It wasn't always easy, and I trashed the first 30,000 words, but I finished it, and started the second draft and on it went. Now I'm in the process of proofing it for pub.
 
Last edited:

Woollybear

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
9,707
Location
USA
Is there a site, class, video series, or something any of you experienced novelists would recommend?

I'm not terribly experienced but:

https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/

That's what I use, and I love it. It has definitely helped me think through the entirety of the novel in a coherent way.

(ETA: But also it's not uncommon to lose that spark for your story somewhere in the middle or toward the end--it's a different energy, pulling threads together instead of spinning them out. Lots of us at club have trouble finishing, me included. The advice to write an ending even if it's a bad one, is good advice.)
 
Last edited:

Cephus

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
259
Reaction score
66
No one can make you be responsible but you. You have to want to do it and not allow yourself to fail. Writing is all about repetition. You get better at it by doing it for an extended amount of time. You learn how to write by reading. It is not a fast process. It will take years. Those not willing to put in the time and effort fail.

Make your decision what you really want to do.
 

katfeete

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
Messages
165
Reaction score
146
Location
In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia
Website
www.sunsetgrillcomic.com
I can’t recommend any sites or classes, because none of them have ever worked for me. I’m an avid listener of Writing Excuses: I like Patricia Wrede’s writing blog, and Marie Brennan’s New Worlds posts and ebooks. But these aren’t step-by-step guides so much as advice that sometimes sets off lightbulb moments. As far as how to write novels — how I write novels — I had to work that out for myself.

If you want to short-circuit the process, here’s three questions that might have saved me years of flailing:

1) What do you like to write? Go back to the essential building blocks of story — world, plot, character. Which one appeals to you most, which one do you find yourself thinking about the most, which one do your readers comment on favorably?

2) How do stories come to you? When you’re feeling the story in your head, where are the scenes and scenarios that feel clearest, most real, most vivid? Do you have the perfect beginning? A brilliant end? Pivotal scenes in the middle?

3) What makes you stop? I have my share of unfinished novels — we all do. What makes you walk away? Is it that you can’t see the next step, the next scene? That the story doesn’t feel “right” any more? Do you start polishing already-written scenes and become so obsessed with getting them “right” that you stop writing new ones? Do you become so overwhelmed with the feeling that everything you’ve written is terrible that you give up? Do you get to a certain point — 30k, 60k — and decide the story isn’t working? Do you get to a certain point and get distracted by a New Shiny?

Knowing these things may help you sort out how to tackle your project. If you’re a plotter, you probably want some form of outline, but if you’re a worldbuilder, you may be better off with a solid world bible and only a few sketchy bullet points of plot; if you’re a character writer, you may be best off doing free writing or character interviews or a Draft Zero — whatever gets those voices solid. Your strongest writing skill is your anchor, it’s your bones. It’s what you use to fix the elements you’re weaker in. Lean on it. Similarly, it’s usually best to write from the point in your story you feel most certain about. If that means you start at the end and work backwards, or start somewhere in the middle and work your way out, or jump around writing out-of-order scenes like a caffeinated frog, that’s what it is. The way that works is the right way.

Knowing what stops you finishing is harder (for me at least) to prescribe for. I ended up writing the first draft of my current WIP in longhand to stop myself going back and obsessively fiddling with trivia — not the right word? TOO BAD, fix it on type-in. Others go over the day before’s writing, or the week before’s, to edit because it keeps the story strong in their minds. For some having an outline to refer back to keeps them going, for others (me) an outline is a will o’wisp that will lead them so far from their real story they can’t get back. If you only ever get X far on a WIP, that may be where you just need to push through and grind, because as Patty noted, different stages of a story take different energy. Getting through it once, however terribly, is sometimes the only way to convince yourself you can do it again.

I also recommend setting goals. It doesn’t matter what those are. Daily goals are popular, but if your goal is to write for eight hours straight every other Saturday, that’s fine too; you can set a goal of 500 words a day, or 10,000 a month, you can say “I will write for X hours”, “I will write X pages” — but you have to stick with it. Be as specific as possible. If you can say “I will write every morning from 6 to 7 am” that’s better than “I’ll write every day”. (I like Pacemaker for setting and tracking goals, because it’s insanely customizable, but again: whatever works.)

If you’re consistently failing, ask why. It may be a failure of willpower, or it may be the wrong goal — maybe you’re not a daily writer; maybe measuring hours isn’t working out for you; maybe you’ve set your goal too high to reach, maybe it’s too low for you to take seriously. Or it may be a genuine problem with your story. These have different fixes; be as honest with yourself as you can, and be flexible.

The first finish line is the hardest. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

satyesu

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
745
Reaction score
15
Thanks, everyone, and in particular your especially thoughtful response, katfeete.
 

talktidy

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
896
Reaction score
86
Location
Fabulous Sweyn's Eye
I write because I enjoy it and am now retired, so there are fewer demands on my time. When I was working, however, apart from the weekends, I was frequently too tired to put in consistent work on a project and would lose focus and drive.

In retrospect, I think better organisation of my week would have served me better. Laying aside an hour - even thirty minutes - a day to plant my backside in my chair with laptop, during which time i would forbid myself to use the internet or watch TV. I think sticking out that regimen, no matter how difficult the words came, and not fretting if no words came to start with, would ultimately have worked for me. It would have established a habit of writing.

Sigh... nothing like 20/20 hindsight.

You say that you have not completed a work of fiction for many years. There is a ton of advice on the internet and in books about planning and structuring a novel. IMHO, whether you care to plan your story or not, having a pretty solid idea of an ending from the outset helps to keep one on track and working to that end.

I would also reiterate the advice frequently conveyed on this board and that is to gag and throw a sack over the the head of your internal editor. My writing frequently makes me despair. Repeat after me: first draft, first draft, first draft...
 

gtanders

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
1,327
Location
The Pen Name Section
Website
leovaughn.com
Hey there satyesu, I don't know if you're still looking for input, but this book has really helped me: Story Genius by Lisa Cron. She'll teach you that anything you put in front of the reader must advance not only the external plot (push/shove of actions), but the internal plot--the character's evolving desires and motivations.

Writing that, it sounds so basic, but this book gave me a friendly kick in the pants and a fresh language (and method) for approaching this.

The reason I recommend it--if I'm finding myself unmotivated to finish something, I've come to believe (in my case) it indicates I'm working with material that doesn't really turn me on. This book helped me to marry a character's changing interior state to changing levels of external plot tension, which brought the magic back.

Maybe it's helpful?

Best wishes with your journey. Expect the bumps, and don't get too down about them. ;)

Cheers!
 

Nerdilydone

Banned
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
618
Reaction score
67
Location
...
It's really about the mindset. I keep thinking about how far along I would be if I'd stuck to some of my stories from years ago. One of the things that encouraged me back in the fanfiction days was getting reviews from people. Having other people rely on you for story is a great idea, because it's far easier to make excuses for yourself. Have someone, maybe a beta partner or a writing group, be someone who holds you accountable. I once wrote a little "contract" to a friend that if I didn't write a certain amount after a week, I'd have to pay her $20. That's a bit extreme, but if you tell someone you'll do it, you'll be more likely to follow through.

Also, maybe have a little chart or something that you write on to show how many words you've edited. Keep this in an Excel spreadsheet if you want to tally over time, or put it on a notice board if you want to see it without having to turn on your computer. Maybe take a little notebook and "clock in" like you're at a job, so that you feel like you're really having a job and that other people expect work from you.

At the end of the day, you just have to trust yourself and do it. Don't wait for "inspiration" -- make inspiration happen by doing the work.
 

satyesu

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
745
Reaction score
15
Thanks. Dammit, I'm going to have to finish that story I abandoned, aren't I? :p