That moment when you know the reader doesn't believe you

SwallowFeather · Mar 12, 2020

Most of us have probably had it. When you give the main character the news that a major character is in terrible danger or even "probably" dead, you know the reader isn't nearly as scared as the character is. B/c the character thinks this is real life, where people you care about can just effing die, whereas the reader knows you wouldn't dare kill this person without a REALLY good reason.

But this is the first time I've written one of those moments and known the reader is 100% SURE I'm lying about the character being probably dead. Because I'm writing a romance this time and those have actual publishing genre rules, and the label "Romance" on the back cover is your guarantee that, nope, the love-interest does NOT die in Chapter 20, no matter how much danger he is in, or how much I insist someone saw his unit surrounded & probably captured and close the chapter with someone gently breaking the news that the enemy always shoots prisoners.

So that got me thinking. Why are these moments still worthwhile? Are these moments still worthwhile? It feels worthwhile to me right now b/c it makes a good chapter ending and it sets up this tension in her the moment she sees him again, b/c he'll be doing something that really upsets her but she'll also be so relieved he survived. But I also feel like I nerfed her shock and grief a bit b/c when it came to it I just couldn't put myself through too much for something the reader knows for a fact isn't real. (I'm currently justifying this b/c the guy who gave her the news wasn't totally sure...)

I mean it makes sense that a moment like that would still be worthwhile... some of the time. Have you dealt with this? What's your sense of whether it's worth it & when & why?

shortstorymachinist · Mar 12, 2020

I think if it contributes to the narrative then it's worth keeping because:

1) Genre readers often come to their favorite genre expecting to see certain tropes play out, there can be comfort in it.

2) You have no idea how many readers might be experiencing this genre/trope/plot twist for the first time through your book and this scene, it could be novel and mind boggling to them.

3) A well done cliche stops feeling cliche really quickly. Looking at it from the outside it might seem lackluster, but how it feels in the moment could be brilliant.

So as long as you feel like it's well done and contributes, then I say keep it. You can always mull it over and revise later, if need be.

Sage · Mar 12, 2020

The readers of that genre have expectations, and they love when you meet those expectations. They're in it for the journey of how you did it. If you've put a character in danger, they might know the character will be safe in the end, but they want to know how it comes about. Give them a journey worth reading, even if they know the destination.

SwallowFeather · Mar 13, 2020

shortstorymachinist said:
3) A well done cliche stops feeling cliche really quickly. Looking at it from the outside it might seem lackluster, but how it feels in the moment could be brilliant.

Hm, I like this. When you think about it, every classic human moment is cliché. We've seen crying a billion times... but if we can identify with what the person's crying about, we're still moved. I think another way of saying what you're saying is that how the scene or moment fits into the larger story is what's important--b/c that's what makes it feel the way it feels: what came before, who these people are, what's at stake, all that structure & build-up.

shortstorymachinist said:
You can always mull it over and revise later, if need be.

Ain't that the truth! Rough-drafting can be so messy, leaving all this stuff behind you that you're not sure about, but that is the way you get there.

Sage said:
The readers of that genre have expectations, and they love when you meet those expectations. They're in it for the journey of how you did it. If you've put a character in danger, they might know the character will be safe in the end, but they want to know how it comes about. Give them a journey worth reading, even if they know the destination.

This makes sense; I've read a lot from this guy, who says that every genre has conventions and obligatory scenes (for instance every romance has some type of breakup/rejection/impossibility of being together scene before it resolves & they're together after all) and that a good writer will hit all of those and also innovate them, do them in new & interesting ways.

Unfortunately my "your boyfriend's probably dead" moment doesn't really qualify as this, it's more of a realistic garbled-rumors-of-war thing--I don't really have a cool idea for how he survived. On the other hand I may yet think of one! There are some interesting things I could do with picking which secondary character may have saved his life at the risk of their own.

Sonya Heaney · Mar 13, 2020

If (for example) the hero thinks the heroine is dead, the emotional satisfaction comes from how HE experiences those emotions. Yes, the reader knows both hero and heroine will survive, but the character doesn't. It's like in crime fiction. There can be terrifying times when the main character is in danger. We can be scared for them while also knowing they'll survive in the end.

There's an assumption only romance has those sorts of conventions, when in reality all genre fiction does.

frimble3 · Mar 14, 2020

How much I insist someone saw his unit surrounded & probably captured and close the chapter with someone gently breaking the news that the enemy always shoots prisoners.

But this is a classic trope!

The front of the tent was in flames, he dragged himself out, the enemy saw his battered body, and assumed he was just another dead guy, spit on him and left.

He was wounded and knocked unconscious, woke up in the dark, and had to sneak behind enemy lines to get back to his unit.

He was captured, but reports of the enemy shooting all prisoners were overstated: he and a couple of other wounded guys were traded back for the enemy leader's kid, or some such. Your guy of course will feel guilty over being traded, while so many of his buddies are still at risk.

Tent fell on him, he was covered and unconscious, so he was safe - but rescued by local allies or third parties, and it took him a while to explain that he wanted to get back to his people.

Because it's Romance, the reader is expecting him to survive, just find an interesting way for it to happen, so he can explain it to his LI. After a death, you can't just go "Ta-da, I'm baaaack!"

Maybe being near death gave him time to think about things - their love, their relationship, their future.
Maybe the thought of him being dead makes her think about things. Their love, their relationship, her future. How long is it? Long enough for his best buddy coming around regularly to 'see how she's doing'. Long enough for her to decide she won't ever fall in love with a soldier?

Work that death scene for all it's worth. The readers know it's not really real, but the characters don't.

anaemic_mind · Mar 14, 2020

frimble3 said:
Work that death scene for all it's worth. The readers know it's not really real, but the characters don't.

This ^^. I have a similar scene, but flipped with the MMC and lots of other secondary characters not knowing if FMC is dead or not. I am under no illusion that most readers will know she'll be OK as she's the lead. But it's MMC's grief that's key. It helps him rethink how she sees her and helps the reader see how he truly feels about her too.

indianroads · Mar 14, 2020

IMO if when you write the scene it's real for you, then it's more likely to be real for your readers as well.

Visceral descriptions + depth in the POV helps.

Nerdilydone · Mar 16, 2020

Or...or maybe...stick with me here....you kill the character off for real. Maybe have the lead female marry someone out of convenience, or go into some job field she wouldn't otherwise have bothered with.

Well, says the person who doesn't write genre romance. I suppose you could go with a "he's really injured" angle and has to be nursed back to health, causing the MC to make sacrifices.

L.C. Blackwell · Mar 23, 2020

It's called suspension of disbelief. The reader willingly agonizes with your heroine (if she continues to be plausible) because they committed to this ride already. If you think about it, every book that promises an HEA runs this way. We know they're gonna be ok, but you'd better throw some good obstacles in the way first. We want the triumph to be triumphant!

Meanwhile, how does the news of this probable death change your heroine's decisions? The reader might be pretty certain Hero will survive, but if she isn't, or thinks he's dead, she may do something quite drastic that she would not ordinarily do. Suddenly, we have a moment of major interest where the plot is concerned, that should affect the outcome of the novel.

The only reason this "death" would be pointless would be if your heroine bawls a few tears, and does nothing else but go on with her life and plans. THEN the reader might feel you'd wasted the incident and the emotion.

SwallowFeather · Mar 26, 2020

[double-post]

SwallowFeather · Mar 26, 2020

Thanks, y'all, for all your good advice, and sorry I've been absent. When it comes down to it, I think part of what bothered me about this scene is not just that the fake-death is obviously untrue, but that it's also... not truly necessary here. You've all said very good things that all tend toward, let's call it the centrality of this event, but the truth is in this moment of the story his fake-death is not central b/c I've got something more central. (Namely, when he reappears, he reappears animated with the extreme desire for vengeance on a certain traitor, and this begins to seriously drive the plot.)

So I should cut the fake-death. All I really need for that moment is fear and uncertainty. His side lost a bloody battle and she doesn't know where he is--that's plenty. What made me want to take it further was how well these words ring as the chapter's ending:

His eyes grew dark with what she could swear was pity. “You don't know?” he said gently. “They shoot their prisoners. Every time."

BUT I don't need things to be clear-cut in order to have this line. She knows how badly the battle went... she asks the survivor she found for news of the men she knows, he knows nothing except it wasn't looking good last he saw them... she asks what happens to prisoners. That'll do.

Again, thank you all.

That moment when you know the reader doesn't believe you

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather

shortstorymachinist

The score is still Q to 12!

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather

Sonya Heaney

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

anaemic_mind

I come with accessories now

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.

Nerdilydone

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather