Greta Thunberg’s mother on her daughter’s difficult life

Introversion

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Disclaimer: I don’t really understand the vitriol directed at this girl, but I do understand that she’s a controversial figure. Whatever your politics or feelings about this child, though, it’s hard to imagine not at least feeling sympathy for her parents after reading this, and for what this poor odd kid’s life was like growing up. I was at times bullied in school, so this passage was hard to read.

A new book by Greta Thunberg’s mother reveals the reality of family life during her daughter’s transformation from bullied teenager to climate icon

The Guardian said:
Svante and Greta have been at the end-of-term ceremony at school where they tried to make themselves invisible in the corridors and stairwells. When students openly point and laugh at you – even though you’re walking alongside your parent – then things have gone too far. Way too far.

At home in the kitchen, Svante explains to me what they’ve just experienced while Greta eats her rice and avocado. I get so angry at what I hear that I could tear down half the street we live on with my bare hands, but our daughter has a different reaction. She’s happy it’s in the open.

She devotes the whole Christmas break to telling us about unspeakably awful incidents. It’s like a movie montage featuring every imaginable bullying scenario. Stories about being pushed over in the playground, wrestled to the ground, or lured into strange places, the systematic shunning and the safe space in the girls’ toilets where she sometimes manages to hide and cry before the break monitors force her out into the playground again. For a full year, the stories keep coming. Svante and I inform the school, but the school isn’t sympathetic. Their understanding of the situation is different. It’s Greta’s own fault, the school thinks; several children have said repeatedly that Greta has behaved strangely and spoken too softly and never says hello. The latter they write in an email.

They write worse things than that, which is lucky for us, because when we report the school to the Swedish schools inspectorate we’re on a firm footing and there’s no doubt that the inspectorate will rule in our favour.

I explain to Greta that she’ll have friends again, later. But her response is always the same. “I don’t want to have a friend. Friends are children and all children are mean.”
 

JimmyB27

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Whatever your politics or feelings about this child, though, it’s hard to imagine not at least feeling sympathy for her parents after reading this, and for what this poor odd kid’s life was like growing up.

Oh, my sweet summer child...

'This is clearly more evidence that her parents are just indoctrinating her and manipulating her for profit - now they've written a book that they'll probably get millions for!'
 

Helix

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Wow, I had no idea.

I would ask what kind of person sends death threats to a kid, but it seems that this kind of behavior is becoming normalized these days :(


The usual suspects: misogynistic arseholes, RWNJs, free speech advocates who find that their faux concern for her welfare has no impact, so they go for a more direct method of shutting her up...
 

frimble3

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But her horrible school-life was excellent training for being sneered and attacked by adults. Gently raised children would be in tears, and give up. 'Been there, done that'.
These are the things that make fighters.
Long may she fight!
 
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Introversion

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Oh, my sweet summer child...

'This is clearly more evidence that her parents are just indoctrinating her and manipulating her for profit - now they've written a book that they'll probably get millions for!'

Too true, alas. And sigh.

I wonder, do childhood bullies ever grow to become compassionate people? Is bullying learned (perhaps due to childhood traumas of their own), or genetic?
 

mccardey

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Is bullying learned (perhaps due to childhood traumas of their own), or genetic?
In the 1980s there was a sudden outpouring of poor little children who bully have learned by being bullied at home. Be sad for your bully talk. All the onus was on the victim and his parents to "understand" the pain of the bully - which, of course, let everyone else off the hook. I'd never heard so much tosh in all my life and it enrages me to this day. To the extentant that bullies learn bullying at home, they are far more likely to learn it by seeing their parents succeed in life by being bullies. For the rest of it, bullies bully because they like it, because they can get away with it and because they're mean little bastards with no fucking empathy.

But those are just my thoughts.


:granny:


ETA: (I remember a teacher at a primary school saying about a child - not mine - who had just been sent home with glass in his schoolbag and bruises on his neck "Well, he is bit of a victim..." And nothing at all was done to deal with it.)
 
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Introversion

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I can be on-board with the M.L.B. theory of bully motivation, mccardey. :ROFL:

I met one of my high school bullies as an adult, once. (This is more unlikely than it perhaps sounds, as I moved halfway across the country after school.) He recognized me. I didn’t recognize him. He nattered on, apparently delighted to see me; a real “hail, fellow! Well met!” thing.

And I realized, standing there, alternately wanting to run or find a rock and brain him, listening to him chatter, that the torture he put me through as a ringleader of my bullies? Not one of his memories. Not a significant part of his life. Jus’ havin’ a little fun, yanno? It’s like that old saying: Gigging frogs is fun for the boys, but hell on the frogs.
 

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Too true, alas. And sigh.

I wonder, do childhood bullies ever grow to become compassionate people? Is bullying learned (perhaps due to childhood traumas of their own), or genetic?

Some do. There are many different kinds of bullies and motivations for bullying. I know of some cases where the bullies learned it from bullying parents, but even more I ran across seemed to have parents who were simply overindulgent or clueless or in denial about their own child's misbehavior. No matter how many times other parents or school officials complained to them, they insisted everyone else was to blame, or that the other kids were making up tales about their little darling who would never lie. Regardless of the background of the bully, it doesn't make it better for the victims.

It's not unusual for bullies to be bullied themselves by even bigger bullies. I was bullied pretty badly, but I wasn't terribly kind to people who were even less popular than I was, because I was mortified at the thought of being thought any less cool than I already was. It's logic that makes sense to a kid, I guess. I never stalked or harassed people, hit anyone, or stole lunch money, and was never part of a "mean girls" clique, but I sneered at nerdier kids sometimes, and laughed at mean things other people said sometimes. I rarely stuck up for weaker people when I should have, and I'm ashamed of that now. Did the victims think I was a bully when I did this?

It's also not unusual for people who have been marginalized and bullied to jump at the chance of being included--even if it means joining people who are tormenting others.

Being bullied doesn't always make you a stronger person. I was bullied, and I'm still pretty "soft" and easily hurt plus quick to blame myself when people dislike or are unkind to me etc. I don't know if this softness, which my dad loathed and was always trying to shame out of me, is innate and part of what made me a target as a child. Or did being bullied make me more sensitive and easily hurt? I was an odd kid--precocious in some ways and incredibly immature and naive in others, and with interests that were not the norm for a girl growing up in Newport Beach, CA. Plus I wore these big, heavy glasses until fourth grade, I had parents who did not believe in spending lots of money on "cool" girls' fashions that would be outgrown in a few months, and I was clumsy and horrific at sports in elementary school.

Kids aren't born with empathy and prosocial behavior fully developed. They have to be taught. Even nice kids can be situationally cruel. But some people do seem to be "broken" right out of the box. Still, some of the kids I knew who were pretty awful ended up being decent adults. A few ended up "in the system," so to speak. Timmy, the terror of our elementary school--who pantsed my younger brother and held one of my friends down and spit in her face repeatedly, among other crimes that were dismissed by nearly all the adults as attention-getting behavior and denied by his parents--did, after he started setting fires. Still other bullies probably ended up somewhere in between--ostensibly functional adults who are still bullies in some respects, but clever at channeling it into socially acceptable or easy-to-miss behaviors.
 
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mccardey

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Being bullied doesn't always make you a stronger person. .
I doubt that being bullied ever makes a child a stronger person. Stronger than what? And how would you measure that? And surely, surely, if strength could be measured, there are kinder, more pro-social ways to work towards it? And that's assuming that strengthening is even needed (and I wouldn't take a bully's word, or a bully-enablers word that it was.)
 

Roxxsmom

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I doubt that being bullied ever makes a child a stronger person. Stronger than what? And how would you measure that? And surely, surely, if strength could be measured, there are kinder, more pro-social ways to work towards it? And that's assuming that strengthening is even needed (and I wouldn't take a bully's word, or a bully-enablers word that it was.)

The conventional wisdom still dispensed in TV, movies and novels is that the only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them. But there's evidence that this doesn't work. It's hard to argue with folks who have anecdotes about how the bullies only stopped picking on them when they fought back. There are also a lot of hypotheses about how bullies are really cowards, or are kids with low self esteem, or maybe they're kids with too much self esteem, or they're neglected by their own parents and want attention, or they are spoiled, or they're abused at home.

I think there are different kinds of bullies and bullying, and there are different bullying experiences. I think most kids have experienced being picked on by a single bully, one who acts alone or with a small group and tends to pick on younger or smaller kids, often when the victims are alone on the way to or from school. Often these "lone wolves" are universally hated and feared by other kids (like Timmy the psycho in my neighborhood).

But I think the worst kind is where one is frequently ganged up on by a group, or several groups, of other children, or even ostracized, bullied and marginalized by pretty much everyone in their school and other social environments. These kids often have few, if any, friends or any friends they have are highly unreliable. I experienced this in my lower elementary school years, and it sounds like what Greta went through on steroids, and it's truly awful.

It's unlikely all those kids were psychos, though there can certainly be group dynamics where there are more mean kids than average in a school class, or where the adults at the school completely fail to enforce prosocial norms and let the kids run amok and become more and more unruly, like it's Lord of the Flies or something. Sad to think this is the case in Sweden, a place progressive folks often idealize as a place that is more utopian and advanced when it comes to education and social engineering. But people are still people, and some are idiots or worse.

In cases like this, I blame the adults involved. They victim blamed. If only the victims were more like everyone else blah, blah, blah. It's the job of parents, and of teachers and other school staff to teach kids empathy and compassion, or at the very least to enforce appropriate behavior. Sometimes the teachers even encourage or join in with bullying. It's truly nightmarish for kids like Greta who really are developmentally different in some ways.
 

mccardey

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The conventional wisdom still dispensed in TV, movies and novels is that the only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them. But there's evidence that this doesn't work. It's hard to argue with folks who have anecdotes about how the bullies only stopped picking on them when they fought back. There are also a lot of hypotheses about how bullies are really cowards, or are kids with low self esteem, or maybe they're kids with too much self esteem, or they're neglected by their own parents and want attention, or they are spoiled, or they're abused at home.

I think there are different kinds of bullies and bullying, and there are different bullying experiences. I think most kids have experienced being picked on by a single bully, one who acts alone or with a small group and tends to pick on younger or smaller kids, often when the victims are alone on the way to or from school. Often these "lone wolves" are universally hated and feared by other kids (like Timmy the psycho in my neighborhood).

But I think the worst kind is where one is frequently ganged up on by a group, or several groups, of other children, or even ostracized, bullied and marginalized by pretty much everyone in their school and other social environments. These kids often have few, if any, friends or any friends they have are highly unreliable. I experienced this in my lower elementary school years, and it sounds like what Greta went through on steroids, and it's truly awful.

It's unlikely all those kids were psychos, though there can certainly be group dynamics where there are more mean kids than average in a school class, or where the adults at the school completely fail to enforce prosocial norms and let the kids run amok and become more and more unruly, like it's Lord of the Flies or something. Sad to think this is the case in Sweden, a place progressive folks often idealize as a place that is more utopian and advanced when it comes to education and social engineering. But people are still people, and some are idiots or worse.

In cases like this, I blame the adults involved. They victim blamed. If only the victims were more like everyone else blah, blah, blah. It's the job of parents, and of teachers and other school staff to teach kids empathy and compassion, or at the very least to enforce appropriate behavior. Sometimes the teachers even encourage or join in with bullying. It's truly nightmarish for kids like Greta who really are developmentally different in some ways.
I think bullying kids need adults to come down on them hard. And bullied kids need adults to stand up for them, and to model the standing up behaviour to the other kids.

I'm of the opinion that that is one of the most important jobs adults can do. (Supporting vaccination is another important job that adults can do.)
 
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Layla Nahar

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I worked overseas as an assistant English teacher. One of the school districts I went to had had a lot of trouble with gang-like behavior, rampant discipline problems and bullying. Someone up the command chain had made decisions to combat this, making all kinds of changes in the system to discourage the behavior. All the teachers I encountered were on the 'this has to stop' bandwagon. Institutional change can happen, it seems.
 

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I think bullying kids need adults to come down on them hard. And bullied kids need adults to stand up for them, and to model the standing up behaviour to the other kids.

I'm of the opinion that that is one of the most important jobs adults can do. (Supporting vaccination is another important job that adults can do.)

The Kid had trouble with a bully, but she wasn't a "traditional" bully. She was the gaslighting, backbiting type of bully (more common with girls than boys, I think). The Kid called her on her behavior. The adults at the school rallied around the bully and gave her an award for being the nicest kid in her class.

There's a whole class of bullies that are extremely good at fooling adults.
 

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I wonder, do childhood bullies ever grow to become compassionate people? Is bullying learned (perhaps due to childhood traumas of their own), or genetic?

For what it's worth, my childhood bully wrote to me on Facebook within the last month. She apologized for how she'd treated me, said it was because of how much she disliked herself and how she took it out on me and that was wrong, and that she became a teacher, worked at the school we'd gone to, and used her treatment of me for her students as an example of who not to become. So, yeah, it is possible for bullies to become aware of who they are/were and what they've done and take steps to rectify it.
 

Introversion

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For what it's worth, my childhood bully wrote to me on Facebook within the last month. She apologized for how she'd treated me, said it was because of how much she disliked herself and how she took it out on me and that was wrong, and that she became a teacher, worked at the school we'd gone to, and used her treatment of me for her students as an example of who not to become. So, yeah, it is possible for bullies to become aware of who they are/were and what they've done and take steps to rectify it.

It’s nice to hear positive stories like that, so thanks for sharing.

I’ve no doubt that some of my bullies were in a bad place themselves. It’s hard to find sympathy, when they were the cause of four years of misery for me. Maybe I could forgive them, if I received a genuine apology as you did? I don’t expect to ever find out — some of them are dead now (drug overdoses, for many), and it’s a rare person from high school that I’ve connected to on social media.
 

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It’s nice to hear positive stories like that, so thanks for sharing.

I’ve no doubt that some of my bullies were in a bad place themselves. It’s hard to find sympathy, when they were the cause of four years of misery for me. Maybe I could forgive them, if I received a genuine apology as you did? I don’t expect to ever find out — some of them are dead now (drug overdoses, for many), and it’s a rare person from high school that I’ve connected to on social media.

There's one person in particular who I know had a rough time as a kid. We were best friends on and off. She was one of those people who used what she knew about you to hurt you. She didn't just do it to me, she did it to a lot of kids, but for some incomprehensible reason it was three years before I broke the abuse cycle. We have a lot of mutual friends on Facebook; occasionally someone shares a post of hers. She seems to have grown into a thoughtful person. I can't forgive her. She broke that in me 45 years ago.
 

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I think it’s great that she had the words for what she went through that I didn’t at that age. I’m so sorry that this happened to her though.
 

mccardey

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There's a whole class of bullies that are extremely good at fooling adults.
Absolutely there are. Which is why kids need to be trusted when they talk about it. It's also good to talk about personality styles that don't "click". But bullies know what they're doing and do it because they can, because they enjoy it, and frequently because they have an audience who supports it. Assertive kids =/= bullies. But the victims of bullies know exactly what bullying is, and yes, I agree - they should be taken seriously when they call it out.

ETA: Back to topic - this was nice :) Greta meets Malala
 
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Roxxsmom

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I think bullying kids need adults to come down on them hard. And bullied kids need adults to stand up for them, and to model the standing up behaviour to the other kids.

I'm of the opinion that that is one of the most important jobs adults can do. (Supporting vaccination is another important job that adults can do.)

I agree. And yes, there is evidence that teaching kids how to identify bullying, how to be kind and empathetic, and how to stand up to bullying in groups when they see it directed at others, has a success record. And letting the victims know someone has their back, and that they shouldn't be frightened or ashamed to "tattle." Regular confidential questionnaires distributed to students can be helpful at identifying problems that might be taking place behind the backs of adults. There was still a lot of that "no one likes a tattletale" and "handle it yourself" stuff coming down from grownups when I was a kid. I thought that had finally been exposed as seriously flawed and problematic with all the schools having anti-bullying programs in place, but I guess some schools never did that "in service" training module with their staff or something.

I think it’s great that she had the words for what she went through that I didn’t at that age. I’m so sorry that this happened to her though.

That's a tough thing, especially with younger kids--finding the words. I remember being in this awful nursery school for what seemed like forever, though my parents said they realized something was wrong within a couple of weeks and pulled me out. The teacher was mean to me, and to certain other kids, too. I was a "crybaby" to be mocked. Others were clumsy or couldn't sit still or whatever. She'd make us go sit in a utility area behind the furnace when we were "bad.." and once the got a pail out and splashed water in my face when I couldn't stop crying and threatened to throw the whole bucket over my head. When a kid spilled their milk at snack time, or if someone wet their pants, she'd shame them and encourage the other kids to mock them, etc.

I couldn't tell my folks what was happening, because at the age of 4, I didn't really have the words to express how I felt about going there on a schoolbus each day (it's so weird to think of parents putting kids on a schoolbus when they are 4 now, but the school had this awesome reputation, and it was a fair distance away in Chicago, and my folks only had one car back then). Also, I sort of assumed at that age that grownups were omniscient, so if the teacher was mad at me and thought I cried too much, then my parents must have known about it. In fact, they tended to get mad when I cried at home, as crying was considered "bad behavior" back then, and they often scolded me for getting so focused on something I was doing I didn't "hear" them when they called me--another complaint teachers had sometimes.

I think that plays into the dynamic too, even with older kids. Sometimes the kids are shamed and marginalized for things that make them "different," issues their own parents are sometimes frustrated by. Sometimes it's an unidentified difference, such as a kid being on autistic spectrum, or ADHD, or having a learning disability or Tourettes (I remember a boy who constantly cleared his throat in fifth grade, and the teacher frequently shamed him by calling him the "Room 11 Bull." Other time it's just a personality quirk, like crying more readily that most kids their age, or having unusual interests (like being a little girl who preferred drawing dragons and dinosaurs to drawing flowers and houses and preferred make believe games or reading to hopscotch and handball at recess).

I'm glad this brave girl has found her voice and a passion that is raising awareness of a serious problem. Can she feel strident sometimes when insisting no one should ever fly anywhere or eat any meat at all? Sure. But if people cut down on flying and meat eating overall, it makes a difference.
 
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mccardey

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I remember being in this awful nursery school for what seemed like forever, though my parents said they realized something was wrong within a couple of weeks and pulled me out. The teacher was mean to me, and to certain other kids, too. I was a "crybaby" to be mocked. Others were clumsy or couldn't sit still or whatever. She'd make us go sit in a utility area behind the furnace when we were "bad.." and once the got a pail out and splashed water in my face when I couldn't stop crying and threatened to throw the whole bucket over my head. When a kid spilled their milk at snack time, or if someone wet their pants, she'd shame them and encourage the other kids to mock them, etc.

I couldn't tell my folks what was happening, because at the age of 4, I didn't really have the words to express how I felt about going there on a schoolbus each day (it's so weird to think of parents putting kids on a schoolbus when they are 4 now, but the school had this awesome reputation, and it was a fair distance away in Chicago, and my folks only had one car back then). Also, I sort of assumed at that age that grownups were omniscient, so if the teacher was mad at me and thought I cried too much, then my parents must have known about it. In fact, they tended to get mad when I cried at home, as crying was considered "bad behavior" back then, and they often scolded me for getting so focused on something I was doing I didn't "hear" them when they called me--another complaint teachers had sometimes.

Well, that just broke my heart. Please give Four-Year-Old You a hug from me.
 

neandermagnon

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I agree. And yes, there is evidence that teaching kids how to identify bullying, how to be kind and empathetic, and how to stand up to bullying in groups when they see it directed at others, has a success record.

In the UK* it's compulsory for schools to have a bullying policy, implement it and take a proactive approach to dealing with it.

*okay I'm pretty sure it is the whole UK, but definitely in England and Wales where I did my teacher training.

It definitely works. In both my kids (age 10 and 13) schools, there is far less bullying and teachers deal with the bullying that there is far better than they ever did when I was a kid. Astronomically better. Granted many schools are not perfect and I have heard from parents of children at other schools about situations that weren't dealt with well but even with all those things, it's still lightyears better than when I was at school.

The worst incident of bullying that I heard about recently (at a different school) - which was horrific and violent, don't want to give details because it wasn't my kid and keeping people's info confidential, etc - the school dealt with it thoroughly including kicking the ringleader out of the school. Things still happen but having teachers take it seriously and deal with it robustly makes a massive difference and sends a strong message to the other kids.

Overall I think that the kids at both my children's schools are on the whole a lot more compassionate than in my generation and accepting of children who are different. I know of examples of kids with ASD and trans kids being accepted by their classmates. When I was at school, one of my friends who was later diagnosed with dyslexia, Aspergers and dyspraxia was systematically and mercilessly bullied throughout her time at school and the teachers did nothing about it. I used to get into fights sticking up for her because no-one else was. I even had some utter moron of a boy in my tutor group try to shame me for standing up for her, saying that I was being unkind to her because somehow I was supposed to let everyone bully her so she'd "learn to stand up for herself" - by my reckoning it took her 20 years to get a normal level of self confidence back again after leaving school. She's happily married now - her husband and little boy are also on the spectrum. So there is a happy ending, eventually.

With some things like autistic spectrum, all it takes is a teacher to explain what ASD is and that if the child with it seems to be a bit different or to not know what to do in social situations, it's because of the ASD and they're not doing it on purpose. (That's all they've done in my kids' schools anyway.) That combined with giving a clear message that bullying won't be tolerated. I don't buy all this "kids are so mean" excuse like there's nothing adults can do about it - humans are social primates and kids behave like any other social primate with a dominance hierarchy - this can get out of hand sometimes. It's up to the adult social primates to teach the juvenile social primates what is and is not acceptable behaviour and bring out their compassionate and caring sides.
 
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mccardey

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In the UK* it's compulsory for schools to have a bullying policy, implement it and take a proactive approach to dealing with it. <<>snip> It definitely works. In both my kids (age 10 and 13) schools, there is far less bullying and teachers deal with the bullying that there is far better than they ever did when I was a kid. Astronomically better. Granted many schools are not perfect and I have heard from parents of children at other schools about situations that weren't dealt with well but even with all those things, it's still lightyears better than when I was at school.

Same

It's up to the adult social primates to teach the juvenile social primates what is and is not acceptable behaviour and bring out their compassionate and caring sides.

Yes to this.
 

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With some things like autistic spectrum, all it takes is a teacher to explain what ASD is and that if the child with it seems to be a bit different or to not know what to do in social situations, it's because of the ASD and they're not doing it on purpose. (That's all they've done in my kids' schools anyway.) That combined with giving a clear message that bullying won't be tolerated.
YES. But how do you do that while honoring a child's privacy? I've been discouraged from doing this specifically and only do it if a student or parent asks me to or if the situation is so dire I have to say something (for example the public pantslessness incident).

I don't buy all this "kids are so mean" excuse like there's nothing adults can do about it - humans are social primates and kids behave like any other social primate with a dominance hierarchy - this can get out of hand sometimes. It's up to the adult social primates to teach the juvenile social primates what is and is not acceptable behaviour and bring out their compassionate and caring sides.
QFT ^