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Thread: The Covid-19 virus

  1. #776
    THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES BenPanced's Avatar
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  2. #777
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    GOP Senators still holding up the bailout because poor people might get too much money.

    In the meantime, McConnell frames the one time pitiful payment of $1200 as a "four figure payment." Is he effing kidding? That hardly covers one month's rent for people.

    And now the payments might not go out until May. So your $1200 is now supposed to cover people for three months or more.
    Last edited by MaeZe; 03-26-2020 at 03:13 AM.
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  3. #778
    Just Another Lazy Perfectionist Brightdreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post
    GOP Senators still holding up the bailout because poor people might get too much money.

    In the meantime, McConnell frames the one time pitiful payment of $1200 as a "four figure payment." Is he fucking kidding? That hardly covers one months' rent for people.

    And now the payments might not go out until May.
    I'm frankly not expecting payments to go out at all... and if they do, the TeaOP will demand it back (with interest) come tax time.

    (Heck, at this point I'm expecting them to sneak in legislation to just light poor people on fire. Because fire cleanses and pain is the only way people learn not to be poor during pandemics, and because they seem instinctively incapable of not being cruel.)
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  4. #779
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Here's a sobering article.

    As the COVID-19 pandemic intensifies, some communities will be better equipped to treat the sickest patients — specifically those requiring admission to intensive care units — than others. Not only do ICU capabilities vary from hospital to hospital, but also some parts of the country have far more critical care beds by population than others.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/81994...area-stacks-up

    My own county frankly sucks, with only 17 beds per 100,000 population (the national average is around 29). This in spite of having a major university medical center here, and several kaisers, and a Sutter health and several other hospitals. We're next door to one of the worst counties in the country (Stockton, CA) with only 10 per 100k. No California county seems to be above average either, which is surprising given the number of medical schools and general wealth of the population.

    The best place to be is apparently Iowa City, Iowa. For some reason, they are highest in the country with 69 per 100,000 population. A couple of counties in Florida are next (with around 65 per 100,000), but given the age of the population there, they are probably going to need it and then some
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 03-26-2020 at 03:56 AM.
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  5. #780
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    The best place to be is apparently Iowa City, Iowa. For some reason, they are highest in the country with 69 per 100,000 population.
    Probably because that's where University of Iowa is, they have a good medical school, and Iowa City is a relatively small city.

  6. #781
    practical experience, FTW Sunflowerrei's Avatar
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    NYC's confirmed infected numbers went up to 20,011 tonight. I live near a hospital in Queens. I've been hearing sirens all day, with more and more of them for the past two days. It's frightening.

    This is from the New York Times: 72 Hours inside a NYC hospital battling coronavirus. This is what is happening inside Elmhurst Hospital.


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  7. #782
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    PSA Safe Grocery Shopping in COVID-19 Pandemic UPDATED!!! (Dr. Jeffrey VanWingen)

    Dr. VanWingen has stated that he'll continue to update as new info comes in. Please watch.
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  8. #783
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ari Meermans View Post
    PSA Safe Grocery Shopping in COVID-19 Pandemic – UPDATED!!! (Dr. Jeffrey VanWingen)

    Dr. VanWingen has stated that he'll continue to update as new info comes in. Please watch.
    OMG! I so hope most of the food and supplies I bought at the beginning of this were before the virus was very widespread in this area. One, because I just couldn't be that meticulous, and two because I already handled and ate things that weren't meticulously handled.

    One thing I have done is use hand sanitizer inside my house. When I handle the mail and stuff from the store that I've bought in the last couple weeks, I use hand sanitizer as if it were contaminated. I applaud you snitchcat for your diligence. I'm finding it so hard to be that careful.

    My other comment about that video, which I find otherwise excellent, is I've not seen evidence contaminated food is safe. Every time I see people preparing food as they breathe over it I cringe.

    Bringing it home and reheating it in the microwave or oven seems safe.

    And I get it this is respiratory and not oral spread. But all I want is the evidence saying this prepared food is safe.
    A people that no longer can believe anything cannot make up its mind. It is deprived not only of its capacity to act but also of its capacity to think and to judge. And with such a people you can then do what you please.[2] Hannah Arendt, 1978 [Brookings Institute]

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  9. #784
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post
    And I get it this is respiratory and not oral spread. But all I want is the evidence saying this prepared food is safe.
    It's based more on general knowledge of how respiratory viruses tend to be transmitted (via droplets landing on mucous membranes and especially via aerosols inhaled into lungs), including other respiratory coronaviruses. However, a small number of cases present with diarrhea as a symptom, and it does raise the question whether they got it via an intestinal route. Stomach acid actually neutralizes most bacteria and viruses, and this coronavirus capsule is pretty fragile (not like norovirus which is pretty tough and long lasting), but it's possible people on proton pump inhibitors, or with conditions leading to a compromised intestinal mucosal boundary, could be more vulnerable to ingestion of the virus, even if most people aren't likely to get it this way.

    I'm not sure that's evidence that can ever be definitively provided, except via the absence of cases attributed directly to this. Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and most cases now are unknown in their origin. The only possibility for future definitive evidence is as more people self isolate for more than two weeks and only obtain food via delivery, we will know whether the people exhibiting that level of isolation are getting the virus or not (and if so, how frequently are they getting it).

    This is a good article about potential modes of transmission and the need for health agencies to be clearer with terminology and more consistent with their messaging about routes of transmission.

    http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...-hinge-science

    There is, I suspect, bigger risk with going to the grocery store, or to pick up take out if the place is crowded. Our local Trader Joes is evidently enforcing social distancing--limiting the number of people allowed in the store at a time and lining people up six feet apart outside--but most other stores are not.

    Some folks are still clueless. I had a package of amazon basics white washcloths delivered today (for use as bleach cloths), and the guy knocked on the door and wanted us to sign for a 12 package! This delivery guy was kind of taken aback when my spouse asked him to leave the little electronic thingy on the ledge and stand back a ways while he (my spouse) signed. It's like he had no idea there was this epidemic going on and we are supposed to isolate as much as possible. All that for a 12 dollar package of cleaning cloths.

    For comparison, a year and a half ago UPS left my computer on the porch when they came to deliver it when I was at work a year and a half ago--didn't need a signature for something worth nearly 2k. Luckily it was still there when I got back.
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 03-26-2020 at 09:41 AM.
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  10. #785
    Supreme Guessinator AW Moderator Sage's Avatar
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    As far as the stomach issues are involved, I've been wondering if the fact that we may be changing our diets due to staying at home/avoiding shopping/grocery store shortages might be causing the stomach problems, rather than the virus.

  11. #786
    Dragon-kitty. Snitchcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Echo View Post
    Well, I've got something going on - no fever (I don't think...our thermometer broke, and we can't find one in stock anywhere), but I have a cough. And I can't breathe too deeply without hearing and feeling the air rattle through my lungs. If this keeps up, I'll be calling my doctor.
    Would there be a phone app that could help with taking your temperature?
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  12. #787
    Dragon-kitty. Snitchcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage View Post
    As far as the stomach issues are involved, I've been wondering if the fact that we may be changing our diets due to staying at home/avoiding shopping/grocery store shortages might be causing the stomach problems, rather than the virus.
    This is logical, IMO.

    Also, since people are cooking again for the most part, is food being thoroughly cooked? I know pork can be difficult to ensure it's cooked all the way through, but chicken is easy to undercook.
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  13. #788
    Dragon-kitty. Snitchcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post
    OMG! I so hope most of the food and supplies I bought at the beginning of this were before the virus was very widespread in this area. One, because I just couldn't be that meticulous, and two because I already handled and ate things that weren't meticulously handled.

    My other comment about that video, which I find otherwise excellent, is I've not seen evidence contaminated food is safe. Every time I see people preparing food as they breathe over it I cringe.

    Bringing it home and reheating it in the microwave or oven seems safe.

    And I get it this is respiratory and not oral spread. But all I want is the evidence saying this prepared food is safe.
    I do exactly what the doctor in the video does, except my clean surface is an area near the door so I don't track any unnecessary dirt, etc., into the house after I get in. Obviously, I have an area to stand / sit in while I deal with external items, including food.

    As far as actual prepared food goes, I avoid it. So, unless I can see how or know how it's prepared, I cook. And I can't stand cooking, lol. The advantage here is that everyone wears a mask -- from the street cleaner to the Chief Executive. Recently, some people have been spotted without a mask, but those people are avoided by far more than 6 feet; we're almost crossing the street. Extreme? Yes. Safe? Absolutely.

    One thing I have done is use hand sanitizer inside my house. When I handle the mail and stuff from the store that I've bought in the last couple weeks, I use hand sanitizer as if it were contaminated. I applaud you snitchcat for your diligence. I'm finding it so hard to be that careful.
    Thanks, MaeZe.

    I've been wiping down my items for years. It's a consequence of having parents who worked in the medical sector and of living in HK -- pollution, construction dust (and associated germs and bacteria), population density, etc., so the changes have been minor for me. However, I do get fed up of doing this, especially with the disinfectant. On the other hand, all I have to do is consider my kitties and that gets rid of the "not again!" mindset.

    I'm sure everyone has their motivation for disinfecting, but IME, I've found it more motivating if I consider those I care for -- human and animal. Maybe the compassion motivation would work better for some, or for those who may not have consciously considered this?
    Last edited by Snitchcat; 03-26-2020 at 11:07 AM.
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  14. #789
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage View Post
    As far as the stomach issues are involved, I've been wondering if the fact that we may be changing our diets due to staying at home/avoiding shopping/grocery store shortages might be causing the stomach problems, rather than the virus.
    Well, Covid-19 does present with stomach issues, like diarrhea, in about 30% of cases, and in fact it may be correlated with the cases turning out to be more serious as they progress. One problem was that patients, or even medical personnel, did not suspect covid-19 in patients who had diarrhea, nausea, or stomach pain as initial presenting complaints, because we've all had it drilled into us that it always presents as a dry cough and fever initially. As it turns out, covid-19 symptoms can vary between patients.

    Interestingly, some people presenting with stomach pain but not a cough turn out to have abnormal chest scans, indicating the "ground glass" appearance and other signs of chest inflammation, even pneumonia. So do some of the "silent cases" that test positive. I'm not an MD, but it seems odd to me that people can have a lot going on in their chests without feeling it yet.

    Of course, people can get food poisoning from not storing or preparing food correctly as well. Food poisoning isn't accompanied by respiratory symptoms, though, unless there's something else going on at the same time.
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 03-26-2020 at 12:09 PM.
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  15. #790
    Absolute Parsley feyngirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    Interestingly, some people presenting with stomach pain but not a cough turn out to have abnormal chest scans, indicating the "ground glass" appearance and other signs of chest inflammation, even pneumonia. So do some of the "silent cases" that test positive. I'm not an MD, but it seems odd to me that people can have a lot going on in their chests without feeling it yet.
    FWIW, I'm now in isolation with a cough and fatigue (and maybe fever but sadly we didn't bother checking the batteries of the thermometer in time) and since I'm in a very infected area I think it's probably covid-19. I noticed something was slightly off with my voice about four days before the main symptoms hit, but it was mild and not correlated with a cough. Given my chest now feels like someone has run a cheese grater over it, I think that was the virus establishing itself. So if you notice very mild voice/chest symptoms, that could be a warning. Even now, when I'm feeling pretty grotty and my chest feels terrible, the cough itself is very mild.

    On a more positive note, there is a new study from a modelling group at Oxford which suggests the infection rate may have been underestimated, which would in turn mean the mortality rate is lower than currently thought:
    https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-...f-41bea055720b
    Hopefully soon we will have an antibody test and can get a more accurate idea of who has been infected.
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  16. #791
    practical experience, FTW cbenoi1's Avatar
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    Coronavirus: Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52043767

    The government has ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson to help deal with the coronavirus crisis. The firm, headed by British inventor Sir James Dyson, said it had designed a new type of ventilator in response to a call on behalf of the NHS. The order is still subject to the devices passing stringent medical tests but that is expected to happen quickly. Dyson has had hundreds of engineers working round the clock to design the ventilators from scratch. It hopes to build the ventilators at scale from its UK base in Wiltshire - using aircraft hangars that were used to stuff parachutes in the World War Two. However, the blitz spirit the company is keen to channel will not produce immediate results. It is thought that even if regulatory approval is forthcoming, it could take a couple of weeks to move from prototype to the device being made in significant scale.
    Labatt's Vancouver brewery to start making hand sanitizer
    https://biv.com/article/2020/03/laba...hand-sanitizer

    Labatt brewing facilities in Edmonton, Montreal and London will also be used to produce hand sanitizer. Labatt’s Disaster Relief Program was established in 2012 and has been used to bring 460,000 cans of water to Canadians in need during the Fort McMurray wildfires and the 2018 floods in eastern Canada.
    Coronavirus: Canada Goose to start making medical gear for health-care workers
    https://globalnews.ca/news/6730438/c...-medical-gear/

    The apparel maker, best known for its down-filled parkas, says it will start manufacturing medical gear at two of its facilities next week, including in Winnipeg.

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  17. #792
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  18. #793
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feyngirl View Post
    FWIW, I'm now in isolation with a cough and fatigue (and maybe fever but sadly we didn't bother checking the batteries of the thermometer in time) and since I'm in a very infected area I think it's probably covid-19. I noticed something was slightly off with my voice about four days before the main symptoms hit, but it was mild and not correlated with a cough. Given my chest now feels like someone has run a cheese grater over it, I think that was the virus establishing itself. So if you notice very mild voice/chest symptoms, that could be a warning. Even now, when I'm feeling pretty grotty and my chest feels terrible, the cough itself is very mild.
    Ooof! Good luck, I hope you come through it safely and quickly!

  19. #794
    I should be writing. Alpha Echo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snitchcat View Post
    Would there be a phone app that could help with taking your temperature?
    I'll have to check on that. I think I tried once awhile back and didn't really find anything that worked.

    Fortunately, I woke up feeling so much better. For a few days, I'd been waking up at 4am coughing. Today I woke up with my alarm and without too much cough. So..hoping it was just a bug and is going away!

    Thanks to everyone who left me reps. I love you guys. <3
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  20. #795
    Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone RedRajah's Avatar
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    I'm trying not to freak out. Don't have a fever, but my throat is scratchy and my chest feels tight. :-/

  21. #796
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Good wishes to all of you. This sucks.

    I'm petrified I'm going to bring it in my house on something. I keep telling myself that I'm being careful enough but then I doubt myself.
    Last edited by MaeZe; 03-26-2020 at 11:01 PM.
    A people that no longer can believe anything cannot make up its mind. It is deprived not only of its capacity to act but also of its capacity to think and to judge. And with such a people you can then do what you please.[2] Hannah Arendt, 1978 [Brookings Institute]

    Space Force.
    Because feeding poor people is socialism.

    "Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way." - Lizmonster and others.

  22. #797
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    Okay, the last two days I've spent far too much time over at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries reviewing the COVID-19 death toll numbers.

    U.S. deaths have been doubling every 3-4 days since March 1. We're at 1,037 as of this morning. By my estimate, if social distancing doesn't start flattening the current death curve, U.S. will have 25k dead from this thing by Easter. And then it starts to really jump.

    Please, someone, tell me I've done the math wrong. Or that I'm misunderstanding how these things work.

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  23. #798
    Possibly A Mermaid Queen Absolute Sage lizmonster's Avatar
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    I don't think you've done the math wrong.

    But statistics and projections are just that. What we should see by April 12 is the areas of the country that have been doing things that have helped, which should give us more information.

    It is galling that there's essentially no federal leadership on this at all.
    Last edited by lizmonster; 03-27-2020 at 12:24 AM.
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  24. #799
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    On the CoVid related, non-medical front, https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...cy/ar-BB11L35q
    The government of British Columbia has moved against hoarding for resale! Too soon to see the results, but a step in the right direction.
    Ebay and Amazon have already closed down sellers in the same circumstances.
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  25. #800
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbenoi1 View Post
    Coronavirus: Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52043767



    Labatt's Vancouver brewery to start making hand sanitizer
    https://biv.com/article/2020/03/laba...hand-sanitizer



    Coronavirus: Canada Goose to start making medical gear for health-care workers
    https://globalnews.ca/news/6730438/c...-medical-gear/




    -cb
    Why does Sir James Dyson seem so much more practical and helpful than Elon Musk?

    And, bless millionaires who use their own money and initiative to do the necessary rather than waiting for the government to get it's act together and step in!
    They give the rich a good name.
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