The Covid-19 virus

JJ Litke · Mar 29, 2020

HEB has a lot more curbside orders available now, but supplies are still low on a lot of things (why the hell are people hoarding goddamn eggs??). I’m having to buy for me and MrJJ like always, but now also for my mom and her boyfriend. They’re both such fucking luddites that they’ve refused to learn enough technology to manage ordering groceries online themselves (or video chats, or email, or any of the other basic fucking things they could be doing right now to stay in touch with friends and family).

We did finally figure out that my mom is better early in the day than later (sundowner syndrome). I’m so damn frustrated that somehow it’s all on me to get her through this, because she’s so very deep in denial that she refuses to let my sister or brother (who live in other cities/states) order goddamn grocery deliveries for her. Ugh.

MaeZe · Mar 29, 2020

Incompetrump stopped threatening to open things up by Easter and is now saying lockdown until Apr 30 at least.

There were some empty shelves at Whole Foods today but I got everything on my list. I saw TP and eggs but those were not on my list. The milk shelf was short but I got the milk I wanted.

MaeZe · Mar 29, 2020

NYT article reprinted by another site:
Medical Expert [Fauci] Who Corrects Trump Is Now a Target of the Far Right

This suggests bots and trolls are at work:

... Some thought Dr. Fauci was slighting the president, leading to a vitriolic online reaction. On Twitter and Facebook, a post that falsely claimed he was part of a secret cabal who opposed Mr. Trump was soon shared thousands of times, reaching roughly 1.5 million people. ...

An analysis by The New York Times found over 70 accounts on Twitter that have promoted the hashtag #FauciFraud, with some tweeting as frequently as 795 times a day. The anti-Fauci sentiment is being reinforced by posts from Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, a conservative group; Bill Mitchell, host of the far-right online talk show “YourVoice America”; and other outspoken Trump supporters such as Shiva Ayyadurai, who has falsely claimed to be the inventor of email. ...

... On YouTube, conspiracy-theory videos about Dr. Fauci have racked up hundreds of thousands of views in the past week.

And yet only a couple weeks ago (according to the article) social media was very positive about Fauci.

Seems to me a few people are responsible for the attacks.

ElaineA · Mar 30, 2020

MaeZe said:
Seems to me a few people are responsible for the attacks.

Much of it is coming from inside the house.

The goalpost shifting they do is monumental. Now he's going to take credit for "only" 100K deaths! And those 100K are all Biden's fault because they left the cupboards bare!

The number of voices amplifying that message is alarming, nauseating, and demoralizing.

On the upside, FOXNews insiders are starting to get nervous about being the focus of what could turn out to be the biggest class action lawsuit of all time, for spewing information that had long since been proven false onto their nightly airways. I suspect the firing of Trish Regan was more about liability limitation, but unfortunately for them, their loudest blowhard, Hannity, was still at it. I will anticipate this outcome with glee. The US could earn back some worldwide good will if we were to sue FOX into oblivion.

Alpha Echo · Mar 30, 2020

Chasing the Horizon said:
I really feel for your daughter too. I vividly remember being her age and I'd have viewed being trapped at home with my parents as worse than prison. As much as this is affecting all of us, I have to think it's hurting teenagers worst of all. At that age your friends and lovers are your life. Time also literally is perceived as passing slower at that age, so a teenager spending a week quarantined at home is like me spending months quarantined (I'm almost 33, and I have my husband here with me too). I will point out, though, that her friends probably aren't going anywhere as long as all these restrictions are in place. At least, all the colleges in my state are shut down, and I'm sure they won't be reopening until after the restrictions on groups gathering are lifted.

It's so true, and I remind myself of this whenever her attitude starts to swing out of control. She turns 16 next month and has been looking forward to getting her license in July, but now that's not going to happen because, obviously, she can't do behind the wheel until this is all over. We had planned to bring a few of her girlfriends with us to a cabin in West VA over spring break. We're still going because the homeowner isn't offering a refund, but her friends are not. Her yearly trip with her biomom to Japan in June to visit her grandmother/great-grandmother likely won't happen. Her life has become all about her friends, so this isn't easy. And the uncertainty of school, something that used to be so certain...and of course...if I can't even fully comprehend the impacts of all this, how can she?

I did tell her, if you're not finishing school, neither are they. If you don't go back to school in August, they aren't going either.

Roxxsmom said:
He has now accused health care workers of hoarding ventilators and of stealing masks, because there's no way they could be going through them so fast.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...plies-face-masks-are-being-stolen/ar-BB11SPkR

Again, his utter cluelessness and insensitivity is on display, yet many Americans approve. It's so depressing.

And when this is over, we are going to have a bunch of emotionally damaged, traumatized health care workers. There has to be a huge emotional toll imposed by deciding who gets to live and who gets to die, from working unsistainable (even by medical workers' standards) hours under awful conditions, from the constant fear of becoming infected, and from being unable to save people they should be able to save.

I just saw today that his approval rating has gone up. I just...that depresses me so much. I don't understand how people are so blind to the truth.

Kat M said:
I'm so sorry she (and you) are going through this.

As someone who works with emotional children—I'm guessing she needs to know that her negative emotions are OK. Whether they're big (worried for friends and Grandma, etc.) or seemingly petty (distraught over a cancelled event). And then gentle support not to get stuck in them.

Honestly, we all need that.

Yes. That is true. She's never been overly emotional, but hormones make her extremely emotional. I was and still am very emotional at all times. Sometimes, we just need to hear that it's okay to feel what we're feeling. And I told her that.

ElaineA said:
Much of it is coming from inside the house.

The goalpost shifting they do is monumental. Now he's going to take credit for "only" 100K deaths! And those 100K are all Biden's fault because they left the cupboards bare!

The number of voices amplifying that message is alarming, nauseating, and demoralizing.

Agree 100%. The goalpost shifting is unbelievable. Hilarious almost in its obviousness, yet depressing in that it happens, and their followers keep following.

regdog · Mar 30, 2020

The cupboard wasn't bare from Obama/Biden. It's bare because someone, sent the supplies to China in Feb.

Twitter Link

For those without Twitter. The link goes to Mike Pompeo's twitter page of a plane load of PPEs we sent to China being unloaded.

lizmonster · Mar 30, 2020

I'm trying to avoid the news at this point and focus on what I can change, which is not much. We're trying to look after our kid's mental health, as well as our own. I've spaced grocery runs out 10 days, which probably isn't quite long enough to make sure I haven't picked something up, so that might change. We're extremely lucky to live in a sparsely-populated town, so we can go on walks and encounter almost no one.

I'm trying to keep to a schedule, to keep working. I'm trying to remain forward-looking and optimistic because The Kid needs that. I'm retweeting positive messages from politicians, which includes stuff from both Biden and Sanders. I'm trying to amplify people who are handling things the way they should be handled, who are drawing the conclusions we should be drawing.

We'll get through this one way or another, I know that. The damage will be horrible. It already is. But right now I'm trying to focus on coping, full stop.

Bing Z · Mar 30, 2020

regdog said:
The cupboard wasn't bare from Obama/Biden. It's bare because someone, sent the supplies to China in Feb.

Twitter Link

For those without Twitter. The link goes to Mike Pompeo's twitter page of a plane load of PPEs we sent to China being unloaded.

China's Foreign Ministry denies they have received any coronavirus money or materials from the US. And I kind of believe them, as Trump would have kept gloating about having done so and shouting at China to repay the dues otherwise.

Snitchcat · Mar 30, 2020

regdog said:
The cupboard wasn't bare from Obama/Biden. It's bare because someone, sent the supplies to China in Feb.

Twitter Link

For those without Twitter. The link goes to Mike Pompeo's twitter page of a plane load of PPEs we sent to China being unloaded.

I've seen nothing in the news of this -- English, Traditional Chinese or Simplified Chinese, Cantonese or Mandarin.

ETA:
After a bit of a search, there is news that China did import almost double the PPE volume in Feb 2020, but from where, I didn't see. At the same time, China also held back a lot of its PPE exports because the Mainland needed the equipment. Now, however, it's ramped up production and has been shipping PPE all over the world, which has been using these items, except for the USA, where red tape (FDA certification, regulations & whatnot) has interfered with getting the PPE to front line healthcare workers.

RedRajah · Mar 30, 2020

Cynical question...do we even have proof that these polls aren't being tampered with in some way?

Kjbartolotta · Mar 30, 2020

RedRajah said:
Cynical question...do we even have proof that these polls aren't being tampered with in some way?

I tend to take them as honest, within the caveat that no poll is going to give you a full picture and pollsters need to stop relying on landlines. But IIRC his support from the 'rally around the flag' effect is already plummeting and let's all see how it looks in a week or so.

Roxxsmom · Mar 30, 2020

JJ Litke said:
HEB has a lot more curbside orders available now, but supplies are still low on a lot of things (why the hell are people hoarding goddamn eggs??). .

I don't understand this either. Flour and sugar have been gone at our local stores too, so maybe everyone is baking to stay sane during lockdown?

Evidently oat milk is in great demand too. I've no idea why. I've never drunk it before this, so why would I want to now when regular milk has been available? Why would so many people choose this time to make the switch to non dairy? It's not like pasteurized milk doesn't keep for at least a couple of weeks in the fridge. It must be frustrating for people who are lactose intolerant, or vegan, or have other reasons they can't drink regular milk to see all the milk substitutes disappearing from the shelves.

Kjbartolotta said:
I tend to take them as honest, within the caveat that no poll is going to give you a full picture and pollsters need to stop relying on landlines. But IIRC his support from the 'rally around the flag' effect is already plummeting and let's all see how it looks in a week or so.

I think it's honest. Sitting POTUS's always get a bump when there's a crisis, and many Americans are still more worried about the economy than about the virus, so they probably approve of his statements that the economic downturn is more dangerous. This will likely change once their own hospitals fill up and they start to worry about whether their loved ones, or themselves, can get care if it's needed.

Also, this is a really anemic bump. He's still below 50% in averages of all the polls, and Biden is ahead of him in nearly every polls, most generally by wide margins. It's too early yet to make any calls about what will happen. This is an unprecedented and highly volatile situation, but if I were Trump's people, I'd be concerned. Expect more of the kind of crazy stuff he says when he's feeling unappreciated and backed into a corner.

Oh, and reportedly, he wants his signature to appear on the checks many Americans will be receiving. I guess he wants them to think it was him, and not congress, who came up with the stimulus package. Too bad most people will be getting it direct deposited anyway.

Tazlima · Mar 30, 2020

I bought some almond milk because shelf stable "box milk" isn't available in my usual store (I also don't recall seeing it in other grocery stores around here). If we have problems with electricity, I want to have options.

cornflake · Mar 30, 2020

The oat milk thing is so weird -- why oat?? Among other things, it's a much newer option, so it can't be large numbers of ppl are so used to having their oat milk they need a big backstock. I like oat milk best, honestly, but generally only opt for it if I was in a cafe, and buy almond or cashew because there's no oat I've seen that's not way higher in calories and sugar (I don't do dairy milk). My local was out of my preference, but it's a hippy dippy alternate-milk kind of area so I just presumed it was regular buyers of it stocking up.

The egg thing is also baffling, though I haven't seen it here except for the early rushes before places were officially "on lockdown." I do think people who don't normally bake are baking, or are sitting at home making big breakfasts I guess but I've seen those pics of ppl buying like half carts full of eggs and why? You can freeze them but it's a pita and there are a ton of egg substitutes so...

cornflake · Mar 30, 2020

Tazlima said:
I bought some almond milk because shelf stable "box milk" isn't available in my usual store (I also don't recall seeing it in other grocery stores around here). If we have problems with electricity, I want to have options.

Small psa for anyone doing this or trying boxed almond milk for the first time -- it can, not infrequently, have small chunks when you open it. It's NOT curdling. Almond milk doesn't curdle like dairy milk. In the shelf-stable especially, sometimes when it sits the solids or whatever start to coat the interior of the packaging bottom or side. When you shake it, you shake that loose and it can break into little chunks if it's been sitting a while, instead of mixing in smoothly. It's fine. Not dangerous, not anything.

RedRajah · Mar 30, 2020

A lot of folks are baking in my neck of the woods. No yeast anywhere near me.

MaeZe · Mar 30, 2020

My local news is telling me again that eating food from the local take out is no risk because when you swallow it your stomach acids kill the virus.

THEY DON'T KNOW THAT! Who tested it? If that's true how are we getting infected from droplets hitting our mouths?

I'm not saying not to eat take out. But maybe reheat it in the microwave or something. Get pizza that comes out of the oven and into the box. Something that a person wasn't leaning over it preparing it without a mask on. Or find a take out where they do wear gloves and a mask to make the food.

AW Admin · Mar 30, 2020

RedRajah said:
A lot of folks are baking in my neck of the woods. No yeast anywhere near me.

Sour dough? Amazon has yeast, btw.

regdog · Mar 30, 2020

Bing Z said:
China's Foreign Ministry denies they have received any coronavirus money or materials from the US. And I kind of believe them, as Trump would have kept gloating about having done so and shouting at China to repay the dues otherwise.

Snitchcat said:
I've seen nothing in the news of this -- English, Traditional Chinese or Simplified Chinese, Cantonese or Mandarin.

ETA:
After a bit of a search, there is news that China did import almost double the PPE volume in Feb 2020, but from where, I didn't see. At the same time, China also held back a lot of its PPE exports because the Mainland needed the equipment. Now, however, it's ramped up production and has been shipping PPE all over the world, which has been using these items, except for the USA, where red tape (FDA certification, regulations & whatnot) has interfered with getting the PPE to front line healthcare workers.

Here's the link to the statement by the State Department

Link

Bing Z · Mar 30, 2020

regdog said:
Here's the link to the statement by the State Department

Link

I know about private sector/NGO donations (eg by the Gates Foundation) to China, which apparently the State Department had coordinated. I do not know if the Chinese like Jack Ma or Chinese Red Cross have reciprocated enough.

The ambiguity is about the US government's aid (the 'cupboard' thing that was discussed upthread.) The State Department claimed they were preparing to send up to $100m worth of aid (2/7-20). The China government claimed (3/20) they have never received any. Trump never blasted the China for denying it. So the CUPBOARD thing likely never happened.

On the other hand, Washington Post reported there were 1.5 million expired N95 masks sitting in an Indiana warehouse., and the California Governor claims 170 ventilators sent from Trump administration were 'not working.' I have a feeling these are not the only such incidents, and so government oversight is probably why the cupboard is empty. Whether Obama or Trump should take the blame is another story.

Bing Z · Mar 30, 2020

MaeZe said:
My local news is telling me again that eating food from the local take out is no risk because when you swallow it your stomach acids kill the virus.

THEY DON'T KNOW THAT! Who tested it? If that's true how are we getting infected from droplets hitting our mouths?

I'm not saying not to eat take out. But maybe reheat it in the microwave or something. Get pizza that comes out of the oven and into the box. Something that a person wasn't leaning over it preparing it without a mask on. Or find a take out where they do wear gloves and a mask to make the food.

That is my thinking. No raw food at all, ie, no more salad and goodbye sushi for now. Everything must be cooked. These days I only buy oranges/tangerines/melons for fruit and soak them in soap water (then rinse) before they go into the fridge. I do not care if people calls me paranoid.

regdog · Mar 30, 2020

Given these reports about Obama setting up a panel and his Admin going over pandemic reposne with Trump's incoming Admin. I'd say the fault is Trump's. Obama appeared to have things well in order when he left office.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

One sad thruth of the current Adminstration. Trump is obsessed with undoing everything that Obama did.

Lyv · Mar 30, 2020

Bing Z said:
That is my thinking. No raw food at all, ie, no more salad and goodbye sushi for now. Everything must be cooked. These days I only buy oranges/tangerines/melons for fruit and soak them in soap water (then rinse) before they go into the fridge. I do not care if people calls me paranoid.

The only thing we are thinking of doing is ordering pizza from our beloved go-to pizzeria. If we order a pizza, we can take it out of the box, discard the box, wash our hands, put it in the oven on 500 for five minutes. Something like that. I'm fine if people think it's overkill.

We put sheets up over the windows on our back three-season porch and my husband undresses there, steps inside to the bathroom where he washes his hands, then goes upstairs and straight into the shower. We were just having him take off his jacket and shoes, but we tightened things down a bit (I have almost no immune system) but what harm is an abundance of caution? Life isn't normal. We adapt.

Roxxsmom · Mar 30, 2020

MaeZe said:
My local news is telling me again that eating food from the local take out is no risk because when you swallow it your stomach acids kill the virus.

THEY DON'T KNOW THAT! Who tested it? If that's true how are we getting infected from droplets hitting our mouths?

They don't know that for sure, but when a virus is constructed the way this one is, it's quite likely this is generally true. The lipid layer would not survive stomach acids and digestive enzymes in the majority of people.

Viruses that specialize in an intestinal route of infection, like noro or canine parvovirus, are generally much more sturdy in their construction (and can linger for much longer in the environment too).

More and more experts are saying the evidence is that aerosols are the likeliest source of spread, but droplets may still be a factor too, though the conjunctiva, and possibly nasal mucosa, are likelier routes of entry than the mouth.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/28/8232...dence-on-coronavirus-transmission-through-air

BUT, some people (such as people on proton pump inhibitors) have low stomach acidity. And some people have conditions that reduce the integrity of their intestinal mucosa. They may be at elevated risk for contacting it via an oral route. A certain percentage of people present with gastrointestinal symptoms as well, and it's possible they were infected via an oral route (though that's not a given).

The intestinal tract may have been an alternative source of infection for at least some cases of MERS.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5687858/

I think a certain amount of caution makes sense, but people still have to eat. I clean packages that come into the house still, and if something can't be cleaned and must be opened right away, I open it carefully. People who are immune compromised should probably be extra careful, as it would likely take contact with fewer viral particles to infect them than the norm.

I am especially careful with stuff going into the fridge or freezer, because there is evidence the virus survives longer in cold environments. I'm much more worried about catching it from someone in the grocery store, however, than from the food I bring home. It doesn't help that some people are still ignoring social distancing recommendations. Also, why are stores still so crowded? If we're all limiting our shopping to 1 trip a week or fewer to the grocery store, why are there so many more folks in the store now than normal? I get that people will buy more when they are there, as they appear to be doing (judging by the fact that things are still running out), but why are they returning so often if they've stocked up?

mccardey · Mar 30, 2020

I'm very surprised that they even had to do this, but it seems sensible:

Victoria bans gun sales after applications double

By Anthony Colangelo

People can no longer buy guns or ammunition in Victoria, effective immediately, for the duration of the COVID-19 emergency.
The new regulations to quell the sale of firearms and ammunition in Victoria, which have spiked amid the coronavirus pandemic.
Applications for firearms have doubled recently, police said.
“There is no need to be stockpiling firearms,” Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Shane Patton said.
New laws will restrict the sale of ammunition and guns for recreational and sport shooters.

Those with a clear “occupational” need for firearms can still access guns and ammunition for these purposes.

The Covid-19 virus

People are not wearing enough hats

All about that action, boss.

I should be writing.

The Scavengers

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

illiterate primate

Dragon-kitty.

Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone

Potentially has/is dog

Beastly Fido

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone

The Scavengers

illiterate primate

illiterate primate

The Scavengers

I meant to do that.

Beastly Fido