Vegas Debate

Buttigieg had an excellent night. I'd say he won. The others might have gotten good shots in at times, but each got hit hard as well. Bloomberg did not come across as smooth enough to inspire confidence.

From my perspective, NBC came across as the big loser of the night. They lost control of the room at several points throughout the debate. Maybe it’s time to have these debates go back to the League of Women Voters and away from the major networks having so much sway.

darkprincealain said:

From my perspective, NBC came across as the big loser of the night. They lost control of the room at several points throughout the debate. Maybe it’s time to have these debates go back to the League of Women Voters and away from the major networks having so much sway.

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I agree, though Bloomberg comes in a close second. Was he even prepped? I know he was...the pundits said he was at least. That he claimed he had prepped. But my goodness, he didn't have a way to answer any of the allegations Warren threw at him. It was pathetic. He proved himself a billionaire just trying to buy his way into the highest seat in the land. (Or at least, it used to be before Trump sunk it low).

I think Warren was fantastic. I would love to see her take down Trump. But I'm not sure she can beat him.

I've heard a lot of commentary, well, okay, NPR this morning on podcast, say that Bernie was the clear winner, but I think they may be saying that just because he's still leading in polls. I just don't think he can beat Trump in the general. Even if he's leading among Dems...people are convinced he'll take their money and that socialism = communism. Plus, I don't think he's as quick as Warren or Buttigieg. And you need to be quick against Trump.

I can't believe how much I'm liking Buttigieg. He's articulate, he has that kind of charisma that Obama had (maybe because he's younger?), and he has a more moderate appeal. The tricky thing is his relationship with minorities. He's gotta fix that.

Biden was better, but I've already written him off.

I think I'll still vote for Warren, which is where I was leaning from the beginning. But I believe Buttigieg stands a better chance to win the general, and of course...Bloomberg better not make it to the ticket because I of course will vote blue, but it would make me gag a little to have to vote for him.

That was by far the most entertaining Democratic debate so far.

Biggest winners:
Bernie, Biden, Warren

Biggest losers:
Bloomberg, Mayor Pete, and Amy

Pete looked like a bully and Amy was the victim of the bullying, which is a disqualifier since she'd have to deal with much worse in a debate against Trump.

Bloomberg was using Republican talking points against Bernie. WTF? Get him the !@#$% out of there! Not surprising, though, considering he was a Republican just a few years ago.

Sanders was solid. It's a shame he's so old, but he's still feisty and possibly the only candidate who could put Trump in his place.
Warren was solid as usual and didn't disappoint, but I'm not sure she could beat Trump.
Biden didn't come across as a blithering idiot, which was a win for him. Trump would steamroll all over him in a debate, though. It would be a massacre.

My scores:

Sanders: B attacked a lot but he held up well
Klobuchar B- did OK - didn't hurt herself
Buttigieg C+ very articulate but not much impact
Warren C- does she even know how to smile?
Biden D+ wooden
Bloomberg D- arrogant

Ah, was disappointed in Mike Bloomberg's performance. He held his own at first and got some zingers off, but seemed horribly unprepared for responding to the NDAs and failed to connect in authentic way. He needs to release these people to speak openly and show some humanity, real leadership, not just business savvy. Hope he turns it around in the SC debate on Tuesday.

Warren gave a brilliant performance last night despite dealing with what seemed like a cold or something. I hope her attacks against Bloomberg help her move up in the polls and steal some of Bernie's left wing hype. I'd like to see her go on offense differentiating herself from Bernie. A few times she explained she is a capitalist and Bernie is a socialist, but hasn't exactly owned this position in any of the debates. Make the case for how she will she be much better for economic growth compared to Bernie. I think also she can go on offense about difference between her healthcare plan and Bernie's. She can show how her recent adjustments to her healthcare plan is not a weakness, but stronger, more realistic healthcare solution that can be funded quickly without expecting congress to double or triple federal spending and deficit etc.

IMHO all the candidates should be hitting Bernie harder on his math. Buttigieg is a great speaker and the only one last night who made a bit of effort here, but especially now that Bernie's leading, they all need to be hammering him on this point, show where his plan falls apart.

Gregg said:

Warren C- does she even know how to smile?

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Did you seriously just say that a woman should smile more?

JJ Litke said:

Did you seriously just say that a woman should smile more?

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I assumed it was an intentional, trolling comment. But whaddoIknow, just a lil old woman rattling my pots and pans.

Gender had nothing to do with my comment.
Upon further thought, more of the candidates should smile more.

Maybe it did, Gregg. You grew up in a misogynist society so you have absorbed a lot of misogyny. We all did. Even many women have internalized misogyny. So, maybe instead of a knee-jerk, "I didn't say it because she is a woman," think about why you didn't think it or say it about any male candidate, including the ones who smile a lot less than she does.

And I apply that to myself. For example, I was raised by parents and an older sister who were politically active in the civil rights fight. My parents didn't like that Black history wasn't being taught (I was born in 1961), so I had a whole Black history curriculum at home (I am only now appreciating just how much they did and how it was a constant of my childhood). The only time I didn't get in trouble for talking back to adults was when I would call out my racist uncles for their bigotry. They did the best they could, but we all lived in a white supremacist society, so I don't say any they or any white person isn't racist (and the more I read and learn and do, the more right that feels). I don't even say I am not racist, and I spend time every day reading and actively working to dismantle white supremacy. It's not for me to decide, because I am in the privileged group. We can't always recognize harmful attitudes we've absorbed and not examined.

So maybe you did say it because she's a woman. No harm in recognizing that and trying to do better.

I made a negative comment about several candidates. I was criticized for only one of them. And my positive comment about Klobuchar was ignored. Perhaps that's because Warren is the overwhelming favorite here?
Unlike many on the left I don't play identity politics.

Well, I tried. Figured it was futile, though it still felt worth saying.

Warren is not my candidate, btw.

Gregg said:

I made a negative comment about several candidates. I was criticized for only one of them. And my positive comment about Klobuchar was ignored. Perhaps that's because Warren is the overwhelming favorite here?
Unlike many on the left I don't play identity politics.

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You made comments about other candidates’ debate performance, and that Warren doesn’t smile enough.

“did OK - didn’t hurt herself” is not truly positive—and even if it were, one positive comment doesn’t erase a sexist one.

If you had flipped those and made the comment about Klobuchar, I would still have called you out on it.

Your comment is a great example of identity politics, based on your identity as a man and how you see the value of a woman.

PostHuman said:

Warren gave a brilliant performance last night despite dealing with what seemed like a cold or something. I hope her attacks against Bloomberg help her move up in the polls and steal some of Bernie's left wing hype. I'd like to see her go on offense differentiating herself from Bernie. A few times she explained she is a capitalist and Bernie is a socialist, but hasn't exactly owned this position in any of the debates. Make the case for how she will she be much better for economic growth compared to Bernie. I think also she can go on offense about difference between her healthcare plan and Bernie's. She can show how her recent adjustments to her healthcare plan is not a weakness, but stronger, more realistic healthcare solution that can be funded quickly without expecting congress to double or triple federal spending and deficit etc.

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I'm feeling pretty great about Warren right now, but this has been my constant stumbling point with her.

And because I'm a male you know how I see the value of a woman?

Warren did have a small lead in the national polls last fall, but when she revealed the details of her Medicare-For-All plan she dropped from 26% to about 12%now. Now she's modified her plan. I wonder if it's too little too late.
Bloomberg, Mayor Pete, and Klobuchar increased their numbers as Warren and Biden fell.
Bloomberg did so poorly in the debate it will be interesting to see if his support drops and where it goes.

Warren kicked Bloomberg's tiny little fascist ass all over that stage. It was glorious. Klobuchar and Buttigeg were like squabbling siblings. Sanders is Sanders and I am so tired of his schtick. Biden wasn't bad.

Gregg said:

My scores:

Sanders: B attacked a lot but he held up well
Klobuchar B- did OK - didn't hurt herself
Buttigieg C+ very articulate but not much impact
Warren C- does she even know how to smile?
Biden D+ wooden
Bloomberg D- arrogant

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Really?

cornflake said:

Warren kicked Bloomberg's tiny little fascist ass all over that stage.

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Unfortunately for Warren, there is almost zero overlap in the Venn diagram of Bloomberg supporters and Warren supporters. I'd suggest Bernie's butt is the one she needs to be kicking on that stage, to win back some of his left wing voters. The moderates are competing in an entirely different lane.

Bloomberg was the New Guy. First time on stage. Easy pickin's. Get rid of somebody with next to no poll numbers quickly and deal with everybody else in due time.

BenPanced said:

Bloomberg was the New Guy. First time on stage. Easy pickin's. Get rid of somebody with next to no poll numbers quickly and deal with everybody else in due time.

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And yet he's still getting a huge amount of media coverage.

I've been tracking 4 major papers for the last 4 days. Every day Bloomberg has had the most headlines, often by a large margin.

Bloomberg is advertising a lot on TV here in Wisconsin. Our primary isn't until April. One ad shows Obama praising him - but his comments were made 7 years ago. Are the comments still relevant today?