This series on Youtube was new to me, and very much worth my time to watch.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ
The alt-right playbook
- Thread starter Introversion
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I think it clarifies for me what I've been feeling for awhile about the impeachment hearings. In non-rightwing press reports I read, Republican behaviors are often referred to as "desperate" or silly.
It's not. It's a tactic, which the chapter titled "Never Play Defense" covers very well. The GOP is not debating in these hearings; if they were, they'd be losing. Instead, they're using the same "win on how the lizard-brain perceives things" tactic the alt-right often does. Democrats and Republicans are playing different games, and Democrats may think they're winning.
In a sane world, they would be. But it's not that world. It's a far more emotional, facts-free world, that the alt-right and Tmurp and the modern GOP understand far better how to manipulate.
It doesn't make me feel any better.
But if you don't understand the rules of a game, you've got zero chance of winning it. Progressives need to understand the rules of that game the alt-right (and by this I include Tmurp and the modern GOP, because there's really not much daylight between them any more) is playing, to have any chance of beating them.
I should add that it's not a series that some alt-right nutjob has created. Rather, it's a very insightful series by a progressive who wants to understand how the alt-right argues, why engaging like progressives typically do not only doesn't work but helps the alt-right win, and how to try to beat them with different tactics instead.
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Other than it making a person mad, I'm not sure what you are concerned about.
Here's an example where I recently applied the knowledge, (my opinion of course):
Trump minions are repeating the talking point that Trump was withholding aide to Ukraine in an effort to address corruption in Ukraine.
I said, the Democrats need to start using the talking point, "this wasn't about corruption in Ukraine, that's a lie"
A friend suggested that should be followed by "It was an attempt to corrupt Ukraine."
No!!!!! Don't clutter the message up. No one cares about corruption in Ukraine. Call it out as the lie it is. Don't go into a lengthy explanation about the dishonestly of the GOP. It's a lie, call it a lie. And especially, don't ignore it. By ignoring it the lie becomes the accepted narrative.
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This entire situation is totally bizarre. You have one side using "facts" that are not based on reality. Kellyanne Conway actually called them "alternative facts."
The way to deal with conservatives is to just tell them that their opinions are based on alternative facts and that you're not going to engage with them. Sorry. Go away. If you want to use facts based on reality, sure, I'll talk to you, but that would destroy the foundations of their opinions.
The way to deal with conservatives is to just tell them that their opinions are based on alternative facts and that you're not going to engage with them. Sorry. Go away. If you want to use facts based on reality, sure, I'll talk to you, but that would destroy the foundations of their opinions.
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I'm about halfway through the series now, and it's really interesting.
"We go low, you go high" was an eye opener for me. In a nutshell, it argues that Conservatives care about certain ideas, while liberals (at least the ones in government) care more about an idealized process. This is why the Republicans have a disproportionate amount of power (out of proportion to their actual numbers). The GOP has no interest in the ideals loved by the Democrats, like compromise, due process, Constitutional protections of free speech etc., and they use our own belief in these ideals against us.
For example, the Republican base overwhelmingly wants to overturn Roe v Wade. This an ideal they have that is not reflective of the position of the US public as a whole, nor with judicial precedent (obviously), and it is certainly opposed to what most Democrats want. They also have many other conservative social agendas that terrify most of the people who call themselves liberals, and even many moderates.
So the GOP-controlled Senate, when liberals were dancing in the streets over the thought of finally having what we consider a more reasonable court, told Obama they would not even bother to vote on any nominee he presented. This wasn't how the process is supposed to work, and it had no precedent, but they weren't in direct violation of the Constitution.
Obama tried to do the noble thing, playing by the conventional rules previously established, picking a nice, uncontroversial centrist (a Democratic O' Conner type, perhaps), but no dice. Instead of opting to use an unconventional-but-technically-within-the-Constitution runaround to get his candidate in, he took the moral high ground, even though it will potentially harm real people living real lives for decades to come. He wanted to go down in history as the good guy.
The argument made in the video was that Democrats need to be more focused on their own values and goals rather than always taking the moral high ground when it comes to process, because ultimately the goodness or badness of something lies less in a process than in the actual consequences. It's not terribly comforting to someone shot by police, or dying for want of health care etc. that their POTUS let the GOP have their way because he didn't want to be a jerk back.
It makes me a bit uncomfortable, because it does skate dangerously close to an argument that the ends always justifying means, but it's pretty clear what the Democrats have been doing in recent years is not making America a better, safer place for the people whose rights the Democrats are supposed to be protecting.
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Don't explain. Push back.
How about "This Ukraine thing is the GOP peddling Russian propaganda. Putin is laughing at the US."
And if there is any verbal resistance to this.
"Every US intel agency said the Russians did the hacking, not Ukraine. Only the GOP says otherwise. They're peddling Russian propaganda."
-cb
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That's exactly it. Push back, don't explain, and don't get caught up in justifying yourself.
It's hard, soooo hard, because a general difference between modern liberals and modern conservatives, at least, is that the Left appeals more to intellectual types, and intellectuals love explanations and long, convoluted discussions.
But most people (and not just conservatives by any means) are more likely to agree with statements that sound good and make the person stating them look decisive and witty. This doesn't mean that those "truthier" statements need to be lies instead of actual truth, just that they need to be stated in a concise and punchy way.
Another thing is when the other side moves the goalposts, don't engage with them in their new position, no matter how hard it is to ignore yet another set of hateful, or inaccurate, or unsupportable statements. Keep moving the goalposts back.
It's hard, soooo hard, because a general difference between modern liberals and modern conservatives, at least, is that the Left appeals more to intellectual types, and intellectuals love explanations and long, convoluted discussions.
But most people (and not just conservatives by any means) are more likely to agree with statements that sound good and make the person stating them look decisive and witty. This doesn't mean that those "truthier" statements need to be lies instead of actual truth, just that they need to be stated in a concise and punchy way.
Another thing is when the other side moves the goalposts, don't engage with them in their new position, no matter how hard it is to ignore yet another set of hateful, or inaccurate, or unsupportable statements. Keep moving the goalposts back.
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I assume this is also an example of the alt-right playbook?
New York Times: Trump adviser Peter Navarro invokes his fictional alter-ego to make case for China tariffs
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/politics/peter-navarro-ron-vara-china-tariff-negotiations/index.html
This administration is a C L U S T E R F U C K.
-cb
New York Times: Trump adviser Peter Navarro invokes his fictional alter-ego to make case for China tariffs
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/politics/peter-navarro-ron-vara-china-tariff-negotiations/index.html
This administration is a C L U S T E R F U C K.
-cb
Thank you guys for explaining - it actually helps to know it's from a progressive. I thought it was from a conservative. I will make a point to watch these.
This world is just nuts. Watching these hearings...and listening to the right just yell and shout out lies...proven lies...in words to enrage their base only end up enraging me as well. But the playbook doesn't sound like more of that.
This world is just nuts. Watching these hearings...and listening to the right just yell and shout out lies...proven lies...in words to enrage their base only end up enraging me as well. But the playbook doesn't sound like more of that.
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No, it's actually explaining the method behind all the shouting out of lies, and offers some tips on when and how to engage (and on when it's probably better to walk away).
Lots of interesting insights about general mindsets too and on the origins of modern conservatism and a discussion of how guys (and it is mostly guys) get radicalized by alt right groups online.
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So far, I've listened to the intro and the first video, and I'm taking notes. It definitely seems to pull all the pieces together - pieces I've recognized but not put together in a way that explains exactly WHY the GOP behaves the way they do. It's definitely interesting, and possibly fascinating.
As Roxxsmom said, "You go high, we go low" is a particularly good episode to watch.
Tell me, as a liberal, you don't watch that one and know exactly the frustration the little cartoon Democrat is feeling at the relentless, "ends-justified" hypocrisy the GOP has demonstrated over the past decades? It's good to understand exactly why it's frustrating, and that the GOP knows it is and is happy to exploit our reaction. I often see liberals on social media decrying the right's hypocrisy, as though it's somehow a moral victory to lose but not be hypocrites -- this is exactly what the right counts on.
Tell me, as a liberal, you don't watch that one and know exactly the frustration the little cartoon Democrat is feeling at the relentless, "ends-justified" hypocrisy the GOP has demonstrated over the past decades? It's good to understand exactly why it's frustrating, and that the GOP knows it is and is happy to exploit our reaction. I often see liberals on social media decrying the right's hypocrisy, as though it's somehow a moral victory to lose but not be hypocrites -- this is exactly what the right counts on.
Watched the Never Play Defense video the other day, and I just feel like I watched the boxing happen in real time. Dude on twitter said to another person (eqb on AW), "You have pronouns in your bio, there is no convincing you of anything. Also, #ILaughedAtYouFirst 
Muted." Right there. Pronouns in your bio? Muted.
Muted." Right there. Pronouns in your bio? Muted.