How late/often would you say telegraph offices tended to be open?

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SwallowFeather

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This is a very general "give me a feel" question b/c if anybody even knows this, I doubt they have the specific knowledge I'd need to be certain (i.e. what typical hours were in France, 1944.) Luckily it's not crucial to the plot the way it might sound like it would be, but I'd like to know... Basically I have a character stranded in a city she hadn't intended to stay in, and the people at home will worry, and I wonder how feasible it might be for her to warn them she'll be days late getting home. (BTW there's no active warfare going on in this mid-southern city at this point early in the year, though she is initially stranded b/c the occupation forces stop the trains due to a sabotage action.)

So I just wonder... did telegraph offices operate like post offices, normal business hours & nothing on Sunday? Or did their status as the only real emergency communication option for most people make them extend their hours any?
 

SwallowFeather

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In the south of France long before D-Day? (It's March to be precise.) This is an area under long occupation but not an area currently at war, and in fact it never saw active combat, because the Germans never made it that far in the initial 1940 invasion before the armistice deal was cut and they withdrew from the "unoccupied zone" aka Vichy France.

Do you have a specific reason why the telegraph offices would be destroyed? It would take the Germans wanting to do so deliberately even under non-warfare conditions. This seems possible--or they might reserve them for themselves, I suppose. But I've read of the civilian population sending telegrams sometimes.
 

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Not in France and was born after WWII, but I can tell you that telegraphs were still being sent in the early part of my lifetime. If that's what Al's question was about. If the area is occupied, then there is a question about whether the Germans allowed the French (or any non-Germans) to use it.

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lonestarlibrarian

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In 19th c. British literature, I seem to recall protagonists going to the post office in order to send telegrams, but there are also stand-alone telegraph offices.

For example, with Sherlock Holmes---

He read the telegram aloud.

“Have just had most incredible and grotesque experience. May I consult you?
— “Scott Eccles,
“Post Office, Charing Cross.”

as well as

Finally he drove round to the Charing Cross telegraph office, sent off a message, and then, at last, we made for Baker Street once more.

So that would be two examples of telegrams sent from 19th c. Charing Cross-- one from the post office, one from a telegraph office.

Likewise, from an oral history from a British man (?)---

The first electric telegraph was demonstrated in London in 1837, and by the late 19th century telegraph wires connected thousands of towns and villages across the country – and the telegraph system linked the United Kingdom to the United States and the countries that made up the British Empire and beyond.

This was really revolutionary! Especially when you bear in mind that in the 1840s, it took ten weeks for a message to reach India, and for a reply to be sent back. Thirty years later using the telegraph service, the same message could be sent and the reply received in just 4 minutes. From 1870, when the Post Office took over the new telegraph network, until the service closed in this country over a century later, millions of telegrams were sent using this system.


If you needed to send someone a message, you would go to your local post office or telegraph office and fill in a telegram form. Amberley’s Fred Stanford explains how it was done:


Fred: Once you’d … created your written telegram, the person behind the counter would have counted up how many words you’d used and charged you for those words. It would have then have been sent, either – if it was a larger office – through a pneumatic tube system to the telegraph office, or – if it was a smaller office – it would have either have been telegraphed or telephoned to the nearest telegraph office for transmission to the distant end.


Narrator: In towns and cities, the larger post offices used a pneumatic tube system. The written telegram message was folded up, and fed into a little container. The container was then pushed into a brass tube. When the door to the tube closed, the force from compressed air whizzed the container to the telegraph room in another part of the building, or to a nearby telegraph office.


By the 1920s, the telephone was getting more popular. Few people could afford to have one in their homes, but public payphones were widely available - and, as a result, the popularity of telegrams started to decline. In 1935 the Greetings telegram was successfully introduced to boost the dwindling appeal of the service. During two world wars people came to dread the arrival of a telegram, because it often announced that a loved one was dead or injured.

re: office hours, I see that in the US, in 1945, post offices were open 305 days of the year. Presumably, that's -52 Sundays, plus -howevermany other holiday closures.

But I don't know about wartime France. I'll see what I can bump into.
 

angeliz2k

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I don't know much about Vichy France and telegraph office hours, but here's a thought: unless it's a governmental post office (in which case they would presumably have prescribed hours), the hours of a privately owned telegraph office (even one that might be requisitioned from time to time for official business) would be dependent on the owner. You might run into a situation in that case where the owner can be convinced (or not) to open the office at odd hours.
 

lonestarlibrarian

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There's also the question about disruptions of what's normal--- were the Germans in the habit of cutting the telegraph lines in occupied territory?

For example, in 1945 China---

Telegraph services have greatly facilitated military operations. in the course of eight years of war there have been many instances of resumption of telegraphic connections with recaptured cities within a few days after the enemy had been driven out. In June, 1945, there were in operation under the Directorate-General of Tele-Communications 25 signal corps, and 25 line-repairing engineering corps at the various war fronts.

From the same source, it looks like (a) radio is a supplementary instrument to telegraph, especially with ordinary private communication; and (b) in some places, there are temporary circuits; (c) telephone service is slower to be repaired than telegraph services; (d) radio facsimile services already existed in some places as of 1943 [at massively expensive prices]; and (e) in major cities, there might be something similar to---

Up to the end of 1944 the main center for international radio traffic had been located in Chengtu. The Ministry of Communications set up a special speed automatic duplex system wire between Chungking and Chengtu. This instalment furnishes Chungking with sufficiently powerful equipment for direct contact with the outside world. A 24-hour service between Chengtu and R.C.A. and Mackay stations at San Francisco and an 18-hour or even longer daily service between Chengtu and London have been maintained by the Chengtu station which is especially equipped for long-distance transmission.

So, it seems that not all offices have the same hours--- and there's a difference between short-distance and long-distance circuits.
 

Al X.

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In the south of France long before D-Day? (It's March to be precise.) This is an area under long occupation but not an area currently at war, and in fact it never saw active combat, because the Germans never made it that far in the initial 1940 invasion before the armistice deal was cut and they withdrew from the "unoccupied zone" aka Vichy France.

Do you have a specific reason why the telegraph offices would be destroyed? It would take the Germans wanting to do so deliberately even under non-warfare conditions. This seems possible--or they might reserve them for themselves, I suppose. But I've read of the civilian population sending telegrams sometimes.

I'm just saying that by 1944, telegrams were going by the wayside. I know Western Union remained operational until the mid 2000's, but doubt the "telegraphs" they handled went through the original network.
 

lonestarlibrarian

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Interestingly, I came across a Smithsonian article about Belgium's last telegram being sent in 2017.

The electric telegraph kick-started the world-changing electric communication age, which ultimately led to the telephone, satellite communication, email, even, arguably, the poop emoji. Now, after 171 years, that venerable old system is coming to an end in Belgium. Proximus, the state-owned company running Belgium's last telegram service, cuts the line tomorrow, reports James Crisp of, appropriately enough, The Telegraph.
The reason has to do with traffic. In the first 11 months of 2017, only 8,000 telegrams were sent, most by ten regular business users and a smattering of residential customers, according to a press release from Proximus. Once upon a time, telegraphs were the best way to communicate news—good and bad—quickly across great distances. Today, the medium's remaining users mostly consist of lawyers or bailiffs who require legal proof of a message's receipt. To give you an idea of how steep the decline has been in the last few decades, Proximus explains that in the early 1980s, it sent about 1.5 million telegrams per year. By 2010, that number had dropped to about 50,000.

The end of Belgian telegrams isn’t the end of the service across the world, but it’s getting close. Britain ditched telegrams in 1982, the United States sent its last in 2006 and India, which long-relied on telegrams for internal government communications, tossed its last message in the bin in 2013.


So if Belgians were sending 1.5M telegrams/year as late as the 80's, perhaps their habits were different than our habits? So would the French have had more in common with the Belgians, or with the British/Americans?

There's a table of US telegraph traffic-- let me see if the formatting will stay intact--

Table 1: Messages Handled by the Telegraph Network: 1870-1970
DateMessages HandledDateMessages Handled
18709,158,0001930211,971,000
188029,216,0001940191,645,000
189055,879,0001945236,169,000
190063,168,0001950178,904,000
191075,135,0001960124,319,000
1920155,884,000197069,679,000
Source: Historical Statistics.
Notes: Western Union messages 1870-1910; all telegraph companies, 1920-1970.
 

SwallowFeather

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Wow, thank you all very much for your insights & information. Sorry I've let this thread lie a bit--I do see this, and I really do appreciate it.
 
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