U.S. public impeachment hearings

MaeZe

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Trump commits witness intimidation in real time on twitter during witness testimony:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/wi...mp-moments-after-he-launches-twitter-attacks/

18 U.S.C. § 1512 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant
(b)  Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to--

(1)  influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;

(2)  cause or induce any person to--

(A)  withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;

(B)  alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;

(C)  evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding;  or

(D)  be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process;  or...

18 U.S.C. § 1513 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 1513. Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant
 

MaeZe

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...
The president's real-time smearing of the former ambassador is despicable, and quite expected. It's the way he runs, and no one at this time is surprised.
He can't help himself. He truly can't because of his pathologic personality disorder.

Notice also this witness is a female, whereas yesterday he claimed he didn't watch.
 

Introversion

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LOL, Devin Nunes (R) just "lamented" at how low the ratings of the impeachment proceedings must be by now. I think that may be the most inane, clownish thing uttered in these proceedings thus far.

20-30 years ago, I think the weakness of the Republican "arguments" and questioning would be noticed by the public. Today, the way that media is segmented and the way that voters often occupy entirely disjoint news bubbles, I don't know. The Republicans are clearly playing to their bubbles. Will that work for them?
 

shakeysix

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"the deadly combination of ignorance and arrogance" Professor Eddie Glaude Jr.
Time for us thinkers to peel off the ignorant, uninformed and arrogant. They will never abandon Fearless Leader. The Democrats need to lay down their cards and see what the Republican thinkers (they are not all thumping, hollering fools) have in their hands. These are exciting times, fraught with danger for our democracy, and, as an old master debater (nyuck, nyuck) I have seen cool heads and solid facts prevail over the howlers and thumpers more times than not. --s6
 
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MaeZe

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LOL, Devin Nunes (R) just "lamented" at how low the ratings of the impeachment proceedings must be by now. I think that may be the most inane, clownish thing uttered in these proceedings thus far.

20-30 years ago, I think the weakness of the Republican "arguments" and questioning would be noticed by the public. Today, the way that media is segmented and the way that voters often occupy entirely disjoint news bubbles, I don't know. The Republicans are clearly playing to their bubbles. Will that work for them?
Don't be so sure. There are cracks in the wall.

Some of the Republicans in today's hearing praised the ambassador before starting their questioning. Only some tried to make her look bad. For the most part, they failed.

And following this Trump Tweet:
Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went turned bad. She started off in Somalia, how did that go? Then fast forward to Ukraine, where the new Ukrainian President spoke unfavorably about her in my second phone call with him. It is a U.S. President’s absolute right to appoint ambassadors.
There are 4 pro-Trump replies in the first 100. I don't look at his Tweets very often so I don't know what's usual.

There was a new thing that came out today I expect to grow in the next few weeks. There's a good chance Rudi and Trump were getting millions in kick backs. I'll have to go over the transcript to look more closely at it and quote the specifics.
 

kikazaru

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He can't help himself. He truly can't because of his pathologic personality disorder.

Notice also this witness is a female, whereas yesterday he claimed he didn't watch.

I said this very thing as well. He ALWAYS goes after women.
 

Lyv

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Impeachment Public Hearings Week 2 — Who Is Testifying And What Happens Next

Who is testifying?

Tuesday, first panel at 9 a.m. ET


Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the top Ukraine specialist on the National Security Council. Vindman listened to the July 25 telephone conversation in the White House Situation Room and reported his concerns about the president's mention of political investigations to the top NSC attorney, John Eisenberg. He said the attorney decided to move the record of the call onto a highly classified system that few could access.

Jennifer Williams, a foreign service aide detailed to Vice President Pence's office who listened in on the July 25 call between Trump and Zelenskiy.


Tuesday, second panel at 2:30 p.m. ET


Kurt Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine, who along with Sondland and Energy Secretary Rick Perry was part of the "three amigos" tasked by the president to handle Ukraine policy. He was on the list of witnesses requested to appear by Republican members of the Intelligence Committee.
Tim Morrison, the former National Security Council aide who heard the July 25 call but in closed-door testimony told the committees conducting the impeachment inquiry that he didn't view the president's actions as illegal or inappropriate. Republicans say his testimony supports the president's position that there was nothing improper about the July 25 call, and they included him on a list of witnesses they asked the Intelligence Committee chairman, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., to call.

Wednesday, first panel at 9 a.m. ET


Gordon Sondland. Once a top donor to the president's inaugural committee, Sondland has faced intense scrutiny about his closed-door testimony after he sent the committee a three-page amendment reversing his initial account. In that addendum, Sondland said he personally told a top aide to Zelenskiy that the release of U.S. aid to Ukraine was linked to investigations.
Wednesday, second panel at 2:30 p.m. ET


Laura Cooper, a deputy assistant secretary at the Defense Department, who in closed-door testimony said that Ukrainians raised the administration's delay of $391 million in security assistance in August. She said that she spoke to Volker about the issue and that he told her he was working with Ukrainians to make a statement disavowing election interference.
David Hale, the undersecretary of state for political affairs at the State Department. He testified behind closed doors on Nov. 6, and Republicans asked for him to appear in the public hearings.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/18/7793...eek-2-who-is-testifying-and-what-happens-next


Fiona Hill, formerly the top Russia specialist on the National Security Council, testified last month that she registered concerns about the parallel foreign policy channel that Giuliani was using to impact policy in Ukraine. She told investigators that she discussed her concerns with then-National Security Adviser John Bolton, who said that Giuliani was "a hand grenade that is going to blow everybody up."

[Bold added for clarity]

At the link, there is a great deal more information about the process, and links to the testimony by some of those appearing.
 

Introversion

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Sondland’s got some ‘splainin’ to do. He’s already amended his testimony once, after being caught in a lie about quid-pro-quo’ing, but recent testimonies make it clear that he’s told other lies as well. Or perhaps he prefers sharing a cell with Roger Stone?
 

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Today's public hearing will interview Jennifer Williams (Veep Pence aid) and Alexander Vindman (National Security Council official).

Adam Schiff is speaking now, laying out the facts as known thus far.
 

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We seem to be witnessing two entirely disjoint lines of questioning today. Republicans are focused on making the President seem to be a concerned anti-corruption fighter, who's just looking into credible allegations that the Bidens were corruptly involved in the Ukraine.

This is so at odds with the apparent reality of what Trump was attempting to do, with the very (in my opinion) credible testimony from multiple witnesses thus far, that Trump was pursuing discredited allegations about Ukraine and the Bidens, for personal political gain. It's even more at odds with Trump's history, who has never, ever evinced any concern for corruption. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It's quite a surreal experience to listen to.
 
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Diana Hignutt

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Also, Nunes was clearly trying to get Vindman to out the whistle-blower. They're not even hiding it. The fate of the Republic is in the balance.
 

ElaineA

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The Republican members of that committee have no shame. They sat silent when their "Commander in Chief" pardoned 2 convicted war criminals, yet they have the audacity to go after Lt. Col. Vindman. The duplicity is honestly stunning.
 

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I gave up trying to listen to this afternoon's testimony several minutes into Devin Nunes' opening statement, Sorry, but my bullshit meter pegged at his characterization of the impeachment hearings as a "circus" and an "attempt to overthrow" the president. If it's a circus, it's because Republicans keep bringing monkeys.

I'll read the press summaries later to see what was said.
 

Roxxsmom

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I gave up trying to listen to this afternoon's testimony several minutes into Devin Nunes' opening statement, Sorry, but my bullshit meter pegged at his characterization of the impeachment hearings as a "circus" and an "attempt to overthrow" the president. If it's a circus, it's because Republicans keep bringing monkeys.

I'll read the press summaries later to see what was said.

I'm sickened by Devin Nunez's digression into how the POTUS was chosen by the American people, giving a summary of the number of people who voted for him (without mentioning the larger number who voted for his opponent), and claiming he won by an electoral landslide (really?), as if any of that has bearing on whether or not he attempted to bribe the Ukrainian President.

Also I am getting sick of GOP flunkies who keep saying the POTUS did wrong, maybe, but he can't be impeached unless he is guilty of "high crimes and misdemeanors." Quite aside from the open-endedness of what can be considered a high crime (any abuse of office by a government official could be categorized as such), it's interesting how they never enumerate the entire list of impeachable offenses, which includes treason and bribery.
 
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CWatts

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I gave up trying to listen to this afternoon's testimony several minutes into Devin Nunes' opening statement, Sorry, but my bullshit meter pegged at his characterization of the impeachment hearings as a "circus" and an "attempt to overthrow" the president. If it's a circus, it's because Republicans keep bringing monkeys.

I'll read the press summaries later to see what was said.

More like they brought clowns and elephant sh!t.
 

Auteur

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It's truly sickening that so many people in our country are more loyal to their leaders than they are to our Constitution. That's the antithesis of what our Founding Fathers envisioned for our country. We have a republic--not a monarchy.
 

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It's truly sickening that so many people in our country are more loyal to their leaders than they are to our Constitution. That's the antithesis of what our Founding Fathers envisioned for our country. We have a republic--not a monarchy.

I doubt their loyalty to Trump is to him as a person. I'm guessing that many of them harbor private contempt for the man, who possesses the intelligence and social graces of a slime mold. It's because they oh-so-badly want the things he can do for them, and it appears he is willing to deliver on what the far right wants in terms of fiscal policy and court appointments (too bad about that alienating our allies thing). If they can just hold onto the Oval Office for one more term, they can stack the courts so high with social and fiscal conservatives that the continued social primacy of white, (arguably) Christian, wealthy, straight males will be guaranteed for at least another generation.

No price is too high for holding on to the social and economic privileges they've always assumed were God-given rights.

They're also intimidated by their electorate (never mind the GOP has been shaping their hatred of social progress and of the public sector for decades). These people Trump precisely for the reasons most Americans find him so repulsive and terrifying. Paul Ryan is now being booed by his former electorate because he had the audacity to speak against Trump (which he only had the guts to do after decided to leave public office, please note). Anti-Trump Republicans have no chance of winning their primaries.
 
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Unimportant

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Yep: as I see it, it's not loyalty. It's that they're morally bankrupt and don't care what they do or who they have to support, as long it keeps them in power.
 

MaeZe

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Don't forget a lot of these people actually believe their false narratives.

Deep State.
They've been after Trump since he was elected.
The Mueller Report found nothing.
Steele, Clinton, the DNC and Ukraine were really responsible for the interference in the 2016 election.

There are many more like:

Brown immigrants and Muslims are criminals and terrorists.
Trump isn't a con man.
 
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MaeZe

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Gym* Jordan is quite the dramatic character, fictional lines and all.


*Gym as a reminder for those of you who aren't aware, witnesses have said Jordan knew about sexual abuse and did nothing when he was a coach.

Salon: Jim Jordan denies claim that sexual abuse allegation at Ohio State was reported to him
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, dismissed a new claim that an allegation of sexual abuse against Dr. Richard Strauss had been reported to him when the two men were employed at Ohio State University as “ridiculous.” ...

... adamantly denied to Ohio media outlet Lima News that he had any knowledge of the allegations against Strauss at the time.

... The unnamed referee filed a lawsuit Thursday in Columbus, Ohio, which alleged that when he had informed Jordan — then an assistant wrestling coach at the university — and wrestling head coach Russ Hellickson that Strauss had masturbated in front of him, the two men replied by saying: “Yeah, that’s Strauss.” ...

Since Jordan left Ohio State University, many of the former wrestlers at the school have come forward to accuse Strauss of sexual abuse. An Ohio State University report last year found that he committed at least 1,429 sexual assaults and 47 rapes on student patients during his career at the school. Strauss committed suicide in 2005.

The referee is the second person to claim that he directly reported Strauss’s behavior to Jordan, with the first being a former wrestler at the school.

What a tragedy.
 
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