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My betas don't agree on anything!

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starrystorm

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First off, if this is the wrong place, feel free to move it.

Anyway. Now that I've gotten feedback from my three betas, I realize how incredibly different they are.

Beta A: Read the first half and was very confused on what was happening.
Beat B: Read the first 4 chapters. Said the plot was clear.
Beta C: (Who later became my alpha beta) read the whole thing and only pointed out two confusing spots.


Now I'm working with comparing A and C, but for literally everything A said didn't work (dual POV, characters didn't sound the right gender, ect), C said the exact opposite (the dual POV was necessary, they sounded the right gender.) Even the spots C picked out that were confusing, A didn't mark.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I want to keep editing before I send out to my editor (who likes to keep track of the story line and characters). The question is...what do I edit? Should I let my Mom read through it real quick and mark anything confusing? I don't know...
 

Siri Kirpal

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Short answer: Go with your gut. What makes sense to you at a visceral level? And also, what makes sense for the book?

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Woollybear

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Have you posted the first 1000-2000 words in SYW?
 

JohnLine

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Have you done a beta-swap? Sometimes it's better to get feedback from fellow writers, especially if they write in the same genre.
 

talktidy

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Beta A appears to be the outlier. The other two do not seem to share A's confusion.

Echoing what Patty said above - have you posted in SYW?

I think I would also try to find another few beta readers, although that may be easier said than done.
 

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My guess is that they're all right, and that they're all wrong. That's normal :D

Consider the experience of each person as a beta reader. Consider their reading preferences and knowledge of the genre. Consider their critiquing style. And contradictions like "too much description" versus "not enough description" probably means "not describing the right things" (speaking from personal experience -- one telling detail can be worth a page of scene-setting).
 

Roxxsmom

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You have a few choices here.

1. Find yet another reader to (hopefully) serve as a sort of tiebreaker.

2. Think long and hard about which reader is most likely to reflect your target audience for this book. Some issues, like the number of viewpoint characters used, narrative viewpoint in general, voice, pacing etc. can reflect genre or stylistic norms not every reader is equally familiar with.

3. As others said up thread, you could just go with your gut. You know what you're trying to do and who your literary role models are, so to speak, and after you get that reality check and learn that you're readers aren't unanimous about something, it may really be a matter of personal taste.
 
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starrystorm

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Thanks. And yes, I have put my story The Door in My Hand up on SYW and have gotten such good replies I have closed it. I'll have to go back and re-read that to see if initially anyone thought it was confusing.
 

cool pop

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This is one of many reasons why I don't use beta readers. I believe in the "Too many cooks in the kitchen" philosophy.
 
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Putputt

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A couple of things to consider:

1. Do all your betas read the genre you write in? I have a brilliant beta reader who I trust 100%, but when I sent her my YA contemp romance, she HATED it. But after sending to more betas, I realized that my trusted reader just doesn't read the genre, so I ended up not following her suggestions for that book. (She also told me in her notes that it might just be that it's a new genre for her, and to take her suggestions with a lot of salt.) But in all other cases, I absolutely listen to her. She just wasn't a good fit for that particular MS.

2. Are all your betas equally well-read? Not all betas are created equal. Some are less critical than others, some are more willing to point out flaws while others may be more reticent.

Hope this helps! I'm a beta ho, so I'm on the side of "It can't hurt to get more eyes on it", but it's all about you and how confident you feel with the MS!
 

starrystorm

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A couple of things to consider:

1. Do all your betas read the genre you write in? I have a brilliant beta reader who I trust 100%, but when I sent her my YA contemp romance, she HATED it. But after sending to more betas, I realized that my trusted reader just doesn't read the genre, so I ended up not following her suggestions for that book. (She also told me in her notes that it might just be that it's a new genre for her, and to take her suggestions with a lot of salt.) But in all other cases, I absolutely listen to her. She just wasn't a good fit for that particular MS.

2. Are all your betas equally well-read? Not all betas are created equal. Some are less critical than others, some are more willing to point out flaws while others may be more reticent.

Hope this helps! I'm a beta ho, so I'm on the side of "It can't hurt to get more eyes on it", but it's all about you and how confident you feel with the MS!

Yes and yes, unfortunately.
 

starrystorm

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Okay, so I just went though Beta A's notes. Most of her comments were on grammar, so I fixed all of those. I highlighted a few parts where she was confused to see what the other beta said. Now to go back and see what Beta C said.
 

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I hope they would give a more detail review.

If they can explain their review and give more information about what they think the problems are, will be helpful.

Now you can try and ask them more detail question about what they think and why they think that way. you obviously don't have to accept every thing that they say, but it is a good way to learn and improve.

If a beta-reader just say that every thing is great, there is no way to learn and improve.
 

Horserider

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If you trust your mom to give legitimate feedback, she’s well-read in your genre, and you know she’s capable of reading with a critical eye, by all means ask your mom to read it. But if any one of those things isn’t true, it’s better not to ask family to read your book unless it’s just for fun.


In general, a good rule of thumb is that if feedback resonates with you, run with it. If it doesn’t, it’s okay to just file it away. If you’re unsure, look for patterns. Look for another beta reader and see if their feedback overlaps anywhere with A, B, or C.


You mention that A and B both read different sections of the book. How much more did A read than B? Were most of the problem areas in chapters that B didn’t get to? Why was A confused on what was happening? Was there too much worldbuilding? Not enough clarification? Not enough differentiate between the dual points of view?


I know you said that all of your beta readers are experienced in your genre, but what about going a little deeper than that. How does A feel about dual points of view in general? There are plenty of readers who don’t like dual POV in any genre.


It’s okay to ask them more questions for clarification. If you didn’t get specific notes from A, ask them to give you more detail. I’d really be curious to know why they don’t feel like characters sounded “the right gender.” What are their expectations for that gender? You can also reach out to C and ask their thoughts on some of the things that A said, to see if they can shed any light on it.
 

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I would echo the advice to listen to your gut. Usually if someone is critiquing something, and I know what they're pointing out has merit, I get that nagging feeling in my gut, even if it's an outlier opinion. So I would go through each comment and examine what they're saying. Does it feel like something your gut tells you would make the manuscript stronger, or does it feel like one of those comments where "okay, cool, that's their reaction but I think the manuscript is stronger as is" and you move on and use other pieces of feedback they've given you instead.
 

kujo_jotaro

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First off, if this is the wrong place, feel free to move it.

Anyway. Now that I've gotten feedback from my three betas, I realize how incredibly different they are.

Beta A: Read the first half and was very confused on what was happening.
Beat B: Read the first 4 chapters. Said the plot was clear.
Beta C: (Who later became my alpha beta) read the whole thing and only pointed out two confusing spots.


Now I'm working with comparing A and C, but for literally everything A said didn't work (dual POV, characters didn't sound the right gender, ect), C said the exact opposite (the dual POV was necessary, they sounded the right gender.) Even the spots C picked out that were confusing, A didn't mark.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I want to keep editing before I send out to my editor (who likes to keep track of the story line and characters). The question is...what do I edit? Should I let my Mom read through it real quick and mark anything confusing? I don't know...

Do you know anything about your Beta reader's backgrounds? Eg, age, interests? It might make sense to consider which of them is closer to your target audience. Just my two cents.
 

benjj

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It's only normal that not all Beta Readers, like people in general, will share your views and tastes. I'd be willing to bet the number is close to fifty percent that will be different. With that in mind, follow your gut because it's your story so make it true to yourself and then own it!

Keep at it!
 
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Elfriede

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Oh MAN have I had this issue. A good 90% of readers said they loved the prosaic style I work with. And then this one reader came along and absolutely tore my style to shreds. She even asked if I'd even edited certain parts!

It totally ruined my confidence for a few hours. Then, as I was complaining about it to my other reader, she told me something that helped me. She told me to read the 1* reviews of my favourite novel of all time, Blood Meridian. There were people questioning whether Cormac even knew how to write in basic English. And that strangeness really helped me come to terms with the fact that sometimes I can't please everyone and that even betareader's say stuff that should just not be listened to.
 

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Everybody reading a book comes in with their own preferences, knowledge, and reading comprehension. That includes betas, agents, editors, and readers. They also come in with their own way of expressing those those things.

Sometimes when a beta doesn't seem to agree with others, it's just their own preferences. Others may have that same preference, but that doesn't necessarily mean you need to fix it because other people have other preferences. For example, out of a few beta readers, one may prefer that world-building is done right up front, while others might prefer the world-building woven into the story. That one beta might say, "You should describe the world up front, maybe in a prologue," and that might be what they would like, and even what (maybe) some agents, editors, or readers might like, but there are plenty of readers who won't like it and neither do you, so you'd avoid that advice.

However, sometimes when a beta doesn't seem to agree with others, it's because of the way they're expressing their critique. They may actually agree with some of the others, but they are so frustrated over a certain aspect that they're telling you to change more about it, while others might take a different route to explain their critique. Sticking with world-building, you might have 3 betas who have different levels of confusion (like the OP). The first completely understands what's going on (maybe they have similar thinking processes as the author or have read something with a similar world or know to excuse temporary bits of confusion with the expectation that the explanation will come, which it does). The second points out specific spots where they are confused. The third expresses their frustration that the world-building is confusing. The third might find exactly the same spots confusing as number 2, but to them it's ruining their enjoyment of the story and seems to be a "world-building" problem. They both might have the exact same questions as the first, even, but the first is more willing to wait for the explanation and is satisfied when it comes.

As the author, it's our job to figure out which situation we're being faced with and what to do about it. In the end, you don't have to make any change that doesn't feel right to you, but it's important to consider each beta's thoughts in comparison to each other, as well as on their own. And watch out for that knee-jerk reaction to any given critique. Sometimes you figure out later what's really behind it and what seems wrong at first has solid foundation beneath it.
 

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James MacDonald (he of Yog's Law) once said to me: "If a beta reader says something is wrong, they're usually right. If a beta reader tells you how to fix what's wrong, they're usually wrong."

James is pretty much always right. :D
 
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