Who Watches the Watchmen?

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
So, like pretty much everybody, I groaned when I heard there was going to be a Watchmen sequel series. I mean, is that really necessary? They already messed it up in the comics with that Doomsday Clock nonsense, the movie was not good, and how in the world can somebody who's not Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons create something that truly lives up to the original comic series?

Well, all valid concerns, but I'm digging it so far. There are some places where the show feels a little thirsty to call back to everything in the comic, but overall I'm excited with the direction they're taking and the amount of care and respect that's gone into it. The setting is...rather interesting, Redford's America in an uneasy vaguely gloomy place and I'm just not sure where they're going with it, but I'm fascinated. The cast is amazing; Regina King, Louis Gossett Jr, Tim Blake Nelson, Jean Smart, and Don Johnson. Plus Jeremy Irons...hol-lee crap. And the tons of narrative devices and mysteries the show keeps throwing out are so far fascinating and satisfying, without getting too Lost-y or formless.

Interested to see where it goes. So far, the only issue I see is accessiblility, to catch everything you need to know the comics fairly well.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,535
Reaction score
24,104
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
I read Watchmen years ago, and I don't remember nearly enough to be getting everything. But wow, this is a fun watch. The performances are sooooooo good so far, and the script has been amazing. I don't have a huge amount of faith it'll stick any kind of a landing, but if the journey is fun I'm not sure I care.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
Yeah, it's fun! There's a pervasive sense of doomy-ness and fatalism to everything, but I appreciate the way the show avoids being excessively grimdark (why I peaced out on The Boys). There's texture, nuance, and humanity, plus the takeaway from the show is shaping up to be more complicated than just 'people are bastards'.

It's hard to overstate how intensely entertain Jeremy Irons is (does he know he's on a tv show, or are these just screen tests from his normal day?), but Regina King is undoubtedly the standout. Also loving Jean Smart, who between this and Legion seems to have a thing for weird postmodern superhero shows. Excited to see where is goes, and, yeah, there's a lot of room to still mess it up, but in three episodes they've bought a lot of credibility with me so the remaining episodes would have to be a fairly epic suckfail to lose my attention at this point.

Who woulda thunk?
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
She was great on the second season of Fargo also, having a bit of a renaissance these last few years.
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
Speaking as someone who only read the graphic novel recently (saw the movie, though), I find the series interesting so far. It's easy on the eyes, the acting is excellent, and the backstories are good. But...it's overly confusing, imo. New plotlines are being opened up constantly; I feel like I'm watching an extended prologue to a movie with no idea when the actual movie is going to start. But I'll keep watching.
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
But...it's overly confusing, imo. New plotlines are being opened up constantly; I feel like I'm watching an extended prologue to a movie with no idea when the actual movie is going to start. But I'll keep watching.

Me too, and I'm very aware that the showrunner for this is the creator of "Lost", which was a compelling watch on its first season, but rapidly ran nowhere in truly frustrating fashion.

So, yeah, interesting but needs to start knitting together its plot threads or I'm going to lose interest.
 

MythMonger

Willing to Learn
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
1,486
Reaction score
507
Location
Raleigh NC
Me too, and I'm very aware that the showrunner for this is the creator of "Lost", which was a compelling watch on its first season, but rapidly ran nowhere in truly frustrating fashion.

So, yeah, interesting but needs to start knitting together its plot threads or I'm going to lose interest.

No shocker it's from the creator of Lost. The squids falling from the sky had a definite "why is there a polar bear in the jungle?" type of vibe to it.

To anyone: any idea on whether this is from the graphic novel's or the movie's alternate history?
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
No shocker it's from the creator of Lost. The squids falling from the sky had a definite "why is there a polar bear in the jungle?" type of vibe to it.

To anyone: any idea on whether this is from the graphic novel's or the movie's alternate history?

Frequent squidfall wasn’t from the graphic novel, IIRC, but One Giant “Alien” Squid suddenly crashing to earth was, near the end of it. So I think the series is echoing that event?
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
Yeah, quite clearly the show is being spun using the graphic novel as primary source material, not the movie. I saw--on a reddit thread, I think--where Sister Night echoes the original name for Hooded Justice: Brother Night.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
Me too, and I'm very aware that the showrunner for this is the creator of "Lost", which was a compelling watch on its first season, but rapidly ran nowhere in truly frustrating fashion.

Which is why I'm glad it's only one season. Not a Lost fan, I do think Lindelof's doing better about revealing mysteries but that's not hard. On a sidenote, I'm currently theorizing whatever fell to earth at the beginning of last episode is either Dr. M, Bien, or both.
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
I thought this last episode--centering on Looking Glass--was quite excellent. Yet at the same time, it was almost like a separate thing, a side tale as it were. I'm still watching, but I just don't know...
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
I like to hope that it's starting to bend the plot arcs in a way that converge soon... It's halfway done, after all. :tongue
 

telford

We learn by doing
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
1,162
Reaction score
280
Location
Australia
I'm hanging in there, just. It has its moments buy needs to be more coherent. I'll see how I go with it.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
I feel like the show is spending too long padding out its middle and is going to have to rush the wrap-up, but that last episode leveraged the show's willingness to play against expectations (and even frustrate the viewer a bit with the genre shift) into something truly impressive, so I'm happy to go with the show where it takes me and chock up a rushed conclusions to the fact that HBO didn't give them 12 episodes like they should have.

(congratulates self for being able to write a run-on sentence with three clauses and a parenthetical)
 
Last edited:

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
Yeah, they've used 2/3 of their episode budget now, so I'm having hard time seeing how it'll either wrap in a satisfying conclusion, or won't end in a cliffhanger for another season. Was entertaining last night, but, yeah.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
Seems crazy, but I'm not ruling out cliffhanger and 2nd season at this point. I think that most of the pieces are in place tho, we know the Kavalry and Trieu both have evul plans that are competing with each other, the show-defining mystery is now out in the open, and we'll know what the deal with Veidt is soon. All that's really left to bring in is a certain blue guy and his cerulean dong and see how it all poopstorms together.

But I hear you, there's the same feeling I have with Legion where the showrunners are trying to jam everything I like together in a way that leaves me both overglutted and unsatisfied. We shall see.
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
The last episode--"A God Walks Into a Bar"--was terribly weak, imo. How Dr. Manhattan experiences time is a tough thing to handle, to be sure, but how it was handled just wasn't good. The Judd angle makes zero sense, really. He's too smart to agree to ask the question. Ditto for the moment he falls in love with Angela. Really, it's ridiculous imo. And it simply belies the imagination that his first move--in the final scene--wouldn't be to destroy the tachyon cannon.

I'll watch the finale, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be unhappy with it...
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,535
Reaction score
24,104
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
The last episode--"A God Walks Into a Bar"--was terribly weak, imo. How Dr. Manhattan experiences time is a tough thing to handle, to be sure, but how it was handled just wasn't good. The Judd angle makes zero sense, really. He's too smart to agree to ask the question. Ditto for the moment he falls in love with Angela. Really, it's ridiculous imo. And it simply belies the imagination that his first move--in the final scene--wouldn't be to destroy the tachyon cannon.

I actually liked the way they did this. It's very much true to the comic, as I remember it. Half the time - yeah, you did want to choke Dr. Manhattan, because dammit, he knows what's going to happen; why doesn't he stop it? I thought the show made him maddening in just the right way. Biggest problem was wondering why in the world Angela would fall for him. Which brings me to the other reaction I had to the episode:

We've had all these powerful, kick-ass women centered in the narrative, and it turns out they're all revolving around rescuing some guy who wasn't even an active character in the story until last week? Seriously??

I'll watch the finale, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be unhappy with it...

Same. I kind of hate myself for being riveted by this show.
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
I can get behind Dr. Manhattan not doing or saying X, because he knows a thing has to happen the way it happens. Indeed, there were plenty of such instances in the course of his and Angela's story. What bugs me is him apparently specifically ignoring this by asking about Judd. That moment blew the whole thing to bits, imo.

As to the tachyon cannon, that's simply a common sense thing: they both could see the weapon uncovered, they knew it was the real threat, they knew it in real time in fact. A huge energy-pulsating weapon is a primary threat, as a matter of course. Dr. Manhattan pretty much let it himself get zapped (in a Dr. Strange/Endgame sort of way), as if it was a necessary thing. But that, too, blows the story up, because he apparently couldn't see any part of his life as Calvin, and seemingly had to "reset" when he was "awoken" as himself, so how could he even see the tragic end that should have been easily averted? Really, how could he even see it at all, given that the weapon was dripping tachyons? Blech.

And yeah, why would Angela fall for him? It makes her into little more than a fangirl, really.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
To each their own, but I'm pretty satisfied. Questions were answers, people were exploded, and Hong Chau deserves every Emmy ever for being able to out-ham Jeremy Irons of all people.
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
The finale was borderline silly, imo. There were no surprises to speak of and the loose ends weren't so much tied up as they were simply clumped together into a pseudo-knot (not unlike a small child might make).

There was some good stuff in earlier episodes, to be sure, but as a whole I consider it to be a tremendous flop. If there is a season two, I won't watch it. And I'll never rewatch this series.
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
I enjoyed it.

Omniscient characters are tough to make work. To work for me, either they’re seeing immutable futures they can’t change, or they’re seeing so many branches that it’s impossible to be certain which is the path that will be taken. Herbert took the latter trope with Paul Atreides. I think Watchmen took the former with Dr. Manhattan?

I don’t know that I’d want to watch it again, but it was a helluva ride. The performances of Regina King and Jeremy Irons alone made it worth my time.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,535
Reaction score
24,104
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
To each their own, but I'm pretty satisfied. Questions were answers, people were exploded, and Hong Chau deserves every Emmy ever for being able to out-ham Jeremy Irons of all people.

I don’t know that I’d want to watch it again, but it was a helluva ride. The performances of Regina King and Jeremy Irons alone made it worth my time.

Both of these. What amazing performances. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Here's the "But."

The pacing was all over the place. They had nine episodes to tell the story, and spent six of them providing slow-drip worldbuilding. And of the last three, one was a tile-in-the-blank-spots flashback episode.

So I guess I feel like narratively it was a mess, but so amazingly entertaining I forgive it.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
Both of these. What amazing performances. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Here's the "But."

The pacing was all over the place. They had nine episodes to tell the story, and spent six of them providing slow-drip worldbuilding. And of the last three, one was a tile-in-the-blank-spots flashback episode.

So I guess I feel like narratively it was a mess, but so amazingly entertaining I forgive it.

Yeah, episodes 6-8 were well-executed but kinda sucked the wind out of the narrative and then in the last one it was just a big rush to tie everything up and you wonder how many of those tantalizing details really mattered. Plus, yeah, the timey-wimey stuff was a bit of a cop out in the end. Not that I cared, still good fun and they pulled off the #socialcommentary pretty well IMHO.

But I'm not sure I can forgive them for that 'Tachyonic cannon' or whatever. TF even is that!?