Sceptical about amazon self publishing - need experienced viewpoints please

firstofmany · Oct 15, 2019

Hi, Newbie here (thanks to lisa for sorting out registration issues)
I'm about to self publish my first 100+ a5 softback self help guide
I'm a creative person and run a number of businesses. i'm competant at book design, layout, website design, social media marketing and had the book read by a number of people who feel it is a strong book
the subject matter relates to one of my businesses

the book is a self help guidebook and unique in its market place, its a book that guides people who choose to present their own divorce cases in family courts agains lawyers. its based on my experience working in the uk court system but written so any litigants in person can benefit inany others counrties as it outlines key assessment skills and how to deal with lawyers. the book has the potential to really change how people go through divorces and gain better results so I want it to go far ideally

as someone keen to make as good a profit from my creative endevours and to set off on book 1 of many in the best possible way, i'm keen to get the views of others on getting into bed with amazon as i'm rather not be giving profits to them as a huge corporate, i feel bad when i buy books off them myself, but us lazy humans want what we want fast...must work on that

i will be writing other books too some on similar subject and some different so i want to set -off correctly

i'm someone personally who still will go for a physical book over ebook, but i also enjoy audiobooks

my market research so far is showing amazon taking a lot of profit on the physical print on demand side of things and an almost no profiit model on the audiobooks via audible

I'd be able to record the audiobook myself as well

currently i have a uk quote for 100 copies for £220 Binding: Paperback
Size: Slim Volume
Orientation: Portrait
Cover Weight: 250gsm
Cover Finish: Matte
Insides: Black And White
Insides Weight: 80gsm

thought i'd potentially print off a 100 and test the market and sell via my website, i have a youtube channel with 6000+ view which i can promote it on. i could sell the audiobook for a profit on my website

if i sell my book for £14.99 plus post n packaging obvs far better for me profit and it means that i'd also get the email contact details of each customer who could poss become a client, no worries if not . . i dont mind a few trips to post office a week to post

So, my question really is does being on amazon work? im fully aware i need a promo plan.......just want to get off on the right foot for long term interests protected . . . .is it worth the cut in what they take? would they charge far more per book if i went with them and got a box to sell at home when taking calls from enquiries ?

would love some insights from people experienced . . .

M. H. Lee · Oct 15, 2019

The answer to your question really comes down to where your sales are going to come from. If you already have an audience that you've established off of Amazon and that's the only audience that will buy your book then doing a print run and selling off of your website probably will make you the most money. Or if you have a way to drive an audience to your website who will buy that book direct from you, same thing. But if you think the book can attract a broader audience then Amazon is one of the biggest platforms out there for reaching that broader audience. Most authors who do well even on the other sales platforms still see most of their sales on Amazon.

Another thing to explore is KDP Print or IngramSpark as print on demand print options as opposed to doing a print run. I don't know how long your book is but for a soft-cover 100 page book I think the cost is about $2.15 per copy for those services and you only pay that when someone buys the book so there's no up front cost involved. You can also order author copies from either source that you then sell yourself either through your website or in person. I would recommend that most new authors use a POD service rather than do a print run because as you learn and grow as a publisher chances are you'll want to make changes to either the cover or interior of the book. If you've done a print run you're then stuck with all the old copies of the book you hadn't yet sold. If you do POD, then you aren't. (Assuming you didn't order yourself some copies already.)

Also, don't discount the potential for ebook sales, too. There are a couple of models for what you're doing. One is high-end and direct but I'd think the price point on those is much higher than you're talking about here. The other is the mass market approach in which case your print price is probably in the range but you might also want to see if you can get ebook sales. I'm sure you're already aware, but if selling direct, think about sales tax issues and how you're going to address those.

Al X. · Oct 15, 2019

From the perspective of a fiction writer, 99% of my sales are ebooks. I don't sell a lot of hard copies but they do sell; the only reason I offer a KDP Print option is just as a service to those that actually want a hard copy. I make more margin on a $3.99 ebook than I do on a $9.99 paperback.

Amazon's KDP Print pricing structure is punitive to the author. They claim that the author gets a 60% royalty, but that simply isn't true, because they take the cost of the printing out of the author's cut. For a 70K word length novel, roughly 250 printed pages, the print cost is about $8.00 and some change, so doing the math, you don't get much left over unless you price your book out of marketability. If I sold more hard copies, I'd have a hangup about this but I don't.

It would seem to me however that a self-help guide would probably be more of a hard copy venue, but in any case I would offer an ebook and a KDP Print option. If you actually find that you are selling a lot of hard copies, maybe you explore the option of a print run, but then you lose the marketability of listing it on Amazon without jumping through major hoops.

Woollybear · Oct 15, 2019

Al X. said:
Amazon's KDP Print pricing structure is punitive to the author. They claim that the author gets a 60% royalty, but that simply isn't true, because they take the cost of the printing out of the author's cut. For a 70K word length novel, roughly 250 printed pages, the print cost is about $8.00 and some change, so doing the math, you don't get much left over unless you price your book out of marketability. If I sold more hard copies, I'd have a hangup about this but I don't.

Does that mean a book sold at $9.99 gives about a dollar to the author?

mrsmig · Oct 15, 2019

Print costs at KDP vary widely and are based on a number of factors. From the KDP website:

[h=3]How we calculate printing cost[/h]Printing costs vary depending on page count and ink type (black ink or color ink). Trim size, bleed settings, and cover finish don't affect printing cost. Printing cost also depends on which Amazon marketplace (website) your paperback was ordered from. Based on the print options you choose, KDP automatically calculates and displays your printing cost in the Rights & Pricing section of title setup.To calculate your paperback's printing cost, we add the applicable fixed cost from the tables linked above to the product of your page count multiplied by the applicable per page cost:

Fixed cost + (page count * per page cost) = printing cost

For example, here's how we calculate the printing cost of a 300-page black ink paperback sold on the US marketplace: $0.85 (fixed cost) + (300 (page count) * $0.012 (per page Cost)) = $4.45 (printing cost)

To estimate your printing cost, use our calculator. To see tables that summarize printing cost calculations by marketplace, click these links:

Here's a link to the entire page: Printing Cost/Amazon Kindle Direct

I just published my fourth book via KDP and seems to me my print cost ran around $6.00.

Gillhoughly · Oct 15, 2019

My info on Amazon's print side may be out of date, but I believe they still offer print on demand, which means a copy is printed when a customer places an order.

This means the writer doesn't have to foot the cost of a print run. I am okay at selling one copy at a time. The last time I did an indie title, my cost for 500 copies was 1100+ dollars. I sold them all via mail order, and saw a nice profit, but my overheads included postage, buying envelopes, printing/taping on address labels, schlepping down to the post office to mail them, wear on the car, and gas costs. This takes time away from your writing, BTW. LOTS of time.

For what they do, printing and shipping, their charges are a fair exchange for service. All you need do is write.

As for "royalties." I get paid a whole 1.25 per hard cover sold by my Big Five publisher, so your one dollar per copy sold is about right. The idea is sell thousands of copies, not just 100 at a time.

Certainly you will want to order copies for yourself to hand sell during promotions and those will be at a discount for the creator.

Next, let's address the fact that brick and mortar stores are not going to shelve your indie title. They only ever stock commercially published books. I don't know if you are aware of that. I meet many indie writers who assume that once their book is in print it will be in stores. Nope, that's not on the menu.

That said, your main sales venue being Amazon, then the burden on you will be promotion to get the word out about your work. You start checking how to use social media.

Ebooks: no question, they are lower cost, easy to transport, and a boon to people with bad eyes since one can change the font size. Make sure to price your ebooks fairly. Too many eager neos with expectations of making a fortune overprice their works. No one is going to throw a wad of money your way for information they can get for free via an Internet search, so put some research into your price points. Check the prices on books of similar length, both fiction and nonfiction, and find a sweet spot that's good for you AND your target market.

Embrace ebooks. I sell 10-20 of those for each hard copy of my indie titles.

Another major advantage to ebooks is when you spot typos -- and you will -- you can correct them right away. Also, as divorce laws mutate, you can easily update the book over the years.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. Dig in, do your research, and don't overprice. Better to make fast fivers over slow tenners.

cool pop · Oct 15, 2019

First off you NEED to have your book in ebook format if you want to sell as much as possible. Ebooks are no longer "optional" formats. If you expect to capture a huge part of the reading audience, you need ebooks.

It's not about your preference as a reader. That doesn't matter. You are selling to the public and the public is not necessarily like you. Writers tend to judge readers based off their own habits. You say you read print? I don't know anyone still reading print. I'm being serious. People I know, none read print. I haven't read a print (fiction) book in almost 10 years. Still, I am not judging everyone based off my experiences but what I have seen from being an author and most readers have left print behind. That's just how it is.

I write fiction. I do have paperbacks but they are probably not even 1% of my sales. Is it worth being on Amazon? Let me answer it this way, Amazon represents probably 98% of the US book market and that seems to be growing instead of shrinking. I can't see a self-published author being able to make any sales without an Amazon presence. You don't have to be exclusive like some choose to be but being on Amazon is definitely a necessity because nine times out of then the majority of your sales (if not all) will be from Amazon. So is it worth it...a big fat yes. Most likely you won't get half the volume at the other places that you get on Amazon. Doesn't mean you should not publish everywhere but you would be wasting your time to exclude Amazon.

Print or otherwise, you should definitely have your book on the Zon. If you have a huge International following (or hope to) you need to be on Kobo too.

M. H. Lee · Oct 15, 2019

It's very important in conversations like this to distinguish between non-fiction and fiction when discussing print vs. ebook. I see up to 75% sales in print on the non-fiction side and 2% with my romances with other genres falling somewhere in between. I recently spoke to a non-fiction publisher that publishes technical-type books and they also said they see about 75% print sales and 25% ebook. Print is much more important on the non-fiction side than it is on the fiction side of things.

Earthling · Oct 16, 2019

cool pop said:
It's not about your preference as a reader. That doesn't matter. You are selling to the public and the public is not necessarily like you. Writers tend to judge readers based off their own habits. You say you read print? I don't know anyone still reading print. I'm being serious. People I know, none read print. I haven't read a print (fiction) book in almost 10 years. Still, I am not judging everyone based off my experiences but what I have seen from being an author and most readers have left print behind. That's just how it is.

Ebook sales are declining or stagnating and paperback sales are increasing. See, for example (plenty of other sources available with a search) https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent-bookstores/

Is it worth being on Amazon? Let me answer it this way, Amazon represents probably 98% of the US book market and that seems to be growing instead of shrinking.

It's actually around 50% of the US market. In the UK, and probably other countries, it's less than 50%.

Woollybear · Oct 16, 2019

Earthling said:
Ebook sales are declining or stagnating and paperback sales are increasing. See, for example (plenty of other sources available with a search) https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent-bookstores/

It's actually around 50% of the US market. In the UK, and probably other countries, it's less than 50%.

Cool link--and it looks like the trend continues into 2019 (although my search terms might have biased the results):

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamro...6-billion-in-first-half-of-2019/#7a09c4f416b5

https://about.ebooks.com/ebook-industry-news-feed/

ebooks down 4% this year and amazon makes up 67% of 'the' (undefined after a cursory read) market.

lizmonster · Oct 16, 2019

Pretty sure, though, that ebooks still dominate the self-publishing market, even if that's mostly due to POD costs and distribution issues.

AW Admin · Oct 16, 2019

Earthling said:
Ebook sales are declining or stagnating and paperback sales are increasing. See, for example (plenty of other sources available with a search) https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent-bookstores/

Keep in mind that those are Trade published books; that makes a difference because of pricing.

POD books are printed On Demand. They cost more to produce per unit; they tend to have higher cover prices, and their sales are not really tracked because they aren't usually sold via retail bookstores.

For self-publishers selling primarily online, ebooks are crucial. For fiction, especially, I'd suggest waiting to have a base of readers and your second book before doing a printed book.

ironmikezero · Oct 16, 2019

AW Admin said:
Keep in mind that those are Trade published books; that makes a difference because of pricing.

POD books are printed On Demand. They cost more to produce per unit; they tend to have higher cover prices, and their sales are not really tracked because they aren't usually sold via retail bookstores.

For self-publishers selling primarily online, ebooks are crucial. For fiction, especially, I'd suggest waiting to have a base of readers and your second book before doing a printed book.

1+ in agreement . . . Ebooks in fiction are truly critical in today's market.

As an author, I typically follow the ebook release with with a POD option (paperback) and then a POD hardback option (Ingram Spark). It may be somewhat of an anomaly, but the hardbacks do better than the paperbacks (perhaps because POD paperback print costs are so high, the hardbacks seem reasonable at retail by comparison?) I don't really know. Of course the bulk of sales are for the ebooks versions (science fantasy mash-up series).

Al X. · Oct 17, 2019

Patty said:
Does that mean a book sold at $9.99 gives about a dollar to the author?

For a typical novel length book, that is correct. I get a dollar and some change.

firstofmany · Oct 17, 2019

thanks for all the insights and thoughts people! really appreciated

i forgot in the original post to say:

1.of course yes i will do ebook
2.i’m going to make this part of a series and i have seen the great threads on the site regarding how that helps sales long term
3.yes i’m aware most shops will not take a indie title or one they see is published by amazon
4.i can understand amazon POD is a good way to trial the market and the balance of ebook versus hard copy sales is a good idea. i did some market research on Facebook with friend and they were all hard copy book people but i know a mix of people out there

may try and approach a few local booksellers for a local stop and also try and give free copies away to libraries for reference

i’m a little anti-corporation in my personal politics and hence wary of the amazon approach, so trying to align or make peace or decide against really.

i must admit i buy second hand books on there, as its that simple human lazyness of where can i get get, click buy .done. i want to stop buying off them personally so thats my quandry in part . . . wrestling with that is part of my issue tbh

i think my book is really valuable to people and has a shelf life. I'm not trained in law (but get great results) a solicitor has read the book and says i have a unique simple way of explaining things so i hope it can really help people, raise my profile and become a long term start of a passive income stream .whilst the book is based in UK experiences i believe it covers principles that are helpful to all people presenting their own case in court across the world. does this make publishing on amazon UK only a issue ? can they make avail for sale worldwide and post accordingly?

i do get traffic to my site (uk only though) and could sell to customers who are interested in my niche expertise so having a little stock of books personally will help . .

as i understand it if i publish on my own at the costs in the original post (the printer now said an isbn extra cost not included), its really hard to get listed on amazon as a seller . . .

so i'm torn between just do it and test market

i tend to over anaylise a bit

but that can be helpful for long term outcomes that work, i like the make a fast five over a slow ten idea . .

Earthling · Oct 18, 2019

lizmonster said:
Pretty sure, though, that ebooks still dominate the self-publishing market, even if that's mostly due to POD costs and distribution issues.

Yes, absolutely (ditto to AW Admin's post). My post wasn't strictly relevant to the OP's question (sorry, OP) but I wanted to correct the misinformation that was written as if it applied to all books.

Laer Carroll · Dec 5, 2019

AW Admin said:
For self-publishers selling primarily online, ebooks are crucial. For fiction, especially, I'd suggest waiting to have a base of readers and your second book before doing a printed book.

Second that. I'm now selling low several thousand books a year of sci-fi/fantasy. And only a few dozen of them are POD books. I use the "pbooks" for review copies and as gifts to family and friends. (One of them actually reads them to my utter surprise rather than using them as table-leg levelers!)

My 10th book, incidentally, will include a hardback via Ingram Spark because I've found that Amazon's POD book covers curl away from the text.

Sceptical about amazon self publishing - need experienced viewpoints please

firstofmany

M. H. Lee

Al X.

Woollybear

mrsmig

Write. Write. Writey Write Write.

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

cool pop

It's Cool, Miss Pop if You're Nasty

M. H. Lee

Earthling

I come in peace

Woollybear

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

AW Admin

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW

Al X.

firstofmany

Earthling

I come in peace

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer