Christian Fantasy - how to deal with a "magical" world?

aguywhotypes

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
273
Reaction score
13
Location
Aiken, SC
Website
abstractsbybrian.com
I want to write a fantasy story where there is no magic spells,etc
but at the same time I want a fantastical world.

Like portals, creatures and possible different races.

I want God of Light and false "gods" characters either serve one or the other.

Can't those portals and other fantastical elements of the world have to be magic? Why can't they just be?

Then I thought of Narnia and the closet door was the portal and yet didn't we all think to be a magic portal?

I'm having a problem as a Christian writer how to use things like that without them being magic.
 

BradCarsten

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
96
Location
Johannesburg South Africa
Could you come up with scientific reasons why things are the way they are, based on the physics of that world. (aka star wars and Midi-chlorian) That way the magic isn't supernatural, just like lightning isn't supernatural on earth, but it's still pretty spectacular.
 
Last edited:

lonestarlibrarian

senior bean supervisor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
756
Reaction score
169
Right, because in Narnia, you had things like Deep Magic from the Dawn of Time, and the Deeper Magic From Before the Dawn of Time, which got discussed in LWW. The Emperor put the magic into Narnia, although we never see him--- but we do see Aslan doing the work of Creation in TMN. So we think of the portals in Narnia as being magic because Lewis made it obvious magic was part of the world--- but it came from two different sources. Aslan's magic has nothing in common with the White Witch's magic, because one was healthy and sourced from the Emperor, and the other was unhealthy was based on witchcraft, even though both overrode natural laws.

re: the multiple deities, in Narnia, you had Tash and Aslan. But at the same time, Aslan wasn't an end to himself--- he was subservient to the Emperor-over-the-Seas, even though they were in perfect unity. The end of TLB has some good bits about how a person might say with his voice, or his thoughts, "I serve x," but by his actions, he actually serves y.

The Narnia books are also full of Roman gods and goddesses, especially in the earlier-written books--- Pomona, Bacchus, the river god, dryads, naiads, and so on. But they're basically created creatures who serve the Emperor in their own way as well, but with superpowers, rather than being a target of veneration in and of themselves.

So when I see a pantheon handled in fiction, I tend to be attracted to the type of worldbuilding that has multiple layers--- off in the background, you have your One Without Whom the World Cannot Exist-type God character, but those who actually interact with the characters are varying degrees of greater or lesser deity. They have a job to do, and they do it. In contrast with, say, the very binary good-and-evil fighting-for-souls sort of approach. I think the reason why that works for me, as a reader, is that I'm more inclined to contrast my personal RL ideas about theology against the binary version, whereas I'm more inclined to treat the layered pantheon approach as ordinary worldbuilding. CS Lewis did it well--- Bujold also did an excellent job with her World of the Five Gods series.

As a Christian writer, I think the key is whether the superpowered stuff happens With Divine Approval, or Apart From Divine Approval But He Allows It to Happen Anyways Because Free Will But It Will Eventually Catch Up To You In a Bad Way Because That's Why It Wasn't Allowed In the First Place Because It Harms You And Others Whether You Know It Or Not. Stuff that happens With is going to be good, whatever you choose to call it; stuff that happens Apart is going to be bad, whatever you choose to call it. But that goes back to the nature of your power's source.
 

Frost

Registered
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I have that problem but a little bit less. The way I look at is the "magic" isn't the magic for our world. I think of how C.S Lewis wrote it in The Magician's Nephew.

"I don’t mean another planet, you know; they’re part of our world and you could get to them if you went far enough – but a really Other World – another Nature another universe – somewhere you would never reach even if you traveled through the space of this universe forever and ever – a world that could be reached only by Magic."

It is not magic, at least it's not worldly magic because you can see it as another dimension. There is a deep magic in the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe but it's not magic that we have on earth. Animals can talk. It's just another universe separate laws and science can be made as BradCarsten said. It's also the Pevensie are in another world, separate from our own but somewhat the same. The book seems to be going into the child within you, where anything seems to be possible without all the rules of magic, where it is something else.

It's just an idea. Hope that it helped without sounding too complected. I'm a noob to helping people :|
 

aguywhotypes

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
273
Reaction score
13
Location
Aiken, SC
Website
abstractsbybrian.com
On another thread elsewhere someone suggested that maybe what I'm really after is a sci-fi setting that is masquerading as low magic.

What's that famous line that Arthur C Clarke said about highly advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic?
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,612
Reaction score
14,744
Location
Massachusetts
Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian.

Yeah, I'm not sure I see what the problem is. Are you worried about "magic" because you're explicitly writing for a Christian audience you think will be offended? Or are you just wrestling with your own personal beliefs?

I do think what you probably want to write is "science fantasy" -- Star Wars being a fair popular example of it. "The Force" has a quasi-scientific explanation, but audiences frankly don't care. (I frankly would've preferred they leave it as a quasi-mystical & mysterious thing; some things in fiction are better left unexplained.)
 

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
12,937
Reaction score
4,453
Location
USA
Website
brightdreamersbookreviews.blogspot.com
Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian.

Yeah, I'm not sure I see what the problem is. Are you worried about "magic" because you're explicitly writing for a Christian audience you think will be offended? Or are you just wrestling with your own personal beliefs?

I do think what you probably want to write is "science fantasy" -- Star Wars being a fair popular example of it. "The Force" has a quasi-scientific explanation, but audiences frankly don't care. (I frankly would've preferred they leave it as a quasi-mystical & mysterious thing; some things in fiction are better left unexplained.)

+1 (and also not Christian)

There is no rule saying that a secondary/portal world must have magic; it can just be a different world, with maybe some different rules.

If there are gods or godlike forces there, you can link the "magic" to them - making them good or evil or neutral as you wish, but emphasizing that what looks like "magic" is flowing from the gods and not the humans, if that's your holdup over the idea of "magic." Or, as Introversion said, come up with a technobabble/"midichlorian" explanation that's not technically magic (though I also agree that the explanation cheapened the whole Force idea.) C. S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy took place on a far-future colony world where a local force called the fey physically manifested thoughts and emotions; some people learned to manipulate it like magic, but it wasn't actually magic and had an alien explanation.

And I believe that there are purists out there who, despite the obvious and, frankly, heavy-handed Christian symbolism/allegories, object to Narnia as being ungodly anyway. There are those who object to Winnie the Pooh for having "talking animals", which are a blasphemy to their interpretation of their faith. In other words, if you want to write a story that won't upset anyone or any Christian, you'll end up with your name on a blank sheet of paper, I'm afraid. If someone's looking to be offended, they'll find a way.
 

Kat M

Ooh, look! String!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
951
Reaction score
627
Location
Puget Sound
Are you worried about "magic" because you're explicitly writing for a Christian audience you think will be offended? Or are you just wrestling with your own personal beliefs?

Thirding this question. And I am a Christian—which is making me wonder if you're trying to get away from all magic or just specific magic. For example, I'll read anything; my coworker will show her daughter "Cinderella" because she doesn't mind magic, but won't touch "Moana" because it personifies non-Christian deities; other Christians won't consume any magical media whatsoever. Or take Harry Potter: some Christians won't touch it; others would be fine with it if it weren't about witches and wizards; others have sorted the twelve apostles into Hogwarts Houses (Peter definitely belongs in Gryffindor).

So whether you're thinking about your own beliefs or your potential audience's (or both), this bears thinking through. What kind of magic or speculative phenomena are you trying to avoid and why?
 

Grunkins

Grand adventurer of the couch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
490
Reaction score
32
The Old Testament has magicians, sorcerers, witches, those who consort with spirits (summoners), necromancers, priests of various pagan gods, demon possessed people with super-human strength (NT)...etc. Lots of fodder within the Bible itself.
 
Last edited: