I'm just curious as to how much worldbuilding you guys do before you start writing. Do you work out all the intricacies and details before you start? Or do you add things as you go along? I've noticed that a most of the time I just go in with the basic ideas and characters and flesh out the world around them as I write, essentially ab libbing. What's your method?
How much world building do you do?
- Thread starter petuh112
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There are as many writing methods as there are writers. We all have to find our own way - which IMO is done by performing a post mortem after each project and evaluating what worked and what didn't, then make improvements for the next project.
It's said that we fall into two extremely broad categories - plotters and pantsters (writing via the seat of your pants). There are numerous methods that span those apparent opposites.
Pantsters get an idea, sometimes fully formed and other times not, and just start writing - loving the joy of discovery along the way. It's like striking out into the wilderness without a map or provisions.
Worldbuilding falls more into the realm plotter IMO. In addition to plotting out the course of our story in advance, we develop character profiles, and lay out the world social structure, demographics, culture, and government as part of our process. Some (again, my opinion) take world building so far that it delays and interferes with the actual writing. When I world build, my only concerns are what would have an impact on my story, beyond that isn't important.
You'll get a lot of differing points of view. I think you should write out your character profiles enough so you can see and hear them. Consider word usage (we each dip our tongue into a different well or words), mannerisms (ticks). Consider demographics, and how characters relate to each other; is there a history between them... that sort of thing. If your story involves government or the military, write that out too. Doing this sort of stuff may keep you from having to go back and rewrite the beginning when you near the end.
It's said that we fall into two extremely broad categories - plotters and pantsters (writing via the seat of your pants). There are numerous methods that span those apparent opposites.
Pantsters get an idea, sometimes fully formed and other times not, and just start writing - loving the joy of discovery along the way. It's like striking out into the wilderness without a map or provisions.
Worldbuilding falls more into the realm plotter IMO. In addition to plotting out the course of our story in advance, we develop character profiles, and lay out the world social structure, demographics, culture, and government as part of our process. Some (again, my opinion) take world building so far that it delays and interferes with the actual writing. When I world build, my only concerns are what would have an impact on my story, beyond that isn't important.
You'll get a lot of differing points of view. I think you should write out your character profiles enough so you can see and hear them. Consider word usage (we each dip our tongue into a different well or words), mannerisms (ticks). Consider demographics, and how characters relate to each other; is there a history between them... that sort of thing. If your story involves government or the military, write that out too. Doing this sort of stuff may keep you from having to go back and rewrite the beginning when you near the end.
At the beginning of a manuscript, I write as much backstory as I need to understand the context of the MC, the inciting event, and the central conflict. I sketch out a rough map. Where is the MC? Where is she going? Where did she come from? Same questions for the antagonist. The map solves some questions and raises others. Mountains suggest a physical barrier that becomes a political border. Are the nations on either side rivals? Allies? Sworn enemies? I try (try!) not to get too bogged down in far flung questions, but I make quick notes on religion, trade routes, politics. All of these begin to suggest histories and worldbuilding.
I keep the worldbuilding several steps ahead of where I'm working in the manuscript. Each informs the other. A river journey needs a portage, where would it be? Would it be interesting if one of the PoV characters visited the ancient ruins I've jotted on the map? Of course it would, so off they go. Why? Well, there's an interesting subplot there... And the whole time I'm working from both ends of the story. While I don't pre-write the ending (I often have only vague glosses of how it will all play out), I do need to know something about the end of my character's journey, so I try to tease out the backstory there too. Little by little. She needs the MacGuffin to do the Very Important Climactic Moment? Why? What's the history of the MacGuffin? Ah, those ruins I mentioned...
And so forth.
In the end, I have notes, and fragments of this history, a diary entry I wrote there for a long dead wizard, or the last letter of an ancient king, or the testament of the religion's most important prophet. Bits of map that sort of fit together, incomplete timelines, and partial backstories (for characters who never appeared on the page) but which still have rough spots for completion (sequels?) and blank spaces to fill out (series potential!)
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A bit of a back-handed comment there, indianroads.
You make it sound like a recipe for disaster, but 'pantsters' are properly clothed, do carry provisions plus a compass, and use observation, imagination, and common sense to follow the clues to their destinations. 
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A bit of a back-handed comment there, indianroads.
Yeah, I've come to believe planners and pantsers (and everyone in between!) actually have the same process; we just accomplish the steps in different ways. I work out all the worldbuilding and pacing in as much detail as any plotter - I just do it by drafting rather than notetaking.
You could say the pantsers (indeed anyone's) 'compass' is 'what they write' because what one has written usually influences what one writes next. When one gets lost, the cause of the getting lost can often be traced back to where the writing ignored what had been written before.
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My stories, for the most part, happen in the world I live in. For example, my character's family cabin is AMAZINGLY much like my little cabin in the woods. Relationships are much like those I live in. Ambitions, the same. Conflicts, a bit more complex than my own. But the point is that I don't have to do a lot of world building -- for my own writing -- because I exist in that world and can readily borrow from it.
If I were attempting to write in a genre like fantasy or scifi or even a western, I'd have a different approach. And as others have said here, each approaches this task in his/her own way. It works or it doesn't. It gets refined and improved. And we keep writing on!
If I were attempting to write in a genre like fantasy or scifi or even a western, I'd have a different approach. And as others have said here, each approaches this task in his/her own way. It works or it doesn't. It gets refined and improved. And we keep writing on!
Yeah, I've come to believe planners and pantsers (and everyone in between!) actually have the same process; we just accomplish the steps in different ways. I work out all the worldbuilding and pacing in as much detail as any plotter - I just do it by drafting rather than notetaking.
This.
I believe this is true, with the addition of the concepts of recursion and regression.
Writers don't do things in the same order, and they may repeat stages of their process or go "backwards" over material already created, modifying it.
And I think this is true about the nature of many other creative pursuits.
When I wrote my first mss, the only place I worked out elements of my world was the manuscript. That led to a lot of later revisions/cuts as I eliminated world building that benefited me more than the reader. However, I did it that way because I am instinctually a pantser--I only thought through my world when I needed to push my story along. Now that I'm on the second mss, I have less world-building to do for my sake (though there's still a fair amount--it's a big universe) and I can focus on the reader better. I think I'll get better at pantsing now that I understand my world. So I guess you could say I wrote a whole book of plotting so that I could get better at pantsing the second one.
Looked at that way, pantsing and plotting look a lot like each other, which just means I'm agreeing with Lizmonster and AW Admin. Litdawg--skilled in recognizing where other people are right; slow in being right; challenged to know when others are wrong.
Looked at that way, pantsing and plotting look a lot like each other, which just means I'm agreeing with Lizmonster and AW Admin. Litdawg--skilled in recognizing where other people are right; slow in being right; challenged to know when others are wrong.
A bit of a back-handed comment there, indianroads.
Sorry - I was abbreviating in my post.
I pantsed my first 2 (unpublished) novels, as as you said, I did have a map and knew where I was going. I plot now, so my process has changed a lot.
I do pretty much zero. I like to get the core of the story down and then go back and slip in the peripheral details as a way of relaxing and enjoying the world I am creating.
This is lengthy, feel free to skip it if time is budgeted.
I'm the outlier in this, but I thought I'd share what I'm doing (if interested). Plotters and Pantsers, in my opinion, exist on a spectrum. Each are at opposite ends. In the middle is an exact mix of the two. There are differing levels in between the two extremes. I am somewhere on the heavy side of plotters / planners.
I created loads of intellectual property (I.P.) that all ties in together (characters, settings, and so on). Up until this point, it has been chaotic to keep track of. To manage it, I opted to create standalone and trilogies following different MCs. If all goes well, I will create a grand project with one MC and other, previous MCs will become secondary/side characters, subplots, and so on.
I needed a way to keep track of the chaos (I.P.) and the ways shared settings, characters, and so on, change throughout the projects. I created a master character development suite. I am in the process of completing a master story development suite. Finally, I will have a mega-series bible (combining information from all projects). Each document contains world-buidling information. The primary goal of them is to remain consistent and not break continuity. Table of Contents and intra-document linking makes it all organized per document. Each standalone / series gets a character and story development suite of its own.
I will add information, as needed to each document, before I work and during a new standalone / series.
There are fantastic authors out there who offer great information what you can add to such documents. My three documents will contain check boxes, character slides, fill-in questions, info on the 16 MBTI character types with numerous character examples, and so on. Of some authors I used to generate my documents, YouTubers Vivien Reis and Abbie Emmons helped a great deal with the story/character development suites. Eva Deverell (eadeverell.com) has loads of worksheets. I cherry picked questions and details from 150 worksheets on her site that are relevant to my projects. I also created many categories of my own, such as character spectrum slides (e.g. where they stand between charity and cruelty) with 28 of these to work. I created questions of character memories (an element of backstory) to help with series symmetries or standalone conflict with people from his/her past. Once you start understanding what the authors are doing, it is fun to create useful documents to help tell stories of round characters and their transformations in standalone and series.
My standalones / series are mapped on a timeline. Characters shared between series morph over time. Some of my entries (such as character slides and MBTI changing per project) tell me of the state of mind, personality, behaviors, and so on, of these characters at any, given time on the timeline. This helps with tying series elements together (and creating scenes with backstories I can address in current WIPs).
I have a pipe dream of selling my I.P. one day, so it will help me a great deal to keep account of large casts, locations, custom food items, alien species, spells, potions, potion ingredients, tournaments, weapons, vehicles, and so forth.
I'll have my documents finished and filled out by sometime next month. The documents also serve to help expedite the writing process, as standalone & series casts, character arcs, and 3-act structure elements will be predetermined.
Because of the scope, I opted to try screenplays to tell the stories. The author resources noted above are a tremendous help for screenwriting. Screenwriting often goes without a narrator, so I avoid tools developed to help with narrator components. One standalone at a time, with my best I.P. / foot forward. I'm almost finished with screenplay learning too.
I did a great deal of research on the Star Wars Holocron (more or less a series bible of original canon and expanded universe) through peeking through books by DK publishing on Star Wars (of what I.P. was created and details of each). Looking through Pottermore was somewhat beneficial. Marvel and DC character bibles were useful to view as well.
I've rambled too long. I don't recommend doing anything I did. A lot of time was invested in the venture, but I have many reasons why I did it. Maybe this post will inspire you to look for existing documents (if interested) and see if these are helpful for your world-building as well. Maybe others are interested.
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I am writing the second book of a series set in a human dominated universe, and before writing the first novel I had a loose idea of the 'world' I created. I then invented the characters and everything else as I went along and the whole thing seemed to build itself.
The framework I had in mind has ensured consistency when I introduce elements and as the details grow I find everything knits together nicely, possibly because my subconscious has a better handle on everything than I thought. I will need to write a cross-referenced 'bible' before too long to keep tabs on the growing volume of information, but I've been putting that off. Maybe I can talk my wife into doing it...
The framework I had in mind has ensured consistency when I introduce elements and as the details grow I find everything knits together nicely, possibly because my subconscious has a better handle on everything than I thought. I will need to write a cross-referenced 'bible' before too long to keep tabs on the growing volume of information, but I've been putting that off. Maybe I can talk my wife into doing it...
Try Brittany Wang's digital or print series bible.... https://www.authorbrittanywang.com/writingtips
It's basic. Not much there for a Sci-Fi series, but worth looking into.
A lot of my stories tie loosely into each other. The worldbuilding consists of stuff I’ve made up entirely on the fly, along with a decade of daydreaming in the shower. None of it’s written down anywhere, except in the actual drafts. I do have lots of little sketches and things, though. Is that visual worldbuilding?
I've done it both ways and in several ways in between. It really depends on the story. In a novel length work, I need to see the world in my mind. That requires some thought. In shorter works, I have a general idea that gets my character started. Basically, every work will begin and end with world building. You will make changes along the way, but you need something about the world to get your story started.
I've thought a lot about worldbuilding. I like really well done "deep" worldbuilding however... there really isn't much of it. I think LeGuin has a really deft touch and does an excellent job of panting a world in very few strokes, as well as reflecting on our own world with her differences. People like Martin, supposedly hailed for their deep and excellent worldbuilding I like at first but the more I thought about it the more frustrated I became, because, taken on it's own "practical and gritty" terms his world just falls apart. At the same time I really enjoy the Bas-Lag world of China Mieville, and his world is more dreamlike and not necessarily defined.
Anyway I try to do deep worldbuilding, but world-show, not world-tell.
Anyway I try to do deep worldbuilding, but world-show, not world-tell.
I'd say that the people who do that are often the ones who never actually start. They're always more detail that they need to nail down before they can begin the real work of writing the story. Essentially, it's treating writing like baking a cake in that they want/need to know everything that goes in it before you even start, and once you've put the ingredients in the bowl, it's not like you can take an egg, or the chocolate out once you've started mixing.
Except that when cooking, it's perfectly acceptable to wing things as you go along, and writing is even more changeable without having to start all over from scratch. You can continue to correct, expand, and edit right up until the point of publication (and sometimes after!)
My cowriter and I had all of our characters, where they were from, the basic religions, and the rudiments of the magic system before we started writing. The rest of it we found along the way, some of it we changed halfway through.
I wouldn't say we nailed down the intricacies but we built up good sketches of most of the elements before we started writing.
I wouldn't say we nailed down the intricacies but we built up good sketches of most of the elements before we started writing.
I'm at the start of my writing career, with two books written but none published, but I've been trying different methods to see what works best for me.
Right now my process starts with a basic story idea, then a decision about what kind of world the story should take place in--something very general like "pseudo-medieval," "ancient Chinese," "near future," etc. Sometimes this decision is purely aesthetic, and sometimes it flows naturally from the story idea itself.
Once I have an idea of the type of world, I try to nail down details in a variety of categories. Geography, magic system, form of government (or lack thereof), laws, religion, economy, customs, art, music, etc. The more significant categories--that is, the ones that have the most drastic effects on a society, like government and religion--get more attention than the less significant categories. This process involves a fair amount of historical research, because I feel most comfortable basing my worlds on real historical societies, rather than trying to make entirely original ones. Human societies are insanely complex, and trying to invent a believable one completely from scratch seems like an exercise in futility to me.
Once I have a modest amount of material in each category (usually no more than a page each), as well as a detailed plot outline, I feel like I have enough figured to start writing. And I tend to end up using only 50% or less of the world building I did. Even so, all that planning at the start gives me a really solid foundation. It helps me feel more familiar with and immersed in the world, so I can focus more on the story itself, rather than getting randomly hung up on details like "How would people say hello?" or "What would this merchant realistically sell?" That was something that really slowed me down in my previous projects.
So yes. At the moment, I'm a plotter. I finished my second book in 2.5 months, a far cry from the six years consumed by my first one, so my current techniques are working out pretty well, I'd say.
Right now my process starts with a basic story idea, then a decision about what kind of world the story should take place in--something very general like "pseudo-medieval," "ancient Chinese," "near future," etc. Sometimes this decision is purely aesthetic, and sometimes it flows naturally from the story idea itself.
Once I have an idea of the type of world, I try to nail down details in a variety of categories. Geography, magic system, form of government (or lack thereof), laws, religion, economy, customs, art, music, etc. The more significant categories--that is, the ones that have the most drastic effects on a society, like government and religion--get more attention than the less significant categories. This process involves a fair amount of historical research, because I feel most comfortable basing my worlds on real historical societies, rather than trying to make entirely original ones. Human societies are insanely complex, and trying to invent a believable one completely from scratch seems like an exercise in futility to me.
Once I have a modest amount of material in each category (usually no more than a page each), as well as a detailed plot outline, I feel like I have enough figured to start writing. And I tend to end up using only 50% or less of the world building I did. Even so, all that planning at the start gives me a really solid foundation. It helps me feel more familiar with and immersed in the world, so I can focus more on the story itself, rather than getting randomly hung up on details like "How would people say hello?" or "What would this merchant realistically sell?" That was something that really slowed me down in my previous projects.
So yes. At the moment, I'm a plotter. I finished my second book in 2.5 months, a far cry from the six years consumed by my first one, so my current techniques are working out pretty well, I'd say.
When it comes to plot, I'm a huge plotter; I even use detailed chapter outlines. For worldbuilding, I'm a pantster. It's a weird dynamic. I usually have a main idea of the worldbuilding and then change it and layer it over subsequent drafts. Klope3, I really like the idea of having categories and details for each category. I feel like that can really organize the worldbuilding, especially when a person starts writing. I keep trying to find ways to streamline my process since I'm a slow writer. I find outlining the plot beforehand is helpful for me in cutting down the amount of rewriting I do. Everyone's process is so different.
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