When the Culture War Comes for the Kids

Introversion

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I'm not sure where this belongs, so I'll try here...

Caught between a brutal meritocracy and a radical new progressivism, a parent tries to do right by his children while navigating New York City’s schools.

The Atlantic said:
Our son underwent his first school interview soon after turning 2. He’d been using words for about a year. An admissions officer at a private school with brand-new, beautifully and sustainably constructed art and dance studios gave him a piece of paper and crayons. While she questioned my wife and me about our work, our son drew a yellow circle over a green squiggle.

Rather coolly, the admissions officer asked him what it was. “The moon,” he said. He had picked this moment to render his very first representational drawing, and our hopes rose. But her jaw was locked in an icy and inscrutable smile.

Later, at a crowded open house for prospective families, a hedge-fund manager from a former Soviet republic told me about a good public school in the area that accepted a high percentage of children with disabilities. As insurance against private school, he was planning to grab a spot at this public school by gaming the special-needs system—which, he added, wasn’t hard to do.

Wanting to distance myself from this scheme, I waved my hand at the roomful of parents desperate to cough up $30,000 for preschool and said, “It’s all a scam.” I meant the whole business of basing admissions on interviews with 2-year-olds. The hedge-fund manager pointed out that if he reported my words to the admissions officer, he’d have one less competitor to worry about.

When the rejection letter arrived, I took it hard as a comment on our son, until my wife informed me that the woman with the frozen smile had actually been interviewing us. We were the ones who’d been rejected. We consoled ourselves that the school wasn’t right for our family, or we for it. It was a school for amoral finance people.

...

I grew up in the Sixties. I was a white, middle-class kid living in suburbia that still verged on rural -- no dense neighborhoods, no sidewalks, "downtown" was a gas station and a little mom & pop market, and there were still little farms down the street we lived on.

The public schools I attended were "good enough" -- I was a bright kid, got good grades, encouraged to think about college, from both family and teachers.

I didn't attend preschool or kindergarten. It was only in my first weeks of first grade that I realized that classmates had, but I didn't feel like I'd missed anything. I've always been introverted, and I was good at occupying myself when not at school or doing chores. My childhood summers in that suburban town seemed endless, spent in entirely undirected play and exploration, tramping through woods and fields, splashing around in streams with nets and buckets, chasing bugs and watching birds.

I attended college at a Midwestern land-grant school where room + board + tuition totaled $2,500 my first year. It was the college of my choice, with a good reputation in the field I'd decided to go into (computer engineering), and I was never concerned about getting in -- it was a state school, and as a resident I only needed a C average to be admitted (which wasn't a problem).

What the author of that Atlantic piece described sounds like sheer hell to me, for all involved. I don't think the kind of hyper-competitiveness that author experienced with his son -- in preschool, for goodness' sake! -- serves US society well. I mean, I do get that NYC is not semi-rural Connecticut, so by it's nature it's a more competitive place. But setting kids on a path at two freaking years old to be worrying about their academic future seems unhealthy, and frankly counter-productive. Kids need to feel able to explore and make mistakes, and for those mistakes not to loom so large as to truncate their futures. Not everyone can or should want to be a "world-class something". Simple happiness is a worthy life goal.

It's hard not to feel like all of this is what capitalism was wrought upon us. "You are the pile of money you can (or cannot) earn." How disturbing.
 

MaeZe

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Did you mention if you had a stay-at-home mom?

I needed preschool/after school care for my son. $1,000 month (25 years ago dollars) so not quite $30K/year but not cheap.

At four he had an interview to place him in with the younger kids or older kids. The woman was surprised he knew the definition of 'automatic'. It was a terrible place so I only had him there one year. They had all these unproven teaching techniques of letting the kids do whatever they wanted and the teachers were supposed to support them.

Don't get me started. :rant:
 

BenPanced

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"But if we can't get him into the right preschool, he'll never get into the right elementary school and never into the right high school, then never into the right college and he'll never get the right job at the right company!"

"Who on earth said that?"

"The right people!"
 

ElaineA

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What the author of that Atlantic piece described sounds like sheer hell to me, for all involved. I don't think the kind of hyper-competitiveness that author experienced with his son -- in preschool, for goodness' sake! -- serves US society well. I mean, I do get that NYC is not semi-rural Connecticut, so by it's nature it's a more competitive place. But setting kids on a path at two freaking years old to be worrying about their academic future seems unhealthy, and frankly counter-productive.

Not just the kids, either. My NYC-living daughter and husband had an awesome apartment in the West Village and before they even had kids, they were carefully considering the future school situation. Not only is it psychological unhealthy, the "wealth" transfer from families (not all of them wealthy, as MaeZe demonstrates), is atrocious.
 

Introversion

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Did you mention if you had a stay-at-home mom?

I did, and this certainly made it possible for me not to need to attend preschool or kindergarten.

I know it's unusual, these days certainly, for families to be able to afford to have one parent stay home. I wasn't reacting to the idea of sending kids to preschool or kindergarten, just the hyper-competitive nature of those NYC schools that author spoke of.

I needed preschool/after school care for my son. $1,000 month (25 years ago dollars) so not quite $30K/year but not cheap.

At four he had an interview to place him in with the younger kids or older kids. The woman was surprised he knew the definition of 'automatic'. It was a terrible place so I only had him there one year. They had all these unproven teaching techniques of letting the kids do whatever they wanted and the teachers were supposed to support them.

Don't get me started. :rant:

I also don't suggest that schools should be unstructured. I might've benefited from a bit more structure before first grade. But I never had to fear that if I didn't pass a test in grade school (or earlier), that it was a life-altering event. That aspect of the article just seems so, so wrong.
 

Kjbartolotta

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Most of the elite preschools in West LA I know of need you to get the applications in before the kids are born.
 

Xelebes

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The thing that is mostly curious is how much testing is used to determine which school you will be admitted to. This smacks of the broader cultural phenomenon of most people recognising you not on what you do (as is often the case here in Canada) but on where you went to school. That by definition is not a meritocracy. The only merit you have earned is the name of a geographical location (geocracy), not an ability to do something.
 

ap123

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This is not new here. I'm fuzzy-thinking from being sick right now, so won't go into the whole spiel unless this thread is still going when I feel better, but my youngest graduated from high school this past June, and you literally can not imagine the relief (for ME) to be finished. 3 kids, raised here in Manhattan, the stress on parents and kiddos is unimaginable to those who live outside this system, beginning in yes, preschool, and testing to determine which public kindergartens the kids can apply for.
 

cornflake

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Thus has always been. My parents knew people who were worried about what school their theoretical kids, or, in some cases, fetuses, would get into.

If your kid is smart enough, tests well, has the parental support (I don't mean stay-at-home parents, but the support that helps with academic success from the beginning, that surrounds a kid with books, finds needed interventions, etc.), they can do exceptionally well in public schools in NY, but it's very competitive.

There are whole streams here, there's competitive public, charter, parochial, private, all of which can require testing, interviews, etc., and have pricing from free to $60,000 a year, from k through 12 (not kidding). It helps to be from here, or know people who are, to help navigate and know what's what, because, well, thus has always been.
 

shakeysix

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my 5 year old grandson was accepted into a "very good" kindergarten. three weeks into school he has grades! not the "plays well w/others... S or U" business but actual percentages. He had all grades of 95% or more, except Spanish, which is 88%. His parents are worried. So am I--my 5 year old grandson is failing Spanish????? How Nucking Futz is that?????????????????????
 

Brightdreamer

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IIRC, getting into acceptable preschools has been a motive in more than one crime show going back at least 20 or 30 years, and I expect it's only getting more cutthroat - especially as public schools are allowed to degrade further and further. (Heck, now kids are expected to take bullets for the sake of an education...) So many kids fall through the cracks, and society is unimaginably poorer as a result.
 

Kjbartolotta

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Yeah, pre-born preschool is nothing new, still something I never had exposure to until recently. I've worked with a lot of the high end schools out here, and I like a lot of the kids, teachers, and parents. Can't put anyone in a box. But, gonna be real, I have noticed a lot of the kids seem lacking in life skills and still have a tendency to fall up. Stop me if you heard this before.

My favorite hyper-competitive preschool that was actually a scam story.
 

Roxxsmom

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my 5 year old grandson was accepted into a "very good" kindergarten. three weeks into school he has grades! not the "plays well w/others... S or U" business but actual percentages. He had all grades of 95% or more, except Spanish, which is 88%. His parents are worried. So am I--my 5 year old grandson is failing Spanish????? How Nucking Futz is that?????????????????????

Kindergarten is the new fourth grade, preschool is the new kindergarten, and preschool is not just for kids one year prior to kindergarten either.

I don't know anyone who has been teaching college for any length of time who thinks today's freshmen are better at schoolwork, math, reading etc. than they ever were. Assigning grades and pushing them to read and do algebra earlier and earlier doesn't seem to be helping, and many of them fall apart once--after all those years of highly structured education and special programs taking up all their free time--they end up in the less structured and more self-directed college environment.
 
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Snitchcat

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Hmm... not particularly surprised or shocked at this. It's a who you know and prestige speaks volumes thing. Guess I'm accustomed to this. While I don't think it's healthy for anyone involved, it's also a "norm" that won't change until the schools stop setting out to make a profit, IMO.
 

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Competitiveness is a cover-up for a rigged system meant to keep wealth in the families that already have it. Competitiveness soothes the masses by giving them a chance to win, and falsely shames those who don't "win" at the rigged game.

The surest way to win a game is to break its rules. There are ways to break the rules that are not cheating.

There is also the option of not playing the game at all.
 

Albedo

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Elite preschool is surely an oxymoron. I don’t know if my preschool was elite. The Playdoh we ate may not have been artisanal/organic, but I don’t think my palate was discriminate enough back then to know the difference. What kind of nutritionally optimised modeling smart-clay do they feed the kids at a $30k preschool?

And how do they test for prenatal preschool admissions, anyway? Ultrasound, and award the fetus points for its synchronised swimming routine? In utero test for the dumb gene? I’m sorry, Mrs Morris. Your results have come back, and it appears that your fetus has turned out stupid.

I’m smarter than any of these uppity three year olds any day.
 

Brightdreamer

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And how do they test for prenatal preschool admissions, anyway?

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with how much money and how many connections the parents have to ensure the influence stays in the "proper breeding" lines, I say while trying not to drown in the Sarcasmo Sea...
 

Cobalt Jade

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I remember reading these kinds of articles back in the 1980s and 1990s. Everything comes around and is recycled.

I've no doubt it still happens in New York City but New York City is NOT the whole of America.
 

lizmonster

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Does it make a difference, though? I can think of a few professions where your school matters, but even then it generally only matters for the first 5-10 years of your career. And it can matter in weird ways - I got my first software job because the hiring manager used to direct the jazz band (of which I was not a part) at my college. He hired me in part because of sentiment. He didn't even look at my GPA. He for sure didn't know where - or if - I'd gone to preschool.
 

ElaineA

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Does it make a difference, though? I can think of a few professions where your school matters, but even then it generally only matters for the first 5-10 years of your career. And it can matter in weird ways - I got my first software job because the hiring manager used to direct the jazz band (of which I was not a part) at my college. He hired me in part because of sentiment. He didn't even look at my GPA. He for sure didn't know where - or if - I'd gone to preschool.

Brett Kavanaugh says, "yes, it matters."
 

lizmonster

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Brett Kavanaugh says, "yes, it matters."

Like I said, there are some professions where it matters. Certain aspects of the legal profession, certainly - but not all lawyers, and not all types of law.

I just suspect for most people it really doesn't matter where they went to preschool.
 

frimble3

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I suspect it's a matter of some parents being in a circle of competitive people, each one-upping the other in everything. And, having more money than time on their hands.
After all, someone is filling up all those basic public schools in New York, and every other city.

But fighting, and paying, for a place in the 'right' preschool is exactly what a helicopter parent wants. It doubtless makes them feel needed, and is probably a lot easier and less time consuming than home-schooling.
 
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