Whistleblower complaint against Trump re: deal with foreign power

Lyv · Sep 19, 2019

Whistleblower complaint about President Trump involves Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the matter

A whistleblower complaint about President Trump made by an intelligence official centers on Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the matter, which has set off a struggle between Congress and the executive branch.

The complaint involved communications with a foreign leader and a “promise” that Trump made, which was so alarming that a U.S. intelligence official who had worked at the White House went to the inspector general of the intelligence community, two former U.S. officials said

Two and a half weeks before the complaint was filed, Trump spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a comedian and political newcomer who was elected in a landslide in May.

That call is already under investigation by House Democrats who are examining whether Trump and his attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani sought to manipulate the Ukrainian government into helping Trump’s reelection campaign. Lawmakers have demanded a full transcript and a list of participants on the call.

Anyone following this? I don't even know where to start with this story, but this article is the latest, and has links to earlier stories. It's pretty convoluted and terribly alarming, but not surprising. The White House is trying to bury this story, fighting efforts by Democrats to get information.

cbenoi1 · Sep 19, 2019

There is a bizarre rumour mill about Trump calling the president of Ukraine and asking for dirt on Biden in exchange for military stuff. Nothing definite I can quote. YMMV.

-cb

Lyv · Sep 19, 2019

I saw that, too. cbenoi1. I'm not sure it's that bizarre. Not with this crew in charge. I first heard that allegations are that Trump had made a deal with Putin to name US spies in Russia in exchange for election help, and it sounds completely plausible. Both could be true, since there apparently there were multiple allegations. The GOP will shrug again, because they're treasonous vipers.

talktidy · Sep 19, 2019

I wonder if the Orange Wonder has finally fucked up beyond repair.

Details of the whistleblower's complaint seems to be emerging in bits and pieces. Lots of stuff about Ukraine. I expect the press to keep hammering at this until something gives, hopefully that will be Trump's continued presence in the WH.

Brightdreamer · Sep 19, 2019

talktidy said:
I wonder if the Orange Wonder has finally fucked up beyond repair.

If I had a nickel for every time I've thought/wished/hoped/begged-to-any-power-that-accepts-slightly-used-souls that...

One keeps hoping there will be a tipping point eventually.

One must also remember that the TeaOP has thrown itself all-in on transforming the entire government and justice department and court system into an impenetrable wall to keep their WH occupant untouched so long as the Agenda remains unfinished.

talktidy · Sep 19, 2019

Brightdreamer said:
If I had a nickel for every time I've thought/wished/hoped/begged-to-any-power-that-accepts-slightly-used-souls that...

One keeps hoping there will be a tipping point eventually.

One must also remember that the TeaOP has thrown itself all-in on transforming the entire government and justice department and court system into an impenetrable wall to keep their WH occupant untouched so long as the Agenda remains unfinished.

You may be right. I suppose it depends how things pan out over the next few days.

Kjbartolotta · Sep 19, 2019

I'm curious how Biden will respond to this. And actually mad on his behalf.

frimble3 · Sep 19, 2019

Brightdreamer said:
One keeps hoping there will be a tipping point eventually.

Remember that thread about 'How low would Trump go" or similar, and it turned out that there was no 'lower' to which he would not sink?
Let's not tempt the Fates again.

MaeZe · Sep 19, 2019

Kjbartolotta said:
I'm curious how Biden will respond to this. And actually mad on his behalf.

Good chance he'll do what he's been doing, avoid anything controversial, stay out of the limelight, avoid any chance of making another gaffe or calling attention to some failure of his. Biden thinks he can coast across the finish line without working for it.

It hilarious tRump believes he is too smart to have been overheard.

Given tRump uses his personal cell phone, I'm shocked no one has recorded his calls the way Gingrich got caught chatting with his mistress at the time.

ElaineA · Sep 19, 2019

MaeZe said:
Given tRump uses his personal cell phone, I'm shocked no one has recorded his calls the way Gingrich got caught chatting with his mistress at the time.

I'm sure we all assume Russia has, though.

I feel for the whistleblower. They're in deep sh**. The GOP will destroy the person professionally, and personally if they can. The WBer's last, desperate avenue is to come directly to the Intel committee, at risk of violating the law, but they have to be able to "trust that the committee will protect this person." And if we know one thing, it's that Devin Nunes won't keep any secrets.

BenPanced · Sep 20, 2019

ElaineA said:
I'm sure we all assume Russia has, though.

I feel for the whistleblower. They're in deep sh**. The GOP will destroy the person professionally, and personally if they can. The WBer's last, desperate avenue is to come directly to the Intel committee, at risk of violating the law, but they have to be able to "trust that the committee will protect this person." And if we know one thing, it's that Devin Nunes won't keep any secrets.

Srsly. I'm afraid that not even a federal witness protection program would save this person, no matter how many layers of new identity gets created for them. We might be looking at a real life "Hillary's Hit List™".

Lyv · Sep 20, 2019

A couple of updates:

Jim Acosta tweeted that Trump told reporters "it doesn't matter what I discussed" with Ukraine, and that he doesn't know the identity of the whistleblower, but they're "partisan." (Of course Fox News has the "partisan" quote as a headline).

‘Of course I did’: Giuliani acknowledges asking Ukraine to investigate Biden

Rudy Giuliani acknowledged on Thursday that he had asked top Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, an admission that comes as Capitol Hill Democrats investigate whether President Donald Trump and his personal lawyer are pressuring Ukraine’s government to dig up dirt on a 2020 election rival.

“So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?” CNN’s Chris Cuomo asked Giuliani in an interview on Thursday evening.

“Of course I did,” Giuliani shot back.

His comments come amid House Democrats’ intensifying look at allegations that Giuliani and Trump were squeezing Ukraine’s recently elected president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to reopen an investigation of a company connected to Biden’s son. The chairmen of the House Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight committees wrote to White House counsel Pat Cipollone last week demanding all documents that reference the allegations against Biden’s son, as well as the transcript of a July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.

A Ukrainian readout of the call indicates that Trump indicated Ukraine could improve its image in part by completing the “investigation of corruption cases, which inhibited the interaction between Ukraine and the USA.”

Let me consult the GOP Treason Playbook. Ah, ok, we've apparently just passed "We didn't do it," and are entering "We did it, but it's legal."

ElaineA · Sep 20, 2019

Lyv said:
Let me consult the GOP Treason Playbook. Ah, ok, we've apparently just passed "We didn't do it," and are entering "We did it, but it's legal."

I think we've now moved on to "Yeah? So what?"

Introversion · Sep 20, 2019

ElaineA said:
I think we've now moved on to "Yeah? So what?"

Paired with, “Not half as bad as Killary / 0dumb0 did”.

cbenoi1 · Sep 20, 2019

Lyv said:
"We did it, but it's legal."

It's probably not but Trump is running on the notion that an acting President cannot be indicted. So it's "legal" as long as he stays President.

Oh wait. Didn't Cohen mentionned Trump would not relinguish his position? ( link )

-cb

talktidy · Sep 20, 2019

I was going through my twitter feed and a few sources were suggesting the whistleblower was John Bolton. I don't know how likely that is, but I read that and I was all... eh what?

Imagine if this were the case, though. Blimey!

Lyv · Sep 23, 2019

I've heard Bolton, too, but I have no idea. I just saw this, though.

Whistleblower controversy thrusts little-known Trump appointee into the limelight

When the inspector general for the intelligence community alerted lawmakers to a mysterious whistleblower complaint detailing allegations about President Donald Trump's conduct, many who know him, including some who are skeptical of the complaint, said his reputation and credibility caused them to take his concerns seriously.

"As soon as I saw that he had recommended it be sent to Congress, that's all I needed to know it was legit," said Mary McCord, the senior litigator from Practice at the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection who worked with Atkinson at the US Attorney's Office and DOJ's National Security Division.

Several officials who acknowledged they are skeptical of the complaint told CNN the IC IG, Michael Atkinson, is a serious professional and that his recommendation gives them pause when they would have been inclined to dismiss the case otherwise.
Atkinson is widely regarded as a career non-partisan with little interest in the public limelight but he currently finds himself at the center of the high profile controversy related to whether the whistleblower complaint.

Of course, the article goes on to say that Atkinson is trying to respect the process, which means he is following the loss and his boss is carrying Trump's water, so it could go as far as Atkinson resigning.

MaeZe · Sep 23, 2019

I don't see why it would have been Bolton.

It's moot now though because it's been admitted by Trump, everything except what he offered in return.

My guess: If the National Intelligence Agency was involved (in the loop) then there's a good chance someone was listening in to the Ukrainian President's phone calls and picked up Trump's call in the course of routine spying.

It also looks like there is no there there when it comes to Biden or his son unless his son didn't report all his income on his taxes. And if he did report all his income (unlike Manafort) it just makes Trump's and his cronies look worse.

Introversion · Sep 23, 2019

MaeZe said:
It also looks like there is no there there when it comes to Biden or his son unless his son didn't report all his income on his taxes.

There was no there there about Hillary’s email server either, but it didn’t stop conservatives from inventing conspiracy theories as to why no one’s reporting them, or why Hillary’s not in prison. I expect we’ll hear the same endless bullshit about the Bidens.

ElaineA · Sep 23, 2019

Things are starting to boil on this.

7 first-term reps from Trump-voting or swing districts have put their names to an op-ed as to why this is the last straw.

Further, Josh Dawsey of the WaPo is reporting that Trump told Mulvaney to hold the aid days before the call with the Ukrainian PM, and that some WH people were worried it would be illegal. Then this:

Bolton argued to meet with Ukraine’s president and restore funding as a way to curb Russian aggression. Trump for some time was unmoved. He urged Biden probe. Giuliani urged probe. His aides began to worry move was illegal & GOP senators challenged.

Which means GOP senators knew and stayed silent. *waves at Lindsey "Traitor" Graham*

The transcript of this alleged call will not suffice. The WBer report must be transimtted to congress, as required by law. There will be a lot of political pressure to prevent that with what we know now, but I think the dam is completely busted on this. Everything will come out, either in the press, or in congress.

MaeZe · Sep 23, 2019

Hmmm, maybe Bolton is the whistle blower after all.

This thing is snowballing more than I imagined it would.

Roxxsmom · Sep 24, 2019

Using the office of the POTUS to coerce (or attempt to coerce) dirt out of foreign leaders is far more serious than doing it as a private citizen, even one who is running for office, isn't it?

Don't we have any rules at all about this kind of abuse of power? How can people of either party think this is okay?

And how can anyone think he's telling the truth when he says stuff like this:

It's a great call. It's a very honorable call. It's a nice call. We had a great conversation, very, very — a very nice conversation too.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/q...abuse-of-power-overshadow-trumps-agenda-at-un

ElaineA · Sep 24, 2019

Roxxsmom said:
Using the office of the POTUS to coerce (or attempt to coerce) dirt out of foreign leaders is far more serious than doing it as a private citizen, even one who is running for office, isn't it?

Don't we have any rules at all about this kind of abuse of power? How can people of either party think this is okay?

Judges, rollbacks of regulations, keeping the brown people out. Ends justify the means, etc etc. Beyond that, I'm convinced this isn't the first time he's done a similar thing and his cronies in congress knew it and were silent then, too. Remember how he praised NK as having great beaches? Anyone who thinks he didn't dangle investment to KJU wasn't listening. Of course, the difference there is he would have been dangling private investment and bringing along his oligarch buddies for a brand new way to launder money.

This is what we get when a lifelong criminal is allowed to get away with...well, everything, with impunity, though. The brazenness just escalates. It's one thing to dangle private cash, and another thing altogether to use money lawfully authorized by congress (ostensibly, the people's money) to demand quid pro quo. The republicans that continue to go along with this--and they almost all will--will be confronted with it when election-time comes.

Not that it'll matter to the die-hard cultists, but the campaign ads are--as the kids say--gonna be lit.

MaeZe · Sep 24, 2019

My posts on this topic are in the case for impeachment thread. They could go in either thread.

ElaineA · Sep 24, 2019

Today in the Senate:

The Senate has *unanimously* agreed to Schumer's resolution calling for the whistleblower complaint to be turned over the intelligence committees immediately.

That's every Senate Republican plus every Democrat now via unanimous consent agreeing to call on the Trump administration to cough up the whistleblower complaint, not just the phone call transcript. This is rare, folks.

Whistleblower complaint against Trump re: deal with foreign power

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