It's okay to say they

Now I can literally throw the book at people who argue about the definition and usage of 'they'

That should convince people who (mistakenly) think that dictionaries define correct usage & accept the dictionary's authority.

Since dictionaries describe actual usage, it's a great step that the definition includes this now. But it doesn't settle the matter for those who don't want to settle.

benbenberi said:

But it doesn't settle the matter for those who don't want to settle.

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There's a lot of "advice" (really, common sense explanations) about various helpful behaviors people *not* in a particular group can demonstrate, and it strikes me over and over how many of them cost me--a person *not* in that group--absolutely nothing to perform. But those acts can be of great benefit to the other person. This is absolutely one of those. I fully admit, using "they/them" took a minute of getting used to, but I find myself automatically writing "them" instead of him or her in a huge number of situations now. It really didn't take much effort on my end for it to become natural, and it costs me zero.

I understand that people invest heavily in these tiny shows of their privilege, but damn, it seems like such a waste of energy.

I keep reminding myself to use the terms people prefer (I don't know many people), and, when reading the example, I was impressed at how 'invisible' it is. It also solves the minor problem of what to call people who's gender is not referred to. No more "should I use 'he' or 'she'?".

It helped me get used to singular "they" because when I first started hearing it, I was volunteering for an LGBTQ rights organization, so I heard it often enough and understood why we should use it. A transgender friend told me that, even though my pronouns are she/her, I should write them on nametags to help normalizing the idea of not assuming gender. I try to use as little gendered language as possible. I was telling a friend a funny story about a parent and child, using those words because I couldn't know. I don't use words and phrases like "mom and pop shop." It's getting easier to remember.

Even for grammar purists, APA Style Guide now accepts singular they, that makes it pretty conventional.

This reminds me of something a friend said when people asked the age-old question, "Is it a boy or a girl?"

"Probably, but that's going to be up to them."

frimble3 said:

I keep reminding myself to use the terms people prefer (I don't know many people), and, when reading the example, I was impressed at how 'invisible' it is. It also solves the minor problem of what to call people who's gender is not referred to. No more "should I use 'he' or 'she'?".

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I think "they" has been acceptable for referring to a person of undesignated gender for a while now, at least in speech and in informal language, and more and more often in articles and news stories, or in general instructions given to groups of people.

"Everyone should return to their seats" etc.

In addition to showing sensitivity to people who don't identify as either he or she, it is simply easier than writing "he or she" when referencing a person of undesignated gender, and of course it's preferable to using the archaic "he" to refer to people of all genders. When I run across people who still do the latter, it's always incredibly jarring, as if they have been in a time bubble and not noticed all the changes taking place over the past half century or so.

I suspect changes in our dictionaries won't stop some people from getting all haughty about his, any more than changes in AP style and in Chicago Manual of Style mollify the naysayers. Some are grammatical traditionalists--the sort who get annoyed when people use words like "decimate" in a modern sense instead of ancient Rome's (though these traditionalists never seem to realize how far back singular "they" goes in English). For some, I'm afraid, refusing to accept singular "they" is a microaggression.

People with good intent can screw up, though. It takes a while to retrain a lifelong habit. Still, the use of singular "they" has been ubiquitous in everyday language for a looooong time.

Barfus said:

Now I can literally throw the book at people who argue about the definition and usage of 'they'

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Singular they has been standard since at least 1300. If it's good enough for Chaucer and Austen, it's good enough for us!

And if you look at Old English, there are multiple cased of singular they; Aelfrich uses it in his Homilies.

AW Admin said:

Singular they has been standard since at least 1300. If it's good enough for Chaucer and Austen, it's good enough for us!

And if you look at Old English, there are multiple cased of singular they; Aelfrich uses it in his Homilies.

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That's one of the things that is so baffling about the whole thing. People, including some very well-respected writers, have been using it for ages. Which makes me think that most of the modern objections are really objections to gender equality (and to the expanding concept of gender in English-speaking cultures), not concerns about grammar.

Though I've seen people fiercely defend other grammar or style "rules" they were taught at some point that are just as wrong, so maybe it can also be a sort of sunk costs fallacy?

And yet they still have the audacity to accuse us of being snowflakes when they get so upset about such a non issue.