My Query Experience

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stevkaprel

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I hope I'm not covering old ground, but thought it might be helpful to share my querying experience.

Last fall, I started by querying a dozen publishers who, according to "AuthorPublish," accept queries from authors (i.e. don't only accept from agents).

I received three responses. Two were offers to publish, but they were hybrid or vanity publsihers (their business model involves requiring authors to make a financial contribution up front). One was a promising rejection in that it said my book had been read by two persons and was "intriquing."

I turned to agents, using querytracker.com (which I highly recommend). Amazingly, they have a list of some 1600 agents. I submitted over 100 queries. After three and a half months, I have received 25 rejections and no reponse from others.

Scrutinizing the data available for each agent I found that in the course of a year an agent typically receives 100 queries and goes to the next step (e.g. looking at all or more of the book) in, at most, three cases, often less. There is no telling how often a submitter is actually accepted as a client but it stands to reason it is something less than 3/100.

This should not hold anyone back. If you are tempted to quit you need to read about all the authors, including some big names, that have endured a long period of rejection as a first author.
But, obviously, you should manage expections in accordance with reality. (Keep in mind when being rejected, the target has not even read your book. You are being rejected based solely on a pitch letter. That realization is what caused me to turn to beta readers.

The other thing I found was that for those agents who haven't responded you need to wait at least six months before concluding you have been passed over.
 
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VeryBigBeard

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Most agents receive well over 100 queries in a year. Some receive more than that in a day.

I think your general conclusion still holds true, though less because of the big-name authors and more because not all queries are created equal. For the vast majority of queries--that haven't been workshopped, the MS hasn't been beta-read or possibly even revised at all--the chance of an offer is 0%. For others, the likelihood is far closer to 100%. You're not competing against every query an agent receives. If your book is, in fact, ready, it's a much slimmer (though still quite large) pile.

This feels like a good time to link Slushkiller again.

I think you're on the right track, stevkaprel, and :welcome:. Next time, though, I'd not even bother subbing to hybrid or vanity publishers at all. Do the research first.

Usually a good idea to query agents first, too, since by subbing to publishers you reduce the pool agents can sub to. Unfortunately, the same often goes for querying agents in that once you've queried, you can't really re-query that project, though some agents may look at a substantially revised version.
 

Woollybear

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I've asked a few agents directly on Twitter (Uwe Stender and one other, I believe), what their statistics are for any particular year. One or two agents post their metrics at the end of each year. (Query tracker records only what members share, a sliver of what is happening. No writer I know IRL is a member of QT.)

Anyway, I think the numbers average closer to 4,000 queries per agent per year, and agents will sign between 0 and 4 new authors in that year. That's a less than 0.1% chance that a writer will sign with a given agent--and as VBB says it is the best in that pile of 4,000 that signs.

More bleak statistics: After finding an agent, when looking for a publisher, it's a steep climb as well. Not all agented manuscripts find a home, by a long shot. My understanding is that there's a roughly 10% chance of finding a publisher with the first subbed (agented) ms, but I could be wrong.

The flip side of this is that there is a very decent chance that far more than 0.01-0.1% of queried projects are probably enjoyable reading. I'd say at least 10% of the manuscripts I beta read are unique and enjoyable enough that I'd more likely read them than the latest B&N bestseller.

We're story-tellers--and story-listeners--it's one of several reasons we've been so successful evolutionarily.
 
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SAWeiner

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At the writer's conference I attended last week, the agents said they got 50-100 queries a week. Multiply that by 52 and that's 2600 to 5200 a year to sift through.
 

lizmonster

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This. The problem with statistics is that not all queries are created equal. A well-written query and a solid few pages is going to have a much better chance at generating a request.

And the odds are still bad (although they're better), because good books are passed over all the time. The only reasonable thing to do with a rejection is to go over your query and any pages, and keep going - or not, if you've exhausted the possibilities or just don't want to wrestle with the frustration anymore.

It's also worth noting that QueryTracker stats are based on people voluntarily contributing their data. It can give you some insight, but it's not necessarily worth taking as gospel. A lot of agency web sites will have details about response times, and when you can assume that no response means no. It's always best to go to the primary source of information.

In any case, much sympathy for the frustration, stevkaprel. Many of us have been through the same thing. It's hard not to get discouraged, no matter how much logic you apply. You are not alone here.
 

bigbluepencil

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As a former acquiring editor for almost ten years who was knee deep in the slush pile(both unagented and agented subs) for a successful epub/POD with higher standards than the big print boys, my two cents is "A well-written query and a solid few pages is going to have a much better chance at generating a request.," from Lizmonster is absolutely correct and should be a major goal. And this from VeryBigBeard too: "If your book is, in fact, ready, it's a much slimmer (though still quite large) pile." It starts with the story and ends with the story for us sub receivers. And, from your pleasant query introducing yourself, showing the plot and tension in your book, by which we know we'll enjoy working with you. Data schmata. Ignore it. For us knee deepers receiving your subs, the amount of subs any given day doesn't matter. We're in the slush pile 'cause we love to read, and help writers. It's ALL about the story you're subbing, whether we'll like working with you, and if we think you have the chops to do the long haul through rounds of edits and the marketing hullabaloo. That's it for our criteria. Seriously.
If you're writing fiction, learn deep POV and to write in it. Because it sells books. Beta readers and crit partners are where it's at, and celebrate them if they're ruthless because those people truly have your best interests at heart. Be that same ruthless, caring crit partner for them as thanks. Three or four times a week, I wrote writers who'd subbed and encouraged them to get crit partners because I liked their premise and characters but the writing wasn't there yet. If you get a lengthy R &R outlining issues from an agent/pub you want, consider the points seriously. Toss them around with crit partners and beta readers. And honestly, if you don't want to make changes, that's fine. It's your book, after all, and eds get that. But relay your thoughts to that agent or ed who sent the long letter. If they're good, they'll be receptive and helpful. Believe me, with all the reading we have to do, if we took the time for a thoughtful response regarding your work, it means we want and connected to it in a wonderful way.
 
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Dan Rhys

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Those sobering stats are exactly why more and more people are turning to self-publishing (though I'm grateful I have not had to thus far). I read about an author whose advice was to pick four agents and query them over and over and over again until one of them bites. I have never tried that, but it may be worth considering.
 

mccardey

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Those sobering stats are exactly why more and more people are turning to self-publishing (though I'm grateful I have not had to thus far). I read about an author whose advice was to pick four agents and query them over and over and over again until one of them bites. I have never tried that, but it may be worth considering.


Oh my

ETA: (because it does matter). The first sentence is not correct (people self-publish for all sorts of reasons and most of them are pretty valid), and it also risks sounding somewhat disrespectful to the self-published writers on-site.

And just please, don't anyone try to follow the advice on the second sentence because it's aggressively rude to agents and seriously will never, ever, ever work.
 
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Helix

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Those sobering stats are exactly why more and more people are turning to self-publishing (though I'm grateful I have not had to thus far).

If you plan to self-publish, have a good reason to do so and do it well. There's a huge amount of info on AW. Lots of members have self-published and their threads are definitely worth reading. Know how much work it takes and how much money it will cost before you start. And -- most importantly -- be realistic about sales. Be aware of survivor bias.

I read about an author whose advice was to pick four agents and query them over and over and over again until one of them bites. I have never tried that, but it may be worth considering.

This is appalling advice. Do not do this.
 

Woollybear

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I've been delighted by the experience I am having while preparing to self publish. (Caveat: I can afford an editor, a cover artist, a formatter, ISBN numbers, and so on.) I have had to (at least temporarily) re-envision my project as a 'hobby' instead of a money-earning thing, but, I've always believed in my story and querying was simply god-awful for me... A few agents seemed to pay attention to the materials. Many (most) did not. One ghosted a full request, another sends out forms that say...

... you know what, my laundry list of experience here doesn't matter. I went through QLH. I do not have problems with grammar. The issues in slushkiller are not the issues I am dealing with--and yet few nibbles.

Querying was not joyous, period, but at some point I realized that of the 140 agents I queried, the overwhelming majority of them only looked at a minuscule fraction of the story. And, (importantly), many agents are interested in what sells.

I get it. I do. Mortgages must be paid, and every other cost of living. I get it. I'm a grown up.

But, I was willing for a long time to compromise on all manner of things in the story 'to get an agent' or 'to get a publisher.' Thing is, now? I don't have to compromise on any of that to self-publish. I can go full bore on the science. I can use footnotes. I can have one protagonist firmly in the YA space and the other firmly in A. It can be a novel that 'I don't know how to market' --I'll just tell people about it and get on with the sequel.

It feels a heck of a lot more like my own vision, and my expression, this way, and I'm really finally happy with how things are going.

:)

(Also, FWIW, and tangent, I googled 'how many self published books are there per year' and the answer is over 1,000,000. That's ~2000 or more per day.

Whoa. That's a lot of reading.)

But also, I guess we really are storytellers.
 
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mccardey

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But, I was willing for a long time to compromise on all manner of things in the story 'to get an agent' or 'to get a publisher.' Thing is, now? I don't have to compromise on any of that to self-publish. I can go full bore on the science. I can use footnotes. I can have one protagonist firmly in the YA space and the other firmly in A. It can be a novel that 'I don't know how to market' --I'll just tell people about it and get on with the sequel.

It feels a heck of a lot more like my own vision, and my expression, this way, and I'm really finally happy with how things are going.

Yes - yours is a good example of an excellent reason to self-pub. There are no issues with your writing, but your theme and your treatment of it are niche-y. Sure you could lose your theme, and treat the story differently - you're certainly good enough for that - but then you'd be all Why am I writing this?

You've been working and developing this book really diligently, really well - but it will always be niche-y - in terms of publishers; hopefully not in terms of sales.*. But niche-y is very hard to sell. Which makes diligent, sensitive, sensible, creative self-publishing a perfect fit.

The days when self-pubbing was only for books that were not up to publishing standards are way behind us.
 
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litdawg

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But, I was willing for a long time to compromise on all manner of things in the story 'to get an agent' or 'to get a publisher.' Thing is, now? I don't have to compromise on any of that to self-publish. I can go full bore on the science. I can use footnotes. I can have one protagonist firmly in the YA space and the other firmly in A. It can be a novel that 'I don't know how to market' --I'll just tell people about it and get on with the sequel.

It feels a heck of a lot more like my own vision, and my expression, this way, and I'm really finally happy with how things are going.

Hooray! Homo lectio lives!
 

mrsmig

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I read about an author whose advice was to pick four agents and query them over and over and over again until one of them bites. I have never tried that, but it may be worth considering.

No.

No.

No. Just don't. This is terrible advice.
 

quicklime

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Those sobering stats are exactly why more and more people are turning to self-publishing (though I'm grateful I have not had to thus far). I read about an author whose advice was to pick four agents and query them over and over and over again until one of them bites. I have never tried that, but it may be worth considering.


kids at home: When you're eleven, twelve, pick the 4 girls you most want to marry.

ask them out. Again. And again.

Don't take no for an answer. Don't broaden your horizons. Plow that field, then plow it again, then fire up the tractor for a third trip if need be.....keep trying, consent is the sort of thing fancy coastal liberals talk about....just work those four and ignore the broader world at large, your approach, or anything else...



ok, kids, this ends in a restraining order or a tragedy covered to exhaustion on the local news. Don't fucking do it.



Querying might not be the exact same, but it's got more than a whiff of similarity.




Pick your 4 dream agents. Query them, by all means. Hell, maybe you even have six agents...or only three. And if they don't want you, look at multiple things. But there is a goddamn MILE between "I queried four agents, three whole times," and "ok, time to self-pub."


Figure out what you want to do. Then work at doing it. And if it doesn't work, think about WHAT you might do to change your little world....maybe it is changing your query for those four until it engages (or your sample pages, if you got a request but no offer)….maybe it involves adding a few more agents (is having an agent from "Tier 2" worse than none at all? Maybe. Maybe not. But make that decision, instead of using some unwritten rule of thumb to decide for you). then make whatever adjustments you can to get where YOU want to be.

We're all trying here, and Dan's opinion is surely worth every bit as much as mine, but I can't see a place in the real world where "take your 4 favorite choices, and if they don't work, fuck it, quit and find something else" is great advice. Queries, job interviews, dating, trying new foods, whatever....it is always vastly more complicated than that. Doesn't mean the ultimate decision to self-pub or whatever else is inherently wrong, but I don't get real onboard with any completely to-script rule, particularly with zero context. I'd recommend anyone here make a decision based on a LOT of factors, beyond "query X agents then move on to an entirely different model....."
 
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Calla Lily

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*puts Mod Hat on*

*rereads the last several posts*

*refrains from non-PG rated language*

*realizes how obvious is the amazingly bad advice and the appallingly disrespectful dismissal of writers who choose to self-publish*

*deep breath*

We are better than this, gang. RYFW. Don't make me dust off the Ruler of Doom.

Closing thread.
 
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