We're Getting Down to Close Family Only. Bolton Out.

frimble3

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And in humans, I sometimes think that 'Alpha' merely stands for the first letter of another word that doesn't usually get used in scientific works. Unless it's a proctology manual.
 
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Roxxsmom

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LOL, with canines anyways. Humans (including werewolves and shifters) it probably still applies.

I'm not sure there's any consensus about what it means with humans socially, let alone in terms of biology. I've seen enough arguments about alpha male characters among romance readers to realize we don't all have the same definition. I think of alpha male romance heroes as the male characters who are abusive, jealous and attempt to dominate/control the female main character--you know, the ones where they guy grabs the woman and sexually assaults her forces kisses on her and rips her bodice etc., and she protests but then goes limp, even as her mind is reeling with outrage.

But others say they are simply male characters who are successful and self confident , and they say that true alpha guys respect independent and strong women because they aren't threatened by them.

Regardless, Trump isn't anyone's idea of a romance hero, aside from being rich. He lacks any kind of social graces, hasn't aged at all well, isn't capable of loving anyone but himself, and is dumb as the proverbial box of rocks.

As for werewolves, I've seen too many werewolf stories where misunderstandings about how wolf packs work applied to the human hierarchies. It's sort of put me off fantasy with werewolves, actually. It would be fun to see a story where a werewolf "pack" is actually a married couple with their children and teen/young adult kids who haven't left home yet.
 
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Albedo

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I'm not sure there's any consensus about what it means with humans socially, let alone in terms of biology. I've seen enough arguments about alpha male characters among romance readers to realize we don't all have the same definition. I think of alpha male romance heroes as the male characters who are abusive, jealous and attempt to dominate/control the female main character--you know, the ones where they guy grabs the woman and sexually assaults her forces kisses on her and rips her bodice etc., and she protests but then goes limp, even as her mind is reeling with outrage.

But others say they are simply male characters who are successful and self confident , and they say that true alpha guys respect independent and strong women because they aren't threatened by them.

Regardless, Trump isn't anyone's idea of a romance hero, aside from being rich. He lacks any kind of social graces, hasn't aged at all well, isn't capable of loving anyone but himself, and is dumb as the proverbial box of rocks.

As for werewolves, I've seen too many werewolf stories where misunderstandings about how wolf packs work applied to the human hierarchies. It's sort of put me off fantasy with werewolves, actually. It would be fun to see a story where a werewolf "pack" is actually a married couple with their children and teen/young adult kids who haven't left home yet.
Lol! And werewolf adults in their twenties refusing to leave the home. Layer of human bones and empty Mountain Dew bottles in the basement growing ever deeper. You don't know what it's like to be a were in this economy, Mum.
 

Introversion

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Regardless, Trump isn't anyone's idea of a romance hero, aside from being rich.

Or so he says. I'm disinclined to take his word for it.

He lacks any kind of social graces, hasn't aged at all well, isn't capable of loving anyone but himself, and is dumb as the proverbial box of rocks.

His one true skill appears to be knowing how to fleece sheep. And lord, I had no idea so many of my fellow citizens were this dumb, to fall prey to such an obvious grifter.
 

Kjbartolotta

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I'm not sure there's any consensus about what it means with humans socially, let alone in terms of biology.

I'll admit that my patience with primates is lacking these days, so I'm not nearly as read up on their social structure. :)
 
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The English idiom "he got the axe" will be soon replaced by the American-English idiom "he met the Trumps".

It is a matter of time also till US federal employees be diagnosed with Post-Trump-Stress-Disorder, i.e. insomnia caused by the fear of losing your job (accompanied by the vision of Trump yelling on your face).
 
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ElaineA

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Wow, I managed a pretty spectacular derail of my own thread (if I do say so myself). :hooray:

Back to the NSA...I heard something yesterday that chilled my blood and goes right to the heart of my fears: the head of the NSA is not subject to Senate confirmation. POTUS can appoint whoever he wants, and my money is on Jared. If he doesn't already have full security clearance, Trump could demand he be granted it.

How's that for a chilling story line?
 
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By the way I do not like at all the comparisons between Trump and Hitler, Trump and Johnson.

From the many documentaries I have seen, Hitler had an irresistible power to persuade everyone close to him, even when he was 100% wrong. On Trump administration very few are convinced even when Trump is right... I doubt whether a process of convincing the others takes place at the White House right now.

In the case of Johnson, he is unpredictable and aggressive, but he is faraway from being a narcissist.

You see Trump 30 seconds on the screen and you realize that the guy is a narcissist, who has lost any kind of contacts with the world that lies outside of his body. To have a narcissist become the president of the US through democratic means is really a question that should plague social psychologists for many decades.
 

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You see Trump 30 seconds on the screen and you realize that the guy is a narcissist, who has lost any kind of contacts with the world that lies outside of his body.

Apparently a majority of Republican voters either don't see it that way, or don't care. The same kind of populist fervor you saw at Hitler rallies, you can see now at *rump rallies.

(The people in his administration and the U.S. Congress can see that he's a know-nothing mouth-breather, but they're in the "don't care" category as he's allowing them to get their cherished Xmas list checked-off, and/or give them the resume boost to get them lucrative jobs at large companies, Fox News, etc.)
 

cbenoi1

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The English idiom "he got the axe" will be soon replaced by the American-English idiom "he met the Trumps".

More like "he's been Trump'd" which will also encompass scammed, conned, defrauded, hacked (when talking about elections), falsified, tweet storm'd, bullied into submission, birthgate'd, defamed, fake news'd, etc.

-cb
 

mccardey

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From the many documentaries I have seen, Hitler had an irresistible power to persuade everyone close to him, even when he was 100% wrong
Oh I think the Magical Hitler With Magical Powers thing has been debunked for some time. People believed what they wanted to believe, saw what they wanted to see, ignored what they felt overwhelmed by. The only "magical" was the wave when people who already supported him started trying to outdo each other in order to win more favour (and keep their jobs).

On Trump administration very few are convinced even when Trump is right...

It depends which part of the Administration you're talking about. The White House seems to be currently split into Republican White House and Trump Populist White House. The Republicans don't believe in him, but the Trump Populists know they don't have to believe in a word he says, and neither does he. They just need to disrupt the system - and they certainly believe he is doing that.

In the case of Johnson, he is unpredictable and aggressive, but he is faraway from being a narcissist.

I'd need a source for that - but in any case, he'll do until one comes along... ;)

You see Trump 30 seconds on the screen and you realize that the guy is a narcissist, who has lost any kind of contacts with the world that lies outside of his body. To have a narcissist become the president of the US through democratic means is really a question that should plague social psychologists for many decades.

Yes, yes and Hell, yes!!
 
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Kjbartolotta

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Oh I think the Magical Hitler With Magical Powers thing has been debunked for some time. People believed what they wanted to believe, saw what they wanted to see, ignored what they felt overwhelmed by.

I sometimes wonder if the 'secret sauce' with dictators is that they're utterly humorless.
 

mccardey

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I sometimes wonder if the 'secret sauce' with dictators is that they're utterly humorless.
Which is a (fairly) diagnostic element in Narcissistic Personality Disorder (from what I've read).

ETA: I am not a medical professional. Although, if I was boy howdie, there'd be some changes happening 'round the place, let me tell you...
 
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MaeZe

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The English idiom "he got the axe" will be soon replaced by the American-English idiom "he met the Trumps".

It is a matter of time also till US federal employees be diagnosed with Post-Trump-Stress-Disorder, i.e. insomnia caused by the fear of losing your job (accompanied by the vision of Trump yelling on your face).
I don't think you have to be a federal employee to suffer from this. I suspect we are looking at a pending epidemic.
 
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@ mccardey

I know many people in UK are frustrated with BoJO right now... they call him a liar, an hypocrite, and so on (things that many Americans find in Trump). But I have seen different face expressions in BoJo. This is the reason why I believe BoJo is not a narcissist.

In the case of Trump I have seen always the same face expression, the last three years. This guy has one single face expression for everything and everyone (Ivanka, Kim, nukes, mass shootings, presidential inauguration, firings, hurricanes). It is hard for me to believe that Trump can tell the difference of a situation from another... the guy lives within his body only.

With regard to Bolton firing, I think Emannuel Macron should be blamed. As a French, he reads a lot from Freud and he understands better than anyone Donald Trump. He invited the guy to an undeclared dinner, told Trump things he loved to hear, hypnotized him, brought Iran's foreign minister in the conversation and within one hour Macron changed three years of US foreign policy. Two weeks later Bolton got fired...
 
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ElaineA

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With regard to Bolton firing, I think Emannuel Macron should be blamed. As a French, he reads a lot from Freud and he understands better than anyone Donald Trump. He invited the guy to an undeclared dinner, told Trump things he loved to hear, hypnotized him, brought Iran's foreign minister in the conversation and within one hour Macron changed three years of US foreign policy. Two weeks later Bolton got fired...

Nah, that was a bog standard sycophant's duel. Mike Pompeo won. And Donald Trump has *always* been an isolationist. He would never have gone to war with Iran. Bolton thought he was smarter than Trump, thought he could convince a man he saw as vapid, but he underestimated the ox-headedness of the willfully uninformed.
 

mccardey

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@ mccardey

I know many people in UK are frustrated with BoJO right now... they call him a liar, an hypocrite, and so on (things that many Americans find in Trump). But I have seen different face expressions in BoJo. This is the reason why I believe BoJo is not a narcissist.
I'm not sure I understand. Narcissism doesn't preclude facial expression...

Oh - I think I get it. You mean BoJo has shown empathy in his facial expressions? That wouldn't be enough to convince me, because his political actions have been so mendacious and so self-serving and because narcissists can be very, very convincing. But I think there is a difference in degree between the two of them.
 
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lizmonster

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With regard to Bolton firing, I think Emannuel Macron should be blamed. As a French, he reads a lot from Freud and he understands better than anyone Donald Trump. He invited the guy to an undeclared dinner, told Trump things he loved to hear, hypnotized him, brought Iran's foreign minister in the conversation and within one hour Macron changed three years of US foreign policy. Two weeks later Bolton got fired...

You're missing...a lot of history and context here. Try Jim Wright's essay on Bolton instead.

Also: No, Macron didn't manipulate anyone into anything.
 
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I was trying to be a little creative, puting my imagination to work about Trump-Macron dinner....

Anyway, the people who write the newspapers, and are speaking about internal conflicts in Trump's administration, may have more info than me.
 

mccardey

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I was trying to be a little creative, puting my imagination to work about Trump-Macron dinner....

Anyway, the people who write the newspapers, and are speaking about internal conflicts in Trump's administration, may have more info than me.

A lot depends on which books and which newspapers - but no-one is denying there's turmoil in the Trump White House, so you're safe there... ;)
 

Roxxsmom

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OMG, the expression on Bolton's face in this picture is worth a thousand words. The guy looks like he just took a bite of a tootsie roll and discovered it was a turd. Or as if *rump just laid a Geneva-Convention-violating "greenie." Of course, simply opening his mouth creates a similar room-clearing effect.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/18/bolton-trump-foreign-policy-1501932
 
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