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Looking for Writing Guide/Mentor

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DanielSTJ

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Hello again WF!

I'm considering all options with publishing and, generally, believe I need a bit of a guide/mentor in the art and craft. I am looking for someone to help make me a better writer. I think, for all purposes considered, that I will delving into the self-publishing domain. I write poetry, short stories, and novels. As of yet, I have one published credit in a small start-up magazine to my name and want to accelerate my progress. I really think that my dream of being a writer can be done in 15-20 years if I plan this out right and I'm looking for someone in for the long haul that could generally help me with my work. This can range from anything from bouncing around ideas (or helping me refine my own) to collaborative writing to everything and all aspects. I'm a 29 year-old male from Canada looking to make my mark on the literary scene and I really want to improve. I will be getting a budget for my work and hope someone would be kind enough to assess my work and help me figure out (especially) how to market it- I can do research, but it's the most difficult aspect for me. I want to fully go the self-publishing route. It really sounds like the right thing for me. It's like being a director, but of literature! :D

NOW, I will post some work in the coming days in this topic and around the forum so that you (kind reader) will have a chance to see where I'm at. I don't mind starting from the bottom and I know that practice makes perfect. My ideal, dream-like goal is to make enough money to rent a cheap apartment and live frugally- additionally, I will be getting some financial help from my father. That is it. My goals don't involve sports cars, fancy dinners, mesmerizing holidays- no, no, no. I wish to live just on the cusp of poverty, yet able to eat and pay simple bills. I really want this and I hope that someone can help guide me. I feel my biggest weakness is understanding how to write something to a specific audience and then marketing it appropriately.

P.S. I have several novels completed in rough drafts, a bunch of short stories, and more poetry than I know what to do with.

P.S.S. PM me if you want me to send you synopsis' of projects and/or a list. I'd be more than willing to oblige.
 
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stevkaprel

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Couldn't help but reply though I'm not right for mentoring since I'm a retired lawyer who has just written his first book. But I was an aspiring writer when I was your age and have an uncle that was a successful writer (William Campbell Gault, you good google the name) whose career I am familiar with so figured I would share based on that. My youthful ambition to be a writer was based on my admiration for Uncle Bill. But I was aware that he wrote for decades before getting to the point at which he could make a living with it. To begin, I just started writing stuff, submitting it and collecting rejection slips. Based on my uncle's experience I was aware that breaking in was a long shot at best so decided I needed a back up plan and that's were lawyering came in. Becoming a lawyer and keeping up the writing along with other life challenges turned out to be too much. Turns out that in my case writing was a pipe dream rather than obsession as it must have been in my uncle's case because he persevered for years, working a various menial jobs. Then there was a sale to the Saturday Evening Post (ten cents per word) and not long thereafter an award from the Mystery Writers of America for the best first mystery of the year. I don't know if there's a lesson in all this but I have the feeling that
you will get more from trial and error and perseverence than any formal writing instruction.
 

Gillhoughly

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You become published by sending stuff out and learning from the rejections. A mentor can help, but so can a writing group where you can get multiple eyes on your work and contribute to help others. I got better at my own writing while giving feedback.

Writing is a solitary journey and few of us do it as a living, even the lonely garret cliche living, which I can attest, hand to heart, absolutely sucks. It's hard to get much writing done when you're cold, hungry, and hate the day job.

Two NYT bestsellers I know kept their day jobs long after they were seen as financially stable from their book earnings. One of them did make the break to write full time, but he had a year's income saved and had paid off and cut up all his credit cards.

If you want to make money from writing, then go into the adult romance/erotica genre. I know several writers who have done well there! Use a pen name, enjoy what you produce. If you have fun, the readers will have fun. They know when a writer is just phoning it in.

Yes, men can and do write erotica. I've another friend who put himself through college back in the day writing porn books for a smut publisher for 500 bucks a pop. (It was the 60s and that was a LOT of cash at the time.)

My initial goal starting out was writing, submitting, and selling my first book, doing rewrites each time it came back, getting feedback, sending it out again and again. I wanted it to sell tomorrow, not 15 years down the line after I'd learned my craft. THAT goal remains an ongoing process.

My mentors are writers who turn out the books I love to read over and over to learn how they do it. The library was my second home because of Ray Bradbury. He could not afford college, so he read the local library instead. That worked out for him. He sold his first story at 20 and kept moving forward, reading for hours each day, and writing for hours each day.

That book took a year to finish, two years of submissions and 25 rewrites -- and it sold. It sold along with five other books the publisher wanted from me. It did not net me much, but my career was started.

I kept my day job in retail, working for minimum because it paid the bills and rent.

If I am allowed to play mentor for the length of this post, I would suggest a reassessment of your above stated goals, simply because life never cooperates with our plans. If it had done so for me I would have secured a million dollar deal on that first novel, bought an island, and employed a herd of cheerful cabana boys to rub my feet and feed me chocolates. My book would have become a film and spawned a nice franchise of sequels, certainly a TV series.

Instead, I finished those other five books and wrote others, scored an agent, kept my day jobs for the next 25 years, one of which was being a freelance editor. I developed my skills in that area by going to a lot of writing groups. :)

In short, it's wise not to get fixated on one single way of doing things, whatever work you do. My goal now is write what I love and enjoy the journey, whether it leads to feast or famine.

The following is my litmus test for writers. You take it seriously, print it, tape over the desk, and read it once a day or . . . ignore it.

I've been reading this since 1993. It works, especially rule nine.

-----------------------------------


Joe Bob’s America by Joe Bob Briggs


About five years ago, people started asking me how to write. Friends mostly.

"I’ve got this great idea for a book. All I need to know is how to get it in shape.”

"Or I’m planning to be a writer. Do you have any advice on where I could start out?”

Or sometimes I would get invitations to speak at writers conferences or journalism conventions or university seminars on weighty topics like “The Modern Humorous Essay.” And I would go to cocktail parties where bitter white wine was served in plastic glasses by women with two last names. And, for a while, when I first got these invitations, I would actually accept them and go spend a day spouting off about this thing and that thing and the other thing. And people would take notes on the stuff I was saying. And when aspiring writers wrote me letters, I would write them back, volunteering suggestions on how to write and when to write and so on and so forth. And the aspiring writers would write me back, so grateful for what I had told them.

And then, one day, I realized...

I didn’t know what the heck I was talking about.

If you met me during this Blabbermouth Period of my life, then you already realize, of course, that I didn’t know what the heck I was talking about. But this realization didn’t hit me until much, much later.

Now I’m trying to make up for it. I know practically nothing about the science, or art, or craft of writing. But this column contains everything that I do know beyond a doubt.

(1) The way you become a writer is you write. Every day. No exceptions.

Nobody believes this. Everybody wants to believe in something called talent or inspiration or the knack for it. Maybe there is such a thing, but it has nothing to do with becoming a writer.

So when someone says “I wanna be a writer, what do I do?” The first thing I say is “Go and write for two hours a day for two weeks, and then bring me what you’ve written.”

To a professional writer, this is a very light writing schedule. But ninety-nine percent of them vanish forever.

It’s too mundane. Nobody believes it.

(2) What you write is not important.

Nobody believes this, either. Most people think “If I could just get the right idea, then the writing would flow. That's like saying “If Nolan Ryan would just throw me the right pitch, then I could hit home runs for the Yankees.” Before you get the chance to face the big pitch from Nolan Ryan, you have to hit 200,000 other pitches. Every day. No exceptions.

The idea doesn’t matter. The practice matters.

(3) Nobody is going to steal your idea.

Everyone who is about to write a book is afraid that they will tell someone (like me) the topic, and six months later Doubleday will be bringing out a 200,000 first printing on the same topic, but written by Norman Mailer, and the aspiring writer’s chance for celebrity will be dashed.

Listen up. You don’t get widely plagiarized until you’re widely published--and then it doesn’t matter. Trust me on this.

(4) There are no new ideas. There are only individual expressions of old ideas. If you and I write the same thing, it will come out in two versions so different that no one will notice, but both versions will be extremely similar to things written 3,000 years ago. To put it another way, your imagination doesn’t belong to you—it’s just something you’re entrusted with for a time.

(5) Be honest. It always works.

(6) Don’t listen to anybody’s opinions about what you write, especially your friends and family. (I don’t mean ignore these people. I mean listen to the voice inside you that says “That’s good and that stinks.” It’s the only voice that doesn’t lie.)

(7) Never be afraid to write something that stinks. The more stinky stuff you put out, the more risks you take. And the more risks you take, the better chance you have of creating something beautiful. No great writer has ever been a wimp.

(8) If you can explain how to write a book, then you don’t know how to write one. If you can write a book, then you won’t be able to explain how you did it. It’s stupid, but it’s true.

There are no rules about what to write, how to write it, or what will sell. Never ask a book publisher what will sell. They’re the last to know.

(9) There are no membership cards or initiation rites for this profession. Anybody with a sheet of paper can do it. So you become a writer on the day you say “I’m a writer.” It doesn’t matter where your income comes from. The work you take joy from is writing.

(10) Nobody can tell you how to write, but there are certain things you can do to get to a place where you can write. There are three of them:

Write every day.

Write every day.

Write every day.

This is all I know.

--------------------------------------------
 
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Enlightened

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After two years of learning, I learned no, one source is complete with instruction. Learning takes time (a requirement of becoming skilled at craft). It's a multi-phasic process.... Once you master the art of storytelling, you move on to other things such as mastering self-publishing, marketing, and so on.

I don't know if one person is going to be able to mentor you through the learning process. This is why they have multiple classes in college-degree programs; i.e. you learn a little from many, different professors in different fields. Like a college education, you learn a little about general education, about your major, about your minor.... You may even take some additional classes online, at a community college, or other sources. Each source gives you different information and different ways of seeing the same thing sometimes.

For me, with learning the 3-Act structure (for example), I had to learn from novel-writing resources as well as resources in screenwriting. They often offered the same information, but different perspectives. Never was one source complete in and of itself.

If you want to learn about Self-Publishing, maybe this YouTuber's channel is a good place to start: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Qu8GvA0lUm3GmzBqmmfeg

In screenwriting, one information source noted there are three phases to making movies: creating/finalizing the script; production; post-production. The interviewee suggested, as a producer, he was allowed to offer his opinion on many different elements of the process, but he never interfered with the actors, directors, and so on, from doing their jobs.

I think of learning how to write, self-publish, market/promote, and so on, as a multi-phase process. You have to produce, direct, act, write,.... You learn to do a lot of things; i.e. become a jack of all trades. It all takes time.

I am still learning and two years passed since I began learning. I believe there are no quick fixes with multi-phase projects such as learning the aforementioned.

I'd begin with assessing what you know. I'd develop what you then need to learn to achieve your goals. Take each task one step at a time. Evaluate, after each task, how you feel about what you know of that one task (and how it may tie in to other elements learned).
 
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Muppster

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I will post some work in the coming days in this topic and around the forum so that you (kind reader) will have a chance to see where I'm at.
Post a link to some poetry and I can get an idea if I can be helpful.
 

Putputt

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This can range from anything from bouncing around ideas (or helping me refine my own) to collaborative writing to everything and all aspects. I'm a 29 year-old male from Canada looking to make my mark on the literary scene and I really want to improve. I will be getting a budget for my work and hope someone would be kind enough to assess my work and help me figure out (especially) how to market it- I can do research, but it's the most difficult aspect for me. I want to fully go the self-publishing route. It really sounds like the right thing for me. It's like being a director, but of literature! :D

It sounds to me like you need two different kinds of mentors: one to help with the craft aspect, and another to help with the business aspect of self publishing. I'm drowning in work and MSs so I can't help with either, BUT I've been toying with the idea of self publishing myself, and have been reading a ton of books on the subject. They've been extremely helpful, especially as a starting point to learn what there is to learn before launching your own books. I highly recommend:

Joanna Penn's nonfic books, especially HOW TO MARKET A BOOK and SUCCESSFUL SELF-PUBLISHING
Rachel Aaron's 2,000 to 10,000 omg if I could give this book a hug I would. Just reading the first chapter alone has helped double my daily word count, which is amazing.
Chris Fox's WRITE TO MARKET and LAUNCH TO MARKET. My one complaint about Chris Fox is that he likes to recycle a lot of the information in his books, so I feel like once I've read one book of his, I've kind of read the rest. YMMV.

And of course, there are also a lot of free resources out there for SPers. Kboards I've heard is a glut of information (I have yet to find the time to join myself!) and Joanna Penn has a podcast where she talks about SPing. There's so much information out there the trick is finding the time to go through all of it! Maybe you can let me know which places are best for SPing when you're done. :D
 

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I can't help with publishing industry and processes but i am finding alot of information about where to go for newsletters and submissions sites and such.

What genre of short stories and novels do you write? (I tend toward 3 different genres, no limits.)
What age range is your targeted audience?

With a few exceptions, I would be very pleased to look over short stories and novels to give you feedback. Message me if you want to talk about it.
 

DanielSTJ

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Wow, this is actually really helpful everyone! I understand that the craft is important. I want to start slow and do it right. I'm nearly thirty, but I still think there's time. ;)

Stev: Thank you for the anecdote and the advice.

Gill: Such great advice! I thank you greatly! I will return to your post as I continue on in my journey. I think it will continue to inspire me!

Enlightened: I will check out that YouTube channel and I thank you for your kind and important input! :)

PuttPutt: Thanks for the resources! I LOVE your avatar by the way! XD

Ubriel: I'm understanding that genre is important. I write each story as its own and then try to market it methinks. I understand that this is not conventional, so I'll try focusing in a few areas (to try and generate a flow) and then work on genres that I am unfamiliar with. This way, for me, the spark of inspiration never dies.

You've all been great. Really! The good thing is I'm being helped financially by my father so I have A LOT of free time to dedicate towards this- more, I assume, than the average writer. I have to use this to my advantage, so I will check out all these resources and start posting some material on here. My first story for here, *GASP*, is coming on tonight. It's not the first I have written, not by a long shot, but it's the first that I really think people might enjoy reading.
 

Norman Mjadwesch

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Hi Daniel,

As others here have said, there are no shortcuts and no guarantees when it comes to carving out a career in writing. What I would like to say, is that I was much as you were at the same age, but that’s quite a few years ago now. I was working only as much as I needed to in order to pay the essential bills (I actually liked the minimalist lifestyle, still do) and I spent a lot of time writing. A lot. But planning for the future doesn’t always pan out too well. Life happens. You meet someone, you suffer tragedy, you lose your job: any or all of those things, or combinations, or none… you can’t predict any of it, but it will affect the path you’ve chosen.

Myself? I had your aspirations, similar support networks, the drive to succeed. Those plans didn’t come to pass in the way I’d envisaged. But I kept going. It was only earlier this week that I was talking about this with my best friend and, because besties have a way to speak plainly when they need to, this is what I was told:

“You’re living every writers dream. You’ve got the most amazing place to write: the space, the time, the view, all of the comfort you really need – so many precious things that others don’t have access to, and an unanticipated financial windfall to tide you over for the time being. Yes, there are downsides to your life, and nothing is ever going to feel like success until you recalibrate your expectations, but you need to understand that what you have is an opportunity to pursue that goal because that’s who you are, and who your loved ones want you to be.”

Or yanno, words to that effect.

I guess we all aim high, and too many of us fail to attain the levels that we strive for. Writing is both a personal journey, and something that we simply must do; it’s as vital to us as food and drink, air and [redacted].

I have the best critique partners I could ever wish to have, including some here on this forum; I’m a member of a local writers’ group; I engage with my local library and am beginning to become more involved in the local arts community; I interact with aspiring writers who look to me for advice even though I’m not the person who can provide that advice. Writing, to me, is as much about helping other writers as it is about learning the trade. Without that contact with like-minded people, I’d feel alone in the world.

So I write. I keep writing. There are ups and downs. Last month I was shortlisted in a writing competition and then today received a rejection for other work I’d submitted (which I thought was the better writing of the two). It’s just what we do. Some writers are successful, others never scale those heights. There are members of this forum whose work I’ve read which I find to be exquisite – I can’t even begin to compete with their technical standard – and yet they can’t get a publishing contract. All I can offer you is encouragement, and even if your hopes aren’t realised, you’ll never know if you give up.

And also: Canada is too damned cold, my friend. And you have bears. That’s gotta suck.
 
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Paul Lamb

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Just as everyone has said or hinted, writing is a personal journey; there is no one size that fits all. Although I was writing constantly, I didn't publish my first story until I was 33 years old, and then 10 years passed before my second story was published. Realize that no one else's experience is going to be your experience. Take all advice as what worked for them and see how it fits you.

As for mentoring, I'd recommend going light on that. A good mentor may help you find your style, but a bad mentor will try to direct your style. At the very least, try to get input for several sources. One route you might consider is a continuing education class (what we call them in the U.S.) at your local community college. It's likely affordable, likely in the evenings, and likely taught by a published poet or writer. I have always been skeptical of writing courses outside of academia. What I've seen of them is replete with conventional writing wisdom, and they often seem more like a revenue stream for the teacher than a work of love. Find some writing groups in your community to share and discuss your work. The local college English Department may be able to direct you to some. Your library might. Try Meetup.org to see if there is a group in your area. Or just get to know a few writers and start your own group.

Most of all, keep writing, even if you think it's junk. Just keep doing it.
 

DanielSTJ

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Further great advice! I much liked your post Norman, and you too Paul. This is invigorating me and making me want to keep trying. The encouragement and sage words on kindly tidings is making me believe the dream is worth pursuing. Thanks a lot you two-- and everyone else. You've done so much.
 

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Agree that this thread has been awesome.

The encouragement and sage words on kindly tidings is making me believe the dream is worth pursuing.

Curious: do you not believe this for yourself--and all by yourself? If not, no one's words here are going to matter, not for the long-run. You need to figure out exactly why you write and care enough to pursue this, if you want to stay writing for the long-, long-, long-run. Otherwise, you're going to run out of steam in X or YY years, give or take. And that's even if you have dozens of publications under your belt, a few award-winning, a few bestselling. And you won't be happy with where you are, maybe even who you are.

So, all basic encouragement aside, take a deep dive into why you write, why you're pursuing this. It doesn't have to be today, when you're so young and so keen. But don't put it off for too long. That's my suggestion, take it or forget it.

Good luck!
 
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mccardey

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You need to figure out exactly why you write and care enough to pursue this, if you want to stay writing for the long-, long-, long-run. Otherwise, you're going to run out of steam in X or YY years, give or take. And that's even if you have dozens of publications under your belt, a few award-winning, a few bestselling. And you won't be happy with where you are, maybe even who you are.

So, all basic encouragement aside, take a deep dive into why you write, why you're pursuing this. It doesn't have to be today, when you're so young and so keen. But don't put it off for too long. That's my suggestion, take it or forget it.

Good luck!

Do you, though? I don't know - I never have. I've always just written stuff. I think you write if you can't help it. Publishing though - especially self-publishing which I expect is far, far more difficult and much more work - perhaps that's worth some self-interrogation. But I think writing just sort of - happens.

I might be wrong. More likely, it's not a one-size-fits-all...
 

newauth

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Do you, though? I don't know - I never have. I've always just written stuff. I think you write if you can't help it. Publishing though - especially self-publishing which I expect is far, far more difficult and much more work - perhaps that's worth some self-interrogation. But I think writing just sort of - happens.

I might be wrong. More likely, it's not a one-size-fits-all...

True, it may not be a one-size-fits-all.

For me, if I'm expending so much effort on something, anything, I need to know why. Many-a-times, the answer is not clear and not accessible. But I have found that writing, writing well, is one of the hard things, a hard thing with no clear path to being able to support oneself (unless, of course, your goal is to write commercially; write for profitability only; write merely to sell, sell, sell, no matter what the costs to you, personally).

For me, if I'm expending great effort on something difficult, I feel like it needs to be concordant with who I am. If it's not, then, sooner or later, there will come a reckoning. I somehow mistakenly assume that this is true for all, always. But that may not be the case for everyone, everywhere. :)
 

mccardey

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True, it may not be a one-size-fits-all.

For me, if I'm expending so much effort on something, anything, I need to know why. Many-a-times, the answer is not clear and not accessible. But I have found that writing, writing well, is one of the hard things, a hard thing with no clear path to being able to support oneself (unless, of course, your goal is to write commercially; write for profitability only; write merely to sell, sell, sell, no matter what the costs to you, personally).

For me, if I'm expending great effort on something difficult, I feel like it needs to be concordant with who I am. If it's not, then, sooner or later, there will come a reckoning. I somehow mistakenly assume that this is true for all, always. But that may not be the case for everyone, everywhere. :)

is writing effortful? Discuss ☺️

Eta: but actually not here, because it’s a derail. When I get back to my ‘puter I’ll post a new thread. (Sorry, Daniel. And I’m happy to help in any way I can - except not with self pub because I don’t know anything about that.)
 
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