Paddle-boarding through a sea of plastic

I think the only way manufacturers will listen is if their bottom line is badly hurt. The same for most businesses. And that takes consumers cooperating -- people power. Which consumers have in abundance but it's so decentralised it's unrecognisable.

True.

And I've been doing that; I've also been handing the plastic wrapping back to the shops if I have no other choice.

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"---a Sikh greeting)

I've been going for bulk carrots and picking individual heads of romaine in the produce section, rather than bagged varieties.

For years, I've been making bean and veggie soups in a slow cooker. Beans purchased in bulk (organic where I can) and veggies picked individually in the produce section.

Also, you can reuse plastic bags. I have a three-prong rack, wash the used bags and hang them up on it.

Small stuff, but...

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

I saw a piece on TV about how China used to take our plastic waste (recycled), but they stopped. They do not want to be known as the world's garbage dump anymore. Someone at a recycling plant said the plastic isn't being recycled. It is sent overseas (to poor countries) and they dump it wherever they like (like in the rivers and oceans). Microplastics get in the water column and become distributed in rain and snow in places like Antarctica. We eat microplastics in sea salt, fish, and so on. I changed to land-based salts for my cooking as a result, some time ago.

Scary stuff.

Siri Kirpal said:

Also, you can reuse plastic bags. I have a three-prong rack, wash the used bags and hang them up on it.

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Tbh, there's no need for plastic bags. In so many countries, the idea that you would need to put three zucchini in a plastic bag and six oranges in another plastic bag and then take your plastic bags to the checkout and have them put in another plastic bag is just - ludicrous.

Use up the last of your plastic bags as Siri Kirpal says - and then make yourself some bags, and Take your canvas bags to the supermarket. put stuff in them. carry it home.

If your country isn't doing this yet, it will be soon - and you'll feel really silly for being the very last people to the party.

My local grocery store delivers - they bring your order to your door in a tub, and the deliveryfolk will either stick your stuff into your reusable bags to carry to the kitchen, or the bulky stuff is just plopped where you indicate. (Box of detergent, etc.)
They used to use plastic bags, but, hey, even big monolithic companies can change.

Enlightened said:

I saw a piece on TV about how China used to take our plastic waste (recycled), but they stopped. They do not want to be known as the world's garbage dump anymore. Someone at a recycling plant said the plastic isn't being recycled. It is sent overseas (to poor countries) and they dump it wherever they like (like in the rivers and oceans). Microplastics get in the water column and become distributed in rain and snow in places like Antarctica. We eat microplastics in sea salt, fish, and so on. I changed to land-based salts for my cooking as a result, some time ago.

Scary stuff.

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The Philippines just shipped shipping containers full of plastic waste back to Canada. The world is no longer our garbage dump.

Bags are just the most visible plastic. It's in every-bloody-thing.

Helix said:

Bags are just the most visible plastic. It's in every-bloody-thing.

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Sure, but since they are - let's start with that. And move on. Quickly.

We really need to stop using plastic disposables, especially for things that are not critical to the health and well being of people. Banning plastic bags and straws is a start, but those are a drop in the bucket compared to all the crap that's going in the ocean.

I've been researching alternatives to plastic packaging when I can, but it's a daunting task. It's one thing to give up drinks in plastic bottles--relatively easy most of the time. But even produce comes in plastic now. It's impossible to get some kinds at the store in bulk.

And then there are all the foods, toiletries, cosmetics, household goods, office supplies, and all manner of goods made from plastic or packaged in disposable plastic. I found a deodorant that comes in cardboard tubes, but it's a lot more expensive, and I have to order it online. There are some tooth powders that come in tins, but none have fluoride (I guess they figure if you care about the planet you don't care about your tooth enamel). And again, they have to be ordered online and are pretty pricey. I've heard there's some polymer made from sugar cane that is like the plastic used for shampoo bottles and some cosmetics, but I haven't seen any used for the kinds of products I buy at the local grocery store or Target.

And trying to find substitutes for even some of the products I use has been, argh!

Most people don't have the money and patience to do this. And the thing is, products that replace plastic need to be lightweight, because one thing plastic packaging has done is save on fuel for shipping (also important).

Relying on people to voluntarily avoid plastic packaging is unrealistic. Relying on industries (aside from a handful of very targeted boutique brands) to voluntarily adopt packaging (or to make products from alternatives) that is more costly isn't realistic either. It's going to take legislation.

Maybe a start would be a plastic tax or fee that would be used to subsidize recycling programs and/or environmental clean up. And it would make plastic alternatives more competitive in price.

I don't want to be smug ( I know it sounds smug but I'm posting it anyway. In a smug-free voice) but I just went outside to check. It's Tuesday night here, and our rubbish and recycling are picked up on Thursday nights. My bins are empty. My inside bin is also empty. I'm Australian - we do lots of rubbish and we send it off to other countries to recycle. They're sending it back more and more often because we're honestly crap about what we're allowed to send them, and you have to ask - what does it cost for people to make shit for us to buy to send off for recycling to poor countries that send it back to us just because we're shit at the global contract? It costs quite a lot. Fortunately, those costs are passed onto Australians at the checkout - so we can go on like this forever.

Before I lived outside Australia, I didn't think not having rubbish at the end of the week was possible - but in the village I lived in in France, the idea of making rubbish for other people to dispose of was kind of shaming.

I'm not saying everyone can swap to Other Choices - for starters, I live alone now, and my choices are mine, but hey - there are usually other choices. There are places to start, and the trick is to let yourself feel good about starting. Saving 3c on a bulk grocery item might feel good (though it's not good if 16% of your bulk pack of zucchini gets thrown away). Saving 3c on not using plastic packaging is probably better. Is all I'm saying. You don't have to - but if you want to, a thing that helps is to reframe your thinking on what's a saving and what really isn't. Just to the extent that you can.

If you throw it out, it is never a saving.

The plastic bag levy is helping, I will say that. I see almost everyone in a supermarket with an eco bag; those that forget or don't have one, usually have a large backpack or their handbag is big enough to carry all of their purchases.

And some manufacturers have also started to move -- reusable straws, wooden stirrers (not a great alternative to plastic, but certainly better), and fewer things in shrink wrap (though there's still a long way to go here).

Snitchcat said:

And some manufacturers have also started to move -- reusable straws, wooden stirrers (not a great alternative to plastic, but certainly better), and fewer things in shrink wrap (though there's still a long way to go here).

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But -unless you have a physical disability, you don't need a straw. You can fit a teaspoon in you bag if you think you might need one, one day. There's no need for shrink-wrap. Buy what you need, and don't buy more than you need. You'll be fine.

Think outside the (plastic) box

Lol. I do. I don't use straws and I don't need a stirrer. I have a reusable plastic spoon in my drawer at work. Haven't needed a stirrer in a long time.

Oh, and repurposing.

I'm happy to report that most of my customers at the auto parts store I work at, do not want bags, citing environmental reasons. More often than not, they will juggle several items out of the store, rather than use a bag. I handle between 50 and 80 transactions a shift, and probably only use bags for 3 or 4 transactions. The tide is starting to change. Probably too late, but, hey, maybe not.

This is not a statement in favor of plastics (with the on-going problem), but could you imagine how heavy certain products might be with other materials, such as professional photocopiers (perhaps made of mostly metal, other)?

I would be difficult to change without plastics. No Tupperware? No fridge components we rely on (e.g. crisper drawers, etc.)? No keyboards? No computer mice?

Enlightened said:

This is not a statement in favor of plastics (with the on-going problem), but could you imagine how heavy certain products might be with other materials, such as professional photocopiers (perhaps made of mostly metal, other)?

I would be difficult to change without plastics. No Tupperware? No fridge components we rely on (e.g. crisper drawers, etc.)? No keyboards? No computer mice?

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Um I think we're talking about unnecessary use of plastics. To start with - supermarket plastics. I don't think anyone is saying that plastics don't have any role to play anywhere ever in the world. Just that free ones that get chucked out the next day might not be needed. We don't need Tupperware. We need to think about Tupperware (with all its subsidies and costs) versus buying less, growing more.

mccardey said:

Um I think we're talking about unnecessary use of plastics. To start with - supermarket plastics. I don't think anyone is saying that plastics don't have any role to play anywhere ever in the world. Just that free ones that get chucked out the next day might not be needed. We don't need Tupperware. We need to think about Tupperware (with all its subsidies and costs) versus buying less, growing more.

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The problem, I think, goes beyond products with short turnover of life cycle (such as plastic bags and water bottles). Granted these are very much part of the problem, but not the only components causing the problems. We used to have a computer parts store in town. I am not sure they are there anymore (too far across town for me). They had computer parts from decades ago.... Vesa cards. Dongles. Loads of stuff no one came in to purchase. Is this how places like Geek Squad / Best Buy (at least here in America) "recycle" the bigger electronics with plastic components (dump it somewhere willing to store it)?

Immediate change (with small stuff) is a great start. We're going to have to deal with big stuff too, eventually.

Enlightened said:

The problem, I think, goes beyond products with short turnover of life cycle (such as plastic bags and water bottles). Granted these are very much part of the problem, but not the only components causing the problems. We used to have a computer parts store in town. I am not sure they are there anymore (too far across town for me). They had computer parts from decades ago.... Vesa cards. Dongles. Loads of stuff no one came in to purchase. Is this how places like Geek Squad / Best Buy (at least here in America) "recycle" the bigger electronics with plastic components (dump it somewhere willing to store it)?

Immediate change (with small stuff) is a great start. We're going to have to deal with big stuff too, eventually.

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Yep. I guess we will. In the meantime...

ETA: Sorry - I'm not sure I get your point.

mccardey said:

Yep. I guess we will. In the meantime...

ETA: Sorry - I'm not sure I get your point.

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Plastic is a big-picture issue, that's all.

Enlightened said:

Dongles. Loads of stuff no one came in to purchase. Is this how places like Geek Squad / Best Buy (at least here in America) "recycle" the bigger electronics with plastic components (dump it somewhere willing to store it)?

Immediate change (with small stuff) is a great start. We're going to have to deal with big stuff too, eventually.

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Computers and peripherals for recycling are broken down to parts; reusable parts are refurbed and sold. Things like batteries, including PRAM batteries, and circuit boards are stripped down and sorted (transistors and resisters removed, etc.). They're put in a special bath that removes the glue, another that removes solder, and a third that removes gold.

A fair amount of gold is reclaimed, as well as copper and silver and lithium and mercury.

But consumers who can postpone buying new, and extend life by repair and re-use can help to offset those who won't.