People who have descendants from ancient Egyptians

Shadow555

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Where do most people who are of modern descendants from ancient Egyptians live most likely today? Would those with ancient Egyptian ancestry be more likely living in the US today? Europe or possibly the Middle East? (I was told that ancient Egyptians are very different ethnic background to the modern Egyptians that live in Egypt today).
 

Alessandra Kelley

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Most of the modern descendants of ancient Egyptians live in Egypt. They didn’t have a habit of leaving such a perfect place to live.

As for ethnic backgrounds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_history_of_Egypt

Looks like the DNA sampled from ancient Egyptians suggests a close relationship with other peoples of the Near East in Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc. The main difference between ancient and modern Egyptians is that there is more sub-Saharan African DNA in modern Egyptians.

As for emigration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_diaspora

It looks like Egyptians really liked staying where they were. They had no tradition of emigrating until Nasser overthrew the monarchy in 1952. At that point a lot of Egyptian Jews and Copts were expelled or fled. But major waves of emigration did not really pick up until the 1980s.

At present the countries outside of Egypt with the largest populations of Egyptians are:
Saudi Arabia (2,900,000)
Jordan (1,600,000)
United States (1,000,000 - 1,500,000)
Libya (~1,000,000)
United Arab Emirates (750,000)
Italy (500,000)
Kuwait (500,000)
Sudan (500,000)
France (365,000)
 
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lonestarlibrarian

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Egypt's current modern population is very mixed, but so it's more like "modern Egyptians" aren't monolithic in their heritage, rather than "modern Egyptians have nothing in common with ancient Egyptians."

So, "modern Egyptians" might have all sorts of ancestors. Most recently, they might be British or Ottoman. They might be Arabs. They might be Copts. They might be Nubians. They might be Romans, or Greeks, or Persians, or Libyans, or Assyrians, or Semitic.

Or, they might be ancient Egyptians.

There's one book, "Omm Sety's Living Egypt: Surviving Folkways from Pharaonic Times", which might be an interesting read, if you can get a copy of it. If I recall, I think the free snippets I read online were about how there were ancient cultural elements that have survived amongst the modern peasantry. I might see if I can check my copy and see if I can come up with a couple of examples, if you like.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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There's one book, "Omm Sety's Living Egypt: Surviving Folkways from Pharaonic Times", which might be an interesting read, if you can get a copy of it. If I recall, I think the free snippets I read online were about how there were ancient cultural elements that have survived amongst the modern peasantry. I might see if I can check my copy and see if I can come up with a couple of examples, if you like.

You have to be careful, though. I have a book on contemporary Egyptian clothing from 1986 that points out that a lot of “traditional” folk dress is cribbed from European models, so for example the traditional “Boheira” folk dress is based on Napoleonic European fashions and the yoked “Jalabiya bi suffra” is modeled on a late-Victorian ladies’ teagown (which was called a “granny dress” in the 1970s).
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Well, you COULD mention the ancient Hebrews who came out of Egypt, but I may get brickbats for the suggestion.

Then there are people like me who are Lebanese (or part Lebanese in my case). I am probably of Phoenician rather than Egyptian ancestry, but remember that people are never of single lineages. Because it takes two to tango, and those two divide in two more for each generation. And that means there may be a great many people who have a smidgeon of Egyptian blood who don't claim Egyptian descent.

Oh. And then there are the gypsies. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the Roma to know if they were actually of Egyptian, but that's where the name came from.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

lonestarlibrarian

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Haha, the author doesn't have much interest in anything after the end of the 19th Dynasty... :p

(Joke for those familiar with the author's personal story.) :)

Let me see what I can randomly pick---

The modern Egyptians also believe that when any serpent reaches extreme old age it grows long hair. There is the ancient story of the Middle Kingdom of the Shipwrecked Sailor who was saved by a bearded serpent. (Blackman, 1932, p 41-48) Local belief says that an aged cobra with long blond hair lives in the Osirion, at the back of the Temple of Seti I. There certainly is a large cobra living there, but it has not hair, blond or brunette. A similar story is told of a cobra living in the so-called Campbell's Tomb, near the Great Sphinx of Giza. Probably someone saw these creatures when they were shedding their skins and mistook some loose shreds of the transparent outer skin for blond hair.

Many modern Egyptians believe that if a cobra decides to come and live in a house, and it is not molested by the human tenants, it will attack and bite thieves. This may well be true, for if a thief entered a house and encountered a cobra, his first reaction would be to attack, in which case, the reptile would retaliate in self-defense.

I once shared a house with a cobra and found it to be not only harmless, but even friendly, in a dignified way. It would drink fresh milk, but turned up its nose at the dry powdered variety, and would suck raw eggs. Unseemly bulges in its anatomy indicated a fondness for sparrows and the neighbor's baby chicks. Its capacity as a guardian was never put to the test.

In a field not far from the Temple of Sety I at Abydos is a pumping machine, which until very recently was used to irrigate some land. The mechanic in charge kept two cobras in a small hut beside the machine and fed them regularly on raw eggs. He regarded them as guardians of the machine and certainly he was never bothered by thieves who, unable to steal a heavy piece of machinery, made practice of stealing some small, but essential part of it, which they then hold for ransom. The presence of his cobras being well-known locally prevented even the mechanic's friends from visiting him after dark!

There is a story, frequently told and firmly believed in, that a cobra once lived in a house where the residents always treated her kindly. She had produced a young one, but one day the latter disappeared. His mother, thinking that someone in the house had killed him, went at once to the water storage jar and spit poison into it in order to avenge her son by killing off the whole human family.

However, before anyone had the occasion to take water from the jar, the young snake appeared. After assuring herself that he was quite unharmed, the female cobra went back to the jar and struck it hard blows with her head, until it broke and the water was spilled harmlessly on the ground. The story, which is told all over Egypt, invariably happened in the house of a "friend of a friend" of the teller! (Variations of this legend can be found in Gayer-Anderson, 1951, 59-61 and Keimer, 1947, 90.)

If there is a grain of truth in the story, the cobra was probably only drinking from the jar, and in any case, snake venom is harmless taken internally, unless there is any small wound in the drinker's mouth, and even then, the small quantity ejected would be completely ineffective in a jar full of water.

The idea of a cobra as a guardian was well known to the ancient Egyptians, this being the function of the uraeus worn on the pharaoh's brow. In the Pyramid Texts it says: "His gods are over him; his uraeus is upon his brow. The leader-serpent of Unas is upon his forehead, she who perceives the soul, a diadem of flame." (Sethe 1910, 396 b-c)

Elsewhere, the cobra is again regarded as a guardian: "You are loosed, O wfi-serpent, cause Unas to be protected." (Sethe 1910, 442a-b)

...and a whole lot more.

So, that would be one example of how the modern (1930's-1980's) Egyptian peasants mirror the perception of the ancient Egyptians of perceiving cobras in a guardianship-type role, to the point of not merely coexisting with them, but actively cultivating them in the way someone might feed the feral cats or leave out water for stray dogs.
 
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lonestarlibrarian

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Here's another one...

There is a widespread belief in modern Egypt that after death, the corpse still retains a mysterious life of its own, and although unable to speak, is conscious of everything taking place around it. Some people even believe that the corpse is capable of physical sensation and for this reason have a profound horror of post-mortem autopsies. In fact, a common curse is [Arabic sentence] "May a doctor slit open your belly!"

Some believe that this mysterious life is only temporary, lasting from one to three days after death, and this gives rise to the custom of watching with the dead mentioned above, either in the room in which he expired or at the tomb in the cemetery. It is often said that the corpses of women, who were known during life to have been pious and modest, have actually been seen to move their hands to cover their pudenda when the female corpse-washer came to prepare them for burial.

Other people believe that this life-force in a corpse is permanent or will last as long as any fragment of the skeleton remains. This belief in a mysterious life remaining in a corpse certainly dates back to ancient Egypt. In those days they believed that the dead, corruptible body, h3t, when embalmed became a s'h, or mummy, and the ceremony of "Opening the Mouth" restored to it all the functions of life.

A woman from Meir, personally known to me, heard that her brother had been fatally injured in an accident in Cairo. The man had died in the hospital without regaining consciousness; as his identity was unknown to the authorities, he was buried by the government. On hearing of this, his sister was terribly upset, as the death had occurred mid-winter, and she was afraid that the shroud provided by the government would be skimpy, not cover the feet properly and consequently the corpse would suffer from the cold. Happily, she was later able to visit the tomb and even enter the community burial chamber. It was a great comfort to her to find that her brother was very well and completely enshrouded, and that his feet were decently covered. Nevertheless, she added the padded quilt that she had brought with her, just in case the weather should get colder! Was she very different from her Western sisters who buy expensive stainless steel individual burial vaults in order to, as the advertisements say, "keep your loved ones safe and dry"?

There is a chapter of the Book of the Dead known as the "Chapter of Making Heat to be under the Head of the Glorified One (the deceased)." The rubric to this chapter reads: "Words spoken over the image of a cow made of fine gold and placed upon the neck of the glorified one (the deceased). It shall be written upon new papyrus and placed under his head, then shall warmth be in him throughout, even like that which was in him when he was upon earth."

etc, etc, etc. So, she was noticing the parallels between the sister bringing a quilt to keep her dead brother warm, vs the ancient practice of burying their dead with grave goods to give them a more comfortable afterlife.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Well, you COULD mention the ancient Hebrews who came out of Egypt, but I may get brickbats for the suggestion.

Then there are people like me who are Lebanese (or part Lebanese in my case). I am probably of Phoenician rather than Egyptian ancestry, but remember that people are never of single lineages. Because it takes two to tango, and those two divide in two more for each generation. And that means there may be a great many people who have a smidgeon of Egyptian blood who don't claim Egyptian descent.

Oh. And then there are the gypsies. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the Roma to know if they were actually of Egyptian, but that's where the name came from.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

The Roma people emigrated en masse from India 1500 years ago.

https://www.livescience.com/25294-origin-romani-people.html

The Egypt connection was never anything but mythic.

There is no direct archeological or archival evidence of the presence of any significant number of ancient Hebrews in Egypt.
 
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Layla Nahar

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You can look at sarcophagus paintings from around the time of Christ +/- some years and you can see faces that look like people you know if you know any Egyptians.
 

MichaelR

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The Copts are a Christian community in Egypt and as far as I understand they see themselves as the "most immedшate" (or something?) descendants of the ancient Egyptians. The word "Copt" comes from Middle Egyptian "huk-ka-Ptah" - "palace of the spirit of Ptah" more or less.
 
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