Mass Shooting at Gilroy Garlic Festival

cornflake · Jul 28, 2019

Breaking, shooter apparently still on the loose, hours later. According to the many witnesses, a guy at the festival (a huge, world-famous, family-friendly annual thing), changed from normal clothes to camo wear, busted out large weaponry, and started walking through the crowd, shooting indiscriminately. So far three dead, 11 injured.

This is the number the Gilroy PD have established for people looking for family members believed to have been at the festival who can't be reached: 408-846-0583

But, you know, the danger facing the country is impoverished immigrants, not the availability of weapons and ammo.

Brightdreamer · Jul 28, 2019

Thoughts and prayers arriving ASAP...

(How often does this have to happen before people realize thoughts and prayers aren't frellin' enough? Yeah, I know... always one more shooting. Always at least one more...)

What I've read indicates a single gunman; though some people seem to be saying one person in custody, I can't find any news site corroborating yet.

ETA - Latest report is 4 dead, 15 injured, still no word on whether or not anyone is in custody: Link

(ETA 2 - Now revised back down to 3 dead.)

frimble3 · Jul 29, 2019

It's the Gilroy Garlic Festival! I've never been, but I've known about it for years - good times, family fun and a chance to eat all the garlic you want, in ways you'd never considered!
It's non-political, and non-controversial, and full of families and similar non-combatants. Why would anyone want to shoot it up?

I know, I know: the guy is crazy, and being in the U.S., had guns readily available.
But just once, when a guy reaches for that trigger, I want him to double over screaming in pain because his hand is cramped up so bad, clenched so tight, that he can't get a finger lose to pull the trigger.
*If this messes with the blood flow so much that he loses the hand, so much the better!

Those poor people. And the ones at the next public event, who will spend the day in fear.

CWatts · Jul 29, 2019

Brightdreamer said:
ETA - Latest report is 4 dead, 15 injured, still no word on whether or not anyone is in custody: Link

(ETA 2 - Now revised back down to 3 dead.)

The gunman was killed after murdering 3 people. Police are looking for a second person who may have been involved. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/us/gilroy-california-food-festival-shooting-monday/index.html

One of the victims was a 6-year-old boy. My son is 5 and this is exactly the type of family fun event we take him to. But a whole class full of dead first-graders wasn't enough to stop this madness so I don't know if anything will.

(That said, California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Somehow that's not enough. What is?)

Elle. · Jul 29, 2019

CWatts said:
The gunman was killed after murdering 3 people. Police are looking for a second person who may have been involved. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/us/gilroy-california-food-festival-shooting-monday/index.html

One of the victims was a 6-year-old boy. My son is 5 and this is exactly the type of family fun event we take him to. But a whole class full of dead first-graders wasn't enough to stop this madness so I don't know if anything will.

(That said, California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Somehow that's not enough. What is?)

I feel the same too, the gun debate died the day Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed.

The problem is you can have all the strict rules you want at federal level but it won't work as long as people can drive to another state to get a gun. If they want stricter gun law to work they need to be implemented nationwide, same for all states.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 29, 2019

Elle. said:
I feel the same too, the gun debate died the day Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed.

The problem is you can have all the strict rules you want at federal level but it won't work as long as people can drive to another state to get a gun. If they want stricter gun law to work they need to be implemented nationwide, same for all states.

I thought that strict rules at the federal level were what we needed.

Isn't it the patchwork of state-by-state laws that allows guns to flood from permissive states into their more restricted neighbors?

Elle. · Jul 29, 2019

Alessandra Kelley said:
I thought that strict rules at the federal level were what we needed.

Isn't it the patchwork of state-by-state laws that allows guns to flood from permissive states into their more restricted neighbors?

Sorry I might be mistaken I thought the federal level were state level.

Yes that's what I'm saying as long as there is only a patchwork and no national, same rule for all states I don't believe there can be meaningful restrictions.

veinglory · Jul 29, 2019

Mostly you don't get to choose whether something can be done at state or federal level. You do it wherever and whenever it can be done.

cornflake · Jul 29, 2019

Also, as with other things, when states get fed up, and pass their own rules, it often eventually pushes something into a tipping point where the federal rules will then change -- like same-sex marriage. Even if that doesn't happen, it can act like vaccinations. Ring enough states that don't care with states or municipalities with very strict laws and it'll become both harder to easily obtain stuff and easier to put the screws to the states that refuse to capitulate. If, say, a bunch of weapons used in crimes come out of a state with lax laws, and people start suing... Even if they lose, it costs the city/state money to defend itself.

Roxxsmom · Jul 29, 2019

Elle. said:
I feel the same too, the gun debate died the day Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed.

The problem is you can have all the strict rules you want at federal level but it won't work as long as people can drive to another state to get a gun. If they want stricter gun law to work they need to be implemented nationwide, same for all states.

But federal level laws are what is needed for nationwide gun control. Right now we have a patchwork of state laws. CA has a long and uncontrolled border it shares with NV and AZ--both states that have fewer restrictions on guns.

Lavern08 · Jul 29, 2019

frimble3 said:
It's the Gilroy Garlic Festival!!!
I've never been, but I've known about it for years - good times, family fun and a chance to eat all the garlic you want, in ways you'd never considered! - It's non-political, and non-controversial, and full of families and similar non-combatants. Why would anyone want to shoot it up?

My thoughts exactly??!! - I saw this festival showcased on the Food Network, and thought: "What a fun and quirky way to spend the day!"

People are just plain crazy!!!

-

cornflake · Jul 29, 2019

The shooter -- an illegal immigrant from Mexico (HAHA j/k -- he's a 19-yr-old apparent white supremacist from CA) -- posted a couple things on Instagram right before the shooting, including --

Ayyy garlic festival time. Come get wasted on overpriced shit.

and

Read Might Is Right by Ragnar Redbeard. Why overcrowd towns and pave more open space to make room for hordes of mestizos and Silicon Valley white twats?

So apparently he was mad that the decades-old festival held by the town to celebrate its big crop sold 'expensive' garlic soup? I got nothing except dumb, entitled, angry white supremacist.

Elle. · Jul 29, 2019

Roxxsmom said:
But federal level laws are what is needed for nationwide gun control. Right now we have a patchwork of state laws. CA has a long and uncontrolled border it shares with NV and AZ--both states that have fewer restrictions on guns.

But the problem is that they all have different laws there needs to be just one law that applies to the whole country — a blanket legislation if that makes sense. And yes, according to the press the shooter bought his weapon in Neveda, which proves my point.

cornflake · Jul 29, 2019

Elle. said:
But the problem is that they all have different laws there needs to be just one law that applies to the whole country — a blanket legislation if that makes sense. And yes, according to the press the shooter bought his weapon in Neveda, which proves my point.

That's what Roxx is saying -- that federal laws are needed.

They're not likely though, if the past few decades are any indication.

OK, sorry, just noticed you're in the UK apparently.

In the U.S. there are federal laws, which apply to the entire country, like the voting age being 18, and there are state laws, which are passed by individual states, like, say, speed limits on highways.

States are basically governed with a house and senate (made up of representatives from every county in the state), and a governour, while the U.S. as a whole is governed by a house and a senate (made up of representatives from each state), and a president. It's the same system, just writ large and small -- many cities have the same type of system, with a mayor at the top and etc.

If not specifically designated a federal power, the power is left to the states to decide for themselves. This can change. Abortion laws were, because they were not specifically noted in the Constitution, left to the individual states to make rules about. Then, in 1973, the Supreme Court decided that abortion was covered by the inherent guarantee of privacy in the Constitution, and extended the availability of legal abortion nationwide (federally), because the U.S. Supreme Court oversees the entire country (each state has a supreme court of its own).

For there to be federal laws about guns, they have to be passed by both houses and signed by the president. This has proved pretty impossible for decades now. Different states, however, have made gun laws both more and less restrictive in response to the confusion and the vague federal laws passed (small things like banning specific types of large weapons or rulings saying it is ok for people to possess weapons or etc.). There's longer explanations but hopefully this helps, some?

Roxxsmom · Jul 29, 2019

cornflake said:
That's what Roxx is saying -- that federal laws are needed.

They're not likely though, if the past few decades are any indication.

OK, sorry, just noticed you're in the UK apparently.

In the U.S. there are federal laws, which apply to the entire country, like the voting age being 18, and there are state laws, which are passed by individual states, like, say, speed limits on highways.

Yeah, and the Federal government has not made gun control a priority in recent decades (to put it mildly), so states are left on their own. State gun control laws do have an effect, but they can't effectively stop people from carrying weapons across state lines or from obtaining them via private sales. Sadly, state laws are what we have right now, and the more states pass them the more effective they are likely to be.

Unfortunately, many states are going in the opposite direction with laws permitting open or concealed carry in most public places and an "anything goes" approach to gun regulations. Some are even insisting that teachers and college professors should be armed in their classrooms. They rationalize that having more guns on the street will reduce gun violence and make everyone safer, in spite of data and research that suggest otherwise. Interestingly, open carry of even unloaded weapons appears to increase rates of gun violence.

Elle. · Jul 29, 2019

cornflake said:
That's what Roxx is saying -- that federal laws are needed.

They're not likely though, if the past few decades are any indication.

OK, sorry, just noticed you're in the UK apparently.

In the U.S. there are federal laws, which apply to the entire country, like the voting age being 18, and there are state laws, which are passed by individual states, like, say, speed limits on highways.

States are basically governed with a house and senate (made up of representatives from every county in the state), and a governour, while the U.S. as a whole is governed by a house and a senate (made up of representatives from each state), and a president. It's the same system, just writ large and small -- many cities have the same type of system, with a mayor at the top and etc.

If not specifically designated a federal power, the power is left to the states to decide for themselves. This can change. Abortion laws were, because they were not specifically noted in the Constitution, left to the individual states to make rules about. Then, in 1973, the Supreme Court decided that abortion was covered by the inherent guarantee of privacy in the Constitution, and extended the availability of legal abortion nationwide (federally), because the U.S. Supreme Court oversees the entire country (each state has a supreme court of its own).

For there to be federal laws about guns, they have to be passed by both houses and signed by the president. This has proved pretty impossible for decades now. Different states, however, have made gun laws both more and less restrictive in response to the confusion and the vague federal laws passed (small things like banning specific types of large weapons or rulings saying it is ok for people to possess weapons or etc.). There's longer explanations but hopefully this helps, some?

yes sorry I am not in the US so I might not be using the right terminology.

As I said personally I don't think there will every be a real solution until they pass restrictions and laws that apply to the entire country but I can't see this happening as long as the NRA and the gun lobby have such a stronghold on the political landscape. Call me pessimistic but personally I stopped believing in any meaningful changes after Sandy Hook. If a classroom full of dead small kids didn't sway them nothing will.

frimble3 · Jul 29, 2019

cornflake said:
The shooter -- an illegal immigrant from Mexico (HAHA j/k -- he's a 19-yr-old apparent white supremacist from CA) -- posted a couple things on Instagram right before the shooting, including --

and

So apparently he was mad that the decades-old festival held by the town to celebrate its big crop sold 'expensive' garlic soup? I got nothing except dumb, entitled, angry white supremacist.

I Googled that book. Why is it that when some loon decides to voluntarily read one book in their miserable lives, and base his life on it, this is the kind of book they seem to invariably go for?
Why not the life of Saint Francis? Why not organic farming? Why not 'How to Make Friends and Influence People'? Why not something useful?
But, no, it's always some kind of tract that tells a disenfranchised bigot, and loser looking for someone to blame for his lack of success, that it's other people's fault and that he's justified in doing whatever he wants?

cornflake · Jul 29, 2019

frimble3 said:
I Googled that book. Why is it that when some loon decides to voluntarily read one book in their miserable lives, and base his life on it, this is the kind of book they seem to invariably go for?
Why not the life of Saint Francis? Why not organic farming? Why not 'How to Make Friends and Influence People'? Why not something useful?
But, no, it's always some kind of tract that tells a disenfranchised bigot, and loser looking for someone to blame for his lack of success, that it's other people's fault and that he's justified in doing whatever he wants?

Books like the Life of St. Francis stuff don't generally tell uneducated, loser, bigots to blame others for their issues, especially specific, visible others. That's much more comforting to people than the idea they can do something, but they have to do something. See also: Rodger, Elliot.

Brightdreamer · Jul 29, 2019

frimble3 said:
I Googled that book. Why is it that when some loon decides to voluntarily read one book in their miserable lives, and base his life on it, this is the kind of book they seem to invariably go for?
Why not the life of Saint Francis? Why not organic farming? Why not 'How to Make Friends and Influence People'? Why not something useful?
But, no, it's always some kind of tract that tells a disenfranchised bigot, and loser looking for someone to blame for his lack of success, that it's other people's fault and that he's justified in doing whatever he wants?

Well, to be fair, that's not the only book ruining the world... Ayn Rand has a heck of a lot to answer for.

Certain books have a magnetic appeal to certain personalities, unfortunately.

cbenoi1 · Jul 29, 2019

The U S of A. 3 2 1 3 1 2 1 day(s) without a mass shooting.

-cb

CWatts · Jul 29, 2019

Brightdreamer said:
Well, to be fair, that's not the only book ruining the world... Ayn Rand has a heck of a lot to answer for.

Certain books have a magnetic appeal to certain personalities, unfortunately.

This.
Also, screw "Ragnar Redbeard" for ruining a decent D&D dwarf name.

MaeZe · Jul 29, 2019

frimble3 said:
It's the Gilroy Garlic Festival! I've never been, but I've known about it for years - good times, family fun and a chance to eat all the garlic you want, in ways you'd never considered!
It's non-political, and non-controversial, and full of families and similar non-combatants. Why would anyone want to shoot it up?....

Because a large population of Hispanics live in the area and attend the event, and, according to the shooter's Instagram, he's been encouraged by white supremacists.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/07/gi...tic-anti-semitic-book-popular-with-neo-nazis/

https://www.newsweek.com/gilroy-shooter-white-supremacist-manifesto-instagram-1451586

From the BBC: Bought the gun legally in Nevada to get around California's strict gun laws.

AW Admin · Jul 30, 2019

DO NOT TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER GUN CONTROL THREAD

RedRajah · Jul 30, 2019

Ugh...

[h=1]‘Dilbert’ Creator Scott Adams Tries to Sell Interviews With Gilroy Garlic Festival Shooting Survivors[/h]

cbenoi1 · Jul 30, 2019

No actual Gilroy survivors appear to have taken Adams up on his offer. As of this writing, the only avowed “expert” for the search term “Gilroy” available on the site appears to be a troll who lists his other topics as “Scott Adams being vile” and “journalism basics.” He’s willing to talk about any of those issues for $50 an hour.

That sums up the business model right there.

-cb

Mass Shooting at Gilroy Garlic Festival

practical experience, FTW

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Heckuva good sport

down the rabbit hole of research...

Sophipygian

volitare nequeo

practical experience, FTW

Beastly Fido

Sit Down, and Shut Up!

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

Beastly Fido

Heckuva good sport

practical experience, FTW

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

down the rabbit hole of research...

Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone