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What To Do When Your Love/Sex Scenes Suck (and not in a good way)?

nighttimer

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So...I've been bored. After years and years and years of reading and writing non-fiction and straight-up journalism, I decided to try my hand at writing fiction. Not the publishable kind of fiction either. Fan-fiction. It just seemed easier to write about characters I knew already and whose characterizations and motivations were already established.

Something I've picked up on rather quickly is there is a lot of sexy stuff going on in the majority of fan-fic I've read. Some of it is good, a lot of it is bad, and other times it seems like its only in there because there is an expectation that sooner or later (and it's always sooner) that the character(s) are gonna get down n' dirty. Sometimes really dirty. :e2kissy:

So, I tried to write a love scene which would morph into a genuine, authentic, realistic and hopefully erotic and not simply explicit and graphic and phony sex scene.

Face. :e2thud: Plant.

I sought advice. I read essays on how to write a sex scene. I consorted with loose women of dubious moral character. I gargled bourbon and smoked herb like a chimney. I plugged in to Pornhub for a reminder of how eroticism and pornography are distant cousins not on speaking terms. None of it helped.

Then I thought about what some of the great minds of the Absolute Write might have to say about how not to write about making sexytime. And I read some fanfic where the semi-obligatory bodies slapping together scene actually resonated and it seemed authentic and earned. Because the saying about sex being a lot like pizza; even when its bad it's still pretty good is garbage. Bad sex is worse than no sex.

Hate sex is worse than bad sex and I hated writing a sex scene. And the readers hated reading it, so there is that.

So should I skip the sex and get back to the story instead of forcing it in where it doesn't fit? What's worse? Two characters who should be bumping uglies but don't because of---reasons or getting them horizontal (or vertical if that's how you get down to bizness) or two characters who do get busy and it's a special sort of awfulness.

Because as Dorothy Parker might have said if she had read this swill, “This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." :e2tomato:

Suggestions appreciated.
 

KBooks

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Well, a question.

Do you want to learn to write love scenes? Like... do you enjoy writing them, want them in your work and feel envious because you desperately want that club in your bag and just don't have it yet?

Or do you feel like the expectation is there that you have to include love scenes and you wish it wasn't? Because you really *don't* have to include them. You can do a fade to black. You can cut to what happened immediately after and get the emotional impact. All of these work great.
 

nighttimer

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Yes. It's not requisite. If the story needs it, it'll come [sic].

I see what you did there and I'm here for it. :e2brows:

And yeah, I don't believe in "if it don't fit, force it." Maybe it would be best to allow myself to stink at something and know it rather than try to fake it and know its fake. Readers can smell the b.s. a mile away and when you're trying to write a same-sex scene and you're not of that same sex, you're really behind the 8-ball because your only frame of reference is from pop culture and bad porn.

Guess I need to read more stuff from those who are experts on the subject.

Or not.


AW Admin said:

I did not see that until just now and mostly because my Google-Fu is not advanced enough to search for a 15-year-old post on how to write sex scenes and I was going to ask how you found it so quickly then I remembered who you were and figured that you're simply a Jedi Master on a board where most of us are still bumbling novices.

So I figured it would be better to simply accept the offering and not how you located it. Graci.
 

Maryn

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You're aware, I hope, that AW boasts an Erotica board with lots of published people who come around regularly. (Granted, it's slow recently, I assume people vacationing or busy with kids home for the summer.) Get the password from AW Admin (just ask for it and say you're 21 or older, for AW's legal protection) and swing on by to discuss this with people who've mastered it and a few who've made it an art form.

It's a skill that can be learned, if that's what you choose to do. It's also not a requirement for good fanfic, just a common element in much of the better fanfic.

Maryn, vacuuming the welcome mat and refilling the chips and salsa
 

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I wouldn't try to force anything into your writing, sex or otherwise. As a reader I think forced writing feels unnatural and hurts the quality of the story.
 

Brooklyn_Story_Coach

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Writing love scenes is a lot like making love. Having fun, exploring, being vulnerable, and generally hoping for a honest finish is about all you can hope for. If it feels forced, silly, or embarrassing, well, there isn’t much hope for either.
 

lizmonster

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Have you ever written a fight scene or a chase scene? For me, sex scenes get written the same way. You're describing an experience that's intensely physical, and in the real world most of us aren't much in our words in these moments. :) But you need to use words to describe for your readers what's happening.

Trial and error, and a high tolerance for laughing at yourself a bit. :) Practice makes perfect.
 

eqb

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Have you ever written a fight scene or a chase scene? For me, sex scenes get written the same way. You're describing an experience that's intensely physical, and in the real world most of us aren't much in our words in these moments. :) But you need to use words to describe for your readers what's happening.

This! Both fight scenes and sex scenes need to be choreographed. Both need to include only the physical/action details that add to the emotional layers and character development.

You might also consider practice writing the scene(s) from both points of view. Just as practice.
 

nighttimer

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Well, a question.

Do you want to learn to write love scenes? Like... do you enjoy writing them, want them in your work and feel envious because you desperately want that club in your bag and just don't have it yet?

Well...yeah. I do want to learn how to write love scenes, but I don't enjoy writing love scenes because they come off as artificial and stagey. :Shrug:

I read the works of others and they make my heart flutter, my pulse increase and the blood races to places where the endorphins make me feel good. I either buy in and get turned on, or it just lays there like a dying fish flopping on the floor. I ask myself, "Why is this not working for me? I have words. I think I know how to organize them in order to engender the desired result, but it doesn't seem to be happening."

Then it becomes easier to skip it entirely and smash-cut to the next fight scene.

K Books said:
Or do you feel like the expectation is there that you have to include love scenes and you wish it wasn't? Because you really *don't* have to include them. You can do a fade to black. You can cut to what happened immediately after and get the emotional impact. All of these work great.

The fade to black works in some circumstances, but in others it seems like a cop-out. I get what you're saying K Books. It's my story and I don't have to pander to prurient interests or cater to anyone's expectations

You're aware, I hope, that AW boasts an Erotica board with lots of published people who come around regularly. (Granted, it's slow recently, I assume people vacationing or busy with kids home for the summer.) Get the password from AW Admin (just ask for it and say you're 21 or older, for AW's legal protection) and swing on by to discuss this with people who've mastered it and a few who've made it an art form.

It's a skill that can be learned, if that's what you choose to do. It's also not a requirement for good fanfic, just a common element in much of the better fanfic.

Maryn, vacuuming the welcome mat and refilling the chips and salsa

Ummm....salsa. Will there be vino as well?

Yeah, I gave some thought to perusing the Erotica forum for tips and tricks, but decided it might be better to check in with BWQ first, and look it worked! Along came Maryn who spread out the Welcome mat to the Erotica forum and there's chips and salsa too?

Sweet! :yessmiley


I wouldn't try to force anything into your writing, sex or otherwise. As a reader I think forced writing feels unnatural and hurts the quality of the story.

Amen, and a boom-shaka-laka from the choir. There are few things as obvious as a writer venturing into territory they are uncomfortable in.
 

nighttimer

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Writing love scenes is a lot like making love. Having fun, exploring, being vulnerable, and generally hoping for a honest finish is about all you can hope for. If it feels forced, silly, or embarrassing, well, there isn’t much hope for either.

Hunter S. Thompson said that writing is the opposite of sex in that it's best when it's over. I'm hoping for an honest finish, but I'm with you; if it feels forced, silly, or embarrassing, then the reader is going to spot it immediately and call it out as bogus.

Have you ever written a fight scene or a chase scene? For me, sex scenes get written the same way. You're describing an experience that's intensely physical, and in the real world most of us aren't much in our words in these moments. :) But you need to use words to describe for your readers what's happening.

Yeah, but I made the mistake of telling the reader instead of showing them what was going on.

lizmonster said:
Trial and error, and a high tolerance for laughing at yourself a bit. :) Practice makes perfect.

Oh, yeah. You are so right about that. I've been laughing at myself so much, my wife will open the door of my writing room, stick her head in, and ask, "You okay?" :Huh:

This! Both fight scenes and sex scenes need to be choreographed. Both need to include only the physical/action details that add to the emotional layers and character development.

You might also consider practice writing the scene(s) from both points of view. Just as practice.

That is excellent advice. My wife and I realized enjoyed The Big Easy with Dennis Quaid and Ellen Barkin (before plastic surgery wrecked both of their faces) and the love/sex scene involved no nudity, but a lot of suggestive poses and heavy breathing. Barkin can be very...expressive in these scenes. Mildly NSFW.

That is an example of the sort of sexy slow burn which is what I'm going for and if I can't get it, I don't want to settle for Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am, instead.
 

ap123

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Just a thought (and I don't write erotica), but I wonder if it might be easier to learn to write these scenes not with fan fiction, but with characters you create?
(no personal experience with fanfic, so I could be way off base). I rarely write sex scenes anymore, but when I do/have, they've come about fairly naturally (as much as anything in this wacky world of fiction comes naturally) because these are characters I have developed from the inside out. Same as most scenes, you want to be deep, deep inside the POV character's head, so you feel those goosebumps rise whether they're from the tease of a just skimmed tongue or the drop of blood falling on your nose in a deserted house because the dead body upstairs has begun leaking. Very little telling, forget showing, it's about the feeling, smelling, touching, tasting, heartbeat, heat, etc
 

nighttimer

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Just a thought (and I don't write erotica), but I wonder if it might be easier to learn to write these scenes not with fan fiction, but with characters you create?
(no personal experience with fanfic, so I could be way off base). I rarely write sex scenes anymore, but when I do/have, they've come about fairly naturally (as much as anything in this wacky world of fiction comes naturally) because these are characters I have developed from the inside out. Same as most scenes, you want to be deep, deep inside the POV character's head, so you feel those goosebumps rise whether they're from the tease of a just skimmed tongue or the drop of blood falling on your nose in a deserted house because the dead body upstairs has begun leaking. Very little telling, forget showing, it's about the feeling, smelling, touching, tasting, heartbeat, heat, etc

Here's the problem, ap123. I have never written fiction. Like ever.

I belong to a local writer's group and while I'm writing essays and commentaries, nearly everyone else is writing autobiographies, Victorian romance, YA fiction and yada-yada-yada. I've read and I've learned and I've grown because I've learned from the best, the worst and the merely mediocre. Writing non-fiction from the heart clashes with my journalism brain.

This is both edifying and terrifying. I'm going to have to give some serious, serious consideration as to how deeply in these waters I can wade.
 
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AW Admin

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This is both edifying and terrifying. I'm going to have to give some serious, serious consideration as to how deeply in these waters I can wade.

Why not think about doing NaNoWriMo this November? Just think about what you'll write now; maybe do some basic plotting or outlining, bt then actually just write it in November.

One of the things about NaNo is that the drive to progress gets words on the page. You can't agonize too much about doin' it rong because Word Count. And you can go back in revise, say in December or January or later.
 

nighttimer

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Why not think about doing NaNoWriMo this November? Just think about what you'll write now; maybe do some basic plotting or outlining, bt then actually just write it in November.

One of the things about NaNo is that the drive to progress gets words on the page. You can't agonize too much about doin' it rong because Word Count. And you can go back in revise, say in December or January or later.

NaNoWriMo is to me like the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot: heard about, but never seen. :e2steer:

I will have to look into it. As well as obtaining a PW to the Erotica forum....
 

indianroads

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I suggest reading a bunch or Romance novels, not necessarily erotica... but maybe I guess. For me, the best way to learn is to read.
 

Layla Nahar

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"So should I skip the sex and get back to the story instead of forcing it in where it doesn't fit?"

Yes, yes, by the gods, yes
 

Marian Perera

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Back in the day, I wrote fanfics with detailed sex scenes. Oh, and these were Transformers fanfics. If I can write about giant alien robots having sex, I can write about anyone having sex.

One thing that helped me was reading all kinds of sex scenes. From horrible and poorly written scenes to superbly written scenes that made me cringe because I don't get turned on by pain, to intense steamy scenes to scenes that made me tear up because the characters had such a strong emotional connection. These all gave me ideas for how to write my own.

Another thing I do is to envision my characters, both on a physical and on an emotional level. Once I know who they are, I know how they feel about sex, what hangups they have about it, and how they're going to approach it. Before they so much as kiss on-page, I've pictured them having sex.

Hope this helps!
 

nighttimer

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"So should I skip the sex and get back to the story instead of forcing it in where it doesn't fit?"

Yes, yes, by the gods, yes

:ROFL:Too true! :ROFL:

There is considerable merit to the idea of "less is more" and you can convey sex without being graphic in the execution of the act.

Knowing when to fade out because you've set it up and established to the reader, "I know where this is going" is a preferable option to slathering on rutting and humping like horny wild boars.

Not that I'm knocking horny wild boars. They gotta get their swerve on too. I just don't need all the down n' dirty details on how they do it.

Back in the day, I wrote fanfics with detailed sex scenes. Oh, and these were Transformers fanfics. If I can write about giant alien robots having sex, I can write about anyone having sex.

One thing that helped me was reading all kinds of sex scenes. From horrible and poorly written scenes to superbly written scenes that made me cringe because I don't get turned on by pain, to intense steamy scenes to scenes that made me tear up because the characters had such a strong emotional connection. These all gave me ideas for how to write my own.

Another thing I do is to envision my characters, both on a physical and on an emotional level. Once I know who they are, I know how they feel about sex, what hangups they have about it, and how they're going to approach it. Before they so much as kiss on-page, I've pictured them having sex.

Hope this helps!

Transformer Sex.
Now there's two words I had never envisioned being put together but now that I have what do I do? :Wha:

Yeah, I have read all kinds of sex scenes in this particular fan-fic and you're quite accurate. They do run the gamut from horrible and poorly written (you must have read my first stab at it) to superbly written scenes that made me cringe because I don't get turned on by BDSM, blood play with knives and other kinks and fetishes that are off my menu. Hey, different strokes for different folks, but cutting someone in restraints and then licking up the blood...ugh. No. Just no.

So I avoid that and seek out the material that is a little sweeter and a lot less rougher. I'm trying to make things hot, but heat is best applied gradually and let it rise o ver a span of time. Just shoving meat in the oven and turning it on high is not the best approach to a casserole or bouncing around on the bed.

Take your time. Do it right. Of course, I'm talking about writing.
 

LJD

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1) read lots of books with sex scenes
2) focus more on emotions than simply the mechanics
3) if it's really not your cup of tea, don't force it
 

thethinker42

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I say this as someone who has, over the last 10 years, written 100+ romances of varying degrees of eroticism, with varying quantities/heat levels/lengths of sex scenes... as someone who conservatively estimates I've written 1,000-1,500 sex scenes...

...if you're forcing it to be there, then yes, absolutely, delete the crap out of it and never look back.

That applies to any scene, of course, but in my experience, gratuitous sex scenes are more conspicuous to and scrutinized by readers than any other type of gratuitous scene. Or rather, a sex scene is gratuitous until proven necessary, while other scenes are necessary until proven gratuitous. So a sex scene that truly is gratuitous is going to result in eye-rolling and "oh God, another one?" from your audience.

If the scene belongs there, then by all means, make it happen, and those of us in the Erotica forum will be happy to help as much as we can if you need some feedback. But don't shoehorn a sex scene into your book just because. No amount of lube will make it fit.
 

Marian Perera

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Transformer Sex. Now there's two words I had never envisioned being put together but now that I have what do I do? :Wha:

You decide whether you like your Transformers sex sticky (robots have analogues to human body parts) or plug-and-play (everything else - tactile stimulation, ports, uplinking, sparksex, etc).

Hey, different strokes for different folks, but cutting someone in restraints and then licking up the blood...ugh. No. Just no.

This is why I'm reluctant to read vampire romance. I like sexy vampires. I could watch certain parts of Interview with the Vampire over and over. But any time we get into a description of fangs piercing veins, and this is supposed to be erotic, I'm turned off.
 

PostHuman

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So, I tried to write a love scene which would morph into a genuine, authentic, realistic and hopefully erotic and not simply explicit and graphic and phony sex scene.

Face. :e2thud: Plant.

I sought advice. I read essays on how to write a sex scene. I consorted with loose women of dubious moral character. I gargled bourbon and smoked herb like a chimney. I plugged in to Pornhub for a reminder of how eroticism and pornography are distant cousins not on speaking terms. None of it helped.

Then I thought about what some of the great minds of the Absolute Write might have to say about how not to write about making sexytime. And I read some fanfic where the semi-obligatory bodies slapping together scene actually resonated and it seemed authentic and earned. Because the saying about sex being a lot like pizza; even when its bad it's still pretty good is garbage. Bad sex is worse than no sex.

Hate sex is worse than bad sex and I hated writing a sex scene. And the readers hated reading it, so there is that.

So should I skip the sex and get back to the story instead of forcing it in where it doesn't fit? What's worse? Two characters who should be bumping uglies but don't because of---reasons or getting them horizontal (or vertical if that's how you get down to bizness) or two characters who do get busy and it's a special sort of awfulness.

Because as Dorothy Parker might have said if she had read this swill, “This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." :e2tomato:

Suggestions appreciated.

So you have two characters in a story that is working for you, but the romance part of it doesn't fit with the rest of the story? Maybe you can explain a bit more about the characters? Are they both strong characters, compelled toward some kind of opposing goals? If you take two compulsive characters who are opposites in some way and tie them together due to some unbreakable bond, dramatic conflict develops naturally as they each want something different.

Or let's call this romance your B story, is there unity with the A story? For example your mc is dealing with X external problems and Y internal problems that are related, the love interest teaches them some kind of life lesson or shows a warped mirror to the mc's flaws etc, then this ends up influencing how they deal with the A story? Are you throwing enough obstacles at the couple to thwart the romance?

Is the dialogue too much exposition or "on the nose" declarations instead of letting the reader infer from subtext? Do the scenes with these characters believably build in dramatic conflict through the entire scene? Or does the conflict rise then fall static or jump around in an unrealistic way?
 
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