Male protagonist?

I can't think why female readers would be any less likely to relate to male protagonists in YA fantasy than they are in adult fantasy. Some (probably most, if online polls are anything to go off) of the best beloved fantasy protagonists of all time are male, and women make up approximately half of all fantasy readers.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on marketing or on the current demands of the market, so I'm just tossing out my impressions based on stuff I've run across people in the publishing industry saying online.

I think many agents and editors are especially looking for good protagonists who aren't white, straight males these days, because white, straight males have been so over represented up until now. I haven't noticed a shortage of new fantasy novels with male protagonists, however, and I've also heard that some agents and editors are actually looking for male protagonists in YA (I don't know specifically about YA fantasy), because conventional wisdom insists young male readers are still (sigh) more inclined to want to read about males than females. FWIW, my brother liked Pippi Longstocking when we were kids.

lizmonster said:

Didn’t mean to make gross generalizations. In my experience, readers are readers. But there’s definitely a phenomenon where adults, at least, assume boys aren’t going to be interested in books about girls. I’m on mobile atm and not able to link, but there are numerous anecdotes by female MG and YA authors discussing the assumptions of educators around boys being disinterested in what they’d have to say. It’s almost certainly an adult issue rather than a kid-reader issue, but it does affect marketing and publicity (and sales).

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Oh yes, I definitely check the numbers & at least on Twitter follow a lot of the authors who discuss this (Shannon Hale talks about it a lot). And I'm sure the data show there's some truth to it, though you've zeroed in on the issue and why I think the generalization can lead to some harmful practices. But the kids I talk to are lovely and, at least in the last ten years, most of the issue comes down to parents and educators reinforcing weird patriarchal rules about who read what. The fact that kids aren't buying it as much these days is one of the few reasons I have hope for the future.

That said, there is nothing wrong with applying pressure when necessary, and I try to push as hard as possible (short of losing my job) to not let kids fall into this trap.

I often wonder if the Harry Potter series would have been as popular if it had been "Harriot Potter" with a female and male sidekick. They certainly thought keeping Rowling's gender somewhat obscured would help with marketing.

The prevalence of male protagonists and greater exposure of male authors isn't just down to men, though. I've run across many women authors and readers who say they prefer male protagonists, because they "like to fall a little in love with the protagonist." Maybe there are male readers who prefer female protagonists for the same reason, but if so, that might explain the whole male gaze problem, even with books written from a female pov. And all those reader polls where people recommend the SF and F books they think are classics tend to skew heavily towards male authors and to ignore some really good female writers. Female readers are clearly skimming over authors of their own gender too.

I think I'm kind of rare as a reader, because most of the SFF writers I can think of offhand, and nearly all of my favorites, are women. I was shocked when I began interacting with other SFF readers and writers online and discovered many couldn't name more than 2-3 female SF and F writers at all. I'm actually suspicious of books by male authors I don't already know or who aren't highly recommended, because I've run across so many who build highly sexist or misogynistic worlds where women are just props or plot devices without even attempting to examine or explore or empathize with what it's like to be a sentient being with goals and wants of your own in a world that despises you.

I think one issue is boys tend to read less than girls, and adult men read less fiction than adult women as well. Some publishers are flailing about, trying to figure out how to increase their reader base by getting and keeping the interest of younger males as they mature.

Roxxsmom said:

I think I'm kind of rare as a reader, because most of the SFF writers I can think of offhand, and nearly all of my favorites, are women. I was shocked when I began interacting with other SFF readers and writers online and discovered many couldn't name more than 2-3 female SF and F writers at all. I'm actually suspicious of books by male authors I don't already know or who aren't highly recommended, because I've run across so many who build highly sexist or misogynistic worlds where women are just props or plot devices without even attempting to examine or explore or empathize with what it's like to be a sentient being with goals and wants of your own in a world that despises you.

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I don't think you're all that rare, at least among female readers. That's exactly how I navigated SFF during the 70s. I'd buy anything that looked interesting if the writer's name was identifiably female. For male-looking authors, I tended to stick with writers I knew. I didn't think about it much at the time - I just had a better hit rate with new female authors than male, and I purchased accordingly.

Roxxsmom said:

Some publishers are flailing about, trying to figure out how to increase their reader base by getting and keeping the interest of younger males as they mature.

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I have Thoughts[tm] about publishers and their publicity choices, but one thing I've learned is that every book gets different treatment, and the same publicity department can do brilliantly for one book and be weirdly tone-deaf about another. The main advice I'd give authors going into it for the first time is to trust your instincts and scream like hell if you think they're doing it wrong. If you've got experience buying books in your genre, you may very well be right.

Roxxsmom said:

I often wonder if the Harry Potter series would have been as popular if it had been "Harriot Potter" with a female and male sidekick. They certainly thought keeping Rowling's gender somewhat obscured would help with marketing.

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Back then, no way, but Sabriel did great great on a slightly lesser scale. I think it's hard to underestimate what a game-changer Hunger Gam was, and as much as I get tired of 'Strong Female Character' as a marketing term, it's not to be underestimated.

Maybe when 2010s parents do their prenatal gender reveals they can also publish the pre-approved reading lists for their kids from age 0-21, when they'll presumably be allowed to be exposed to opposite sex protagonists, but only in the safe, controllled environment of a uni level lit course. We'll need a panel of entomologists to determine the chromosomality of the Hungry Hungry Caterpillar.

It's mind emboggling, I tell ya, the lengths adults will go to enforce wild hoodoo bullshit like 'boys don't want to read/watch movies about girls' on their offspring, and then turn out surprised when they turn into toxic adults themselves who literally can't empathize with female human beings. Give boys books about girls ffs.

Albedo said:

It's mind emboggling, I tell ya, the lengths adults will go to enforce wild hoodoo bullshit like 'boys don't want to read/watch movies about girls' on their offspring, and then turn out surprised when they turn into toxic adults themselves who literally can't emphasize with female human beings. Give boys books about girls ffs.

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This.

Also - the constant and damaging repetition by adults of "Boys don't read" creates - guess what? - boys who think other, real boys don't read. It's a lot like "Girls don't like maths." or "Women aren't capable of voting sensibly because of their Bits."

What that statement is, is a heads-up that one needs to interrogate one's own damaging beliefs about boys and girls and women and men, and about the universal human need for language and narrative - how stories encourage people to claim their own shared and still-unique place.

Nonicks said:

As for the YA novels, I don't think it matters if boys don't want to read books with female leads. Your book won't reach any book stores if agents (and editors) don't acquire it (I don't want to self publish); it only matters what agents want to see in their inboxes. I'm not Pierce Brown and I can't afford to write whatever I want. I think most of the people here have already been published and they have agents. So they just write whatever they want. They don't understand the unagented writers who would write anything just to get an agent interested in their ms.

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Unless you're a phenomenally quick and assured writer, I'm not sue that's the best way to go about it. By the time the book is agent-ready, the market may well have moved on to something else. Best idea is to know your genre, yes, but to focus on writing the thing that sings to you. It's more likely to sing to other people as well.

My 2c worth, which you needn't pay for...

Nonicks said:

This new novel is for adults, not young adults or middle grade.

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Then unless you're writing in a genre where male protagonists are really unusual (mainstream romance, for example), you really and truly have nothing to worry about on this point.

Nonicks said:

I think most of the people here have already been published and they have agents. So they just write whatever they want.

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This is not a thing. Unless you're Pierce Brown, or Rowling or Jemisin or King, you can never be assured your next book is going to sell.

Nonicks said:

They don't understand the unagented writers who would write anything just to get an agent interested in their ms.

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The only thing I can tell you, having glimpsed the other side, is that "any" agent isn't what you want. You really don't want someone who doesn't love your work. The right agent will give you the best chance of selling your book. The wrong agent can set you back years.

I know how it feels. I'm feeling it now, as I query myself. And I can't give you the best answer for your book and your career. I can say, based on what I've seen, that most agents want to enjoy a good read of a book they can sell. You can have the strongest female protagonist in the world, but if they can't identify the market, they'll probably pass.

Sometimes it helps me to think of it as a job interview: yeah, they need to like me. But if I want this to be a career, I have to like them, too, and they have to be able to offer me the right kind of career development. Yes, it's difficult to make yourself be choosy, given the supply/demand balance. But this person is going to be working on your behalf. Focusing on getting any offer risks missing the most important things about a successful agent/author relationship.

Nonicks said:

This new novel is for adults, not young adults or middle grade.

As for the YA novels, I don't think it matters if boys don't want to read books with female leads. Your book won't reach any book stores if agents (and editors) don't acquire it (I don't want to self publish); it only matters what agents want to see in their inboxes. I'm not Pierce Brown and I can't afford to write whatever I want. I think most of the people here have already been published and they have agents. So they just write whatever they want. They don't understand the unagented writers who would write anything just to get an agent interested in their ms.

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You have some wrong assumptions about being a published author or getting an agent. I have several published author friends and I can assure you they cannot write just whatever they want and they actually had pitches turn down by their agents regarding book 2 or 3, etc...

Also writing anything is not what will get you an agent, what will get you an agent is to write something you are passionate about while understanding the market and the industry.

Elle. said:

Also writing anything is not what will get you an agent, what will get you an agent is to write something you are passionate about while understanding the market and the industry.

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This is worth repeating.

Male protagonists sell. Female protagonists sell, too, but male protagonists absolutely sell, and agents know this.

One thing that might reassure you, OP, is to find out who the agent in question reps, and what books they've sold recently. I've found some of this on agency web sites, and some through QueryTracker links. It's not always all that easy to find, but you can usually find at least a few author's names and a title or two.

Albedo said:

It's mind emboggling, I tell ya, the lengths adults will go to enforce wild hoodoo bullshit like 'boys don't want to read/watch movies about girls' on their offspring, and then turn out surprised when they turn into toxic adults themselves who literally can't empathize with female human beings. Give boys books about girls ffs.

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And contrariwise.

Nonicks said:

Hi everybody,

I have a new idea for a novel (just wanted to keep myself busy while the agents who asked to read my full ms are still considering), and my question is: should I choose a female or a male protagonist? I have a male protagonist in my mind, but I noticed that most of the agents seek manuscripts with "a strong female protagonist". This doesn't mean an automatic rejection only because my novel has a male lead, but could it mean that agents are more likely to ask for my full if I have a female MC?

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Nonicks said:

This new novel is for adults, not young adults or middle grade.

As for the YA novels, I don't think it matters if boys don't want to read books with female leads. Your book won't reach any book stores if agents (and editors) don't acquire it (I don't want to self publish); it only matters what agents want to see in their inboxes. I'm not Pierce Brown and I can't afford to write whatever I want. I think most of the people here have already been published and they have agents. So they just write whatever they want. They don't understand the unagented writers who would write anything just to get an agent interested in their ms.

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Hi Nonicks.

Since you're writing adult fiction, I think you're fine with either gender as your lead (and same would go for middle grade).

If you decide to write YA, then it will be a challenge to have a male lead. The numbers don't lie: on the days I checked the recently published contemporary YA leads (a couple different occasions), about 35 out of 40 were female leads. I've also personally experienced how frustrating it can be to try and sell a YA story with a male lead. I wrote one that got me into Pitch Wars, had tons of betas who fell in love with the story and the male MC, but it didn't get me agent requests UNTIL I put the female MC as the main one in the query and opened the story with her (the male MC's POV was still sent as sample pages with the queries, but came after hers). Then suddenly it had a good request rate. But he was still clearly the protagonist to anyone who read the manuscript, and in the end it resulted in an R&R to make it adult/age up the characters (which I didn't take b/c I don't want to debut outside of YA).


My next story was multi-POV with a female lead/protagonist, and it's request rate was much higher. Betas loved the male MC/his voice in this story, but agents loved the female MC/her voice. So I've definitely experienced a difference between what appeals to agents and readers. (This story is currently paused after too many agents wanted R&Rs and I just don't know what to do with the thing yet.)


For my latest YA, I went strictly female for my POVs (the MC and another girl's journal entries). I've only sent my first queries, and I can't say how it will go, but it's already an improvement (for my first three queries sent: 2 of 3 immediate requests).


I'm not a guy, so it's not a personal thing, but I wish I could write a male MC for YA and still have a real shot at it being traditionally published as a debut (b/c I love to write them and my readers have loved them most). But because I'm so, so, so close and yet still not there, I'm now giving real consideration to exactly what agents are seeking.


Whichever gender you go with, hope it all works out and you're published soon!!


CJ

mafiaking1936 said:

And contrariwise.

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Of course! I mean girls are at an advantage because there's not nearly as much social pressure saying girls shouldn't enjoy things with male protagonists (except maybe in YA? I don't read that genre so I don't know the reason for the female MC bias there), in fact it'd be pretty hard to enjoy much mainstream entertainment if you couldn't, but more empathy all round can only be a good thing.

A fair question, given the strange prejudices that prevail in some quarters of the agenting/publishing world.

The answer is a number: 500 million.

Copies of Harry Potter books sold. And counting...

Sadly, you can't write about wizards unless you are one yourself. Or have I got the the whole cultural appropriation meme a bit mixed up?

DMakinson said:

A fair question, given the strange prejudices that prevail in some quarters of the agenting/publishing world.

The answer is a number: 500 million.

Copies of Harry Potter books sold. And counting...

Sadly, you can't write about wizards unless you are one yourself. Or have I got the the whole cultural appropriation meme a bit mixed up?

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Dearie me. You might need to be more explicit here.

Albedo said:

Of course! I mean girls are at an advantage because there's not nearly as much social pressure saying girls shouldn't enjoy things with male protagonists (except maybe in YA? I don't read that genre so I don't know the reason for the female MC bias there), in fact it'd be pretty hard to enjoy much mainstream entertainment if you couldn't, but more empathy all round can only be a good thing.

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I don't know if I'd call it an advantage, as much as growing up being made to read books by and about men for school. Men are presented as the literary default, and we all internalize that. And culturally women are absolutely taught to have empathy for men.

My perspective is skewed, of course, because I write SFF and I get to watch all the fun culture wars going on there. But my kid, as I mentioned, is 15, and has a tendency to randomly pick up oh-this-looks-interesting books. A fair percentage of them have starred boys. So while it may indeed be a harder sell in YA than in other genres, it's not impossible.

Maybe the more useful conversation is whether or not someone with an identifiably female name is better off publishing with initials, but I'm pretty sure we've had that one before.

lizmonster said:

So while it may indeed be a harder sell in YA than in other genres, it's not impossible.

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Yet one would think agents and publishers would view young men as an underserved (and therefore desirable) audience for YA. There's plenty of middle-grade fiction (or so it appears to me) to appeal to boys, but very little in the YA arena. Is YA really a more female-centric market, generally speaking? (Or at least, has it become one in recent years?) And if so, why?

From my own casual observation, it seems like the average male reader leaves MG behind at some point and as a teen/young adult leaps over YA and goes straight to adult fiction, and, at a guess, much of that in the sff genre or thrillers and the like. Girls and young women, OTOH, linger over YA well into their adult years. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, mind, but it seems to me to represent a curious gap in the market for young men.

Nonicks, from what you've said here success and notoriety seem to be what you're most concerned with, and you're looking for a formula for overnight success. I don't really know how to address that, but if you believe your writing and plot are good enough to be a non-issue, then whether your protagonist is male or female isn't going to matter.

BethS said:

Yet one would think agents and publishers would view young men as an underserved (and therefore desirable) audience for YA. There's plenty of middle-grade fiction (or so it appears to me) to appeal to boys, but very little in the YA arena. Is YA really a more female-centric market, generally speaking? (Or at least, has it become one in recent years?) And if so, why?

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Based on my own observations? Publishers will buy what they think will sell. Yes, they tend to be staffed by book lovers, and they'll take some chances sometimes, but fundamentally they're commercial ventures and they need to make money. If they're aiming YA books explicitly at girls, it's because that's where the money is right now. If they perceive a shift there, what they buy will shift as well, but it's worth remembering that the new releases on bookstore shelves were purchased 2 years ago and often represent trends that are considered too old for anything they're buying today.

Which is why chasing trends is pointless, and you should write your story as best you can. And if you're one of those people who's trying to position your work for commercial viability - and there's not a thing wrong with doing that; many published authors do - what's in stores now probably isn't your best guideline.

Write your male protagonist, and write him very well.

All my protaganists are male. All of them are also queer. One is a queer Jewish convert in magical 1890's Chicago.

That's not to say that marginalized boys are more interesting. It's to say that there's so much ground to cover with male protagonists that you have ample opportunity to create a gripping, unique male MC.