My beta doesn't want to be a beta (in a good way) AKA A saga of getting a crit partner with anxiety

starrystorm · Aug 2, 2019

Kjbartolotta said:
Please be careful with this person, I don't completely get the context of the relationship but it sounds like you're not being treated as well as you deserve. I know you said you have selective mutism, if this person respects you they'll understand that instead of making you feel bad and needling at you. I know this person seems to have a positive, beneficial interest in you, and that very well might be the case, but it's a red flag and, personally, I would get out of there if someone decided they would talk to me like that.

This partner might still be helpful, I might be misreading, but your social anxiety in not the problem and I kind of think that's mean of them. Especially if they're promising big things and then focusing on inappropriate things. Remember, what opportunities may be presented here, you have a great community in AW who's only goal is to help, inform, and have fun and no one here would talk to you like that.

Than you for your concern, but actually although I labeled it as bad news at the time, I'm over it. It was really the way my mom told me. If my crit partner had said it to my face I wouldn't have been upset. I guess I just felt like I was disappointing my Mom that made me bitter.

I actually wanted her to point out this kind of stuff. Realizing the problem is the only way to get over it. For someone with selective mutism it is really beneficial.

Sorry if the previous post came off the wrong way. My crit partner is the best I could ask for.

starrystorm · Aug 2, 2019

Kat M said:
Why is she telling your mom this? Is she aware that talking on the phone is so difficult for you? Is that something you're comfortable with her knowing? I mean, yes, it's definitely something to work on, but it seems like she could be a bit more understanding as well at this point.

If she enjoys it, then you have something to hang your hat on. Something about your story works. One of your chickens has hatched. (and there are no chicken emojis . . . alas, cruel world)

Yes she is aware. Besides, her and my mom know each other from church and chat occasionally and I guess my book was one of the subjects that came up.

starrystorm · Aug 2, 2019

lizmonster said:
The good news is great.

The bad news? Let me try to moderate my response, which is something like OH HELL NO. If you were my daughter, I'd tell you to thank this person for the help she's given you so far, professionally detach yourself, and never make yourself vulnerable to her again, full stop.

FFS, what does how quickly you respond to comments have to do with helping you grow as a writer? In a situation like yours, you can bet I'd think for a bit before I spoke and not use more words than I absolutely had to, and I am 55 years old. What on Earth does she have on her agenda that involves how you answer questions? And why is she explaining all this to your mom?

I wish for you an independent crit partner who focuses on your writing and doesn't feel the need to critique your social skills.

I actually wanted her to critique my social skills since she is friends with my mother and knows how I struggle with selective mutsim. I didn't find it strange she critted my social skills at all-- a lot of people I know say these kinds of things to my mom, maybe because they don't want to say it to my face. For me it's actually helpful.

lizmonster · Aug 2, 2019

I'm sure your mom is wonderful. I'm sure her friends are lovely. I'm sure everyone wants to be helpful.

My advice to you: get your mother out of your crit loop. That means none of her friends, none of her fellow churchgoers, nobody she knows personally. All of these people are seeing you as a child first and a writer second. I have strong doubts that such people can effectively help you grow your craft.

I know you and your sister help each other out with writing. Is there a local crit group you could join together? (Check meetup.com or facebook to see if anything is organized in your area.) It may seem counterintuitive, but what you want to grow as a writer are people with no investment in your life past the pages you give them to read.

Good luck no matter what you do.

KBooks · Aug 2, 2019

starrystorm said:
Bad--She told my mom when we were talking that I mainly responded with one word answers and had big pauses between when she finished speaking and when I answered. Feels like I've been punched in the stomach. I never knew I had that problem. I mean, yes, I responded with one word answers, only because I thought they were yes and no questions, but i never realized about the pause. I'm going to have to try to be quicker next time, so she doesn't feel like I didn't understand her.

I'm sorry, but... this is SUPER inappropriate of her. She should be treating you like a crit partner. She is not there to talk to your mother about her ideas about how you may or may not respond to her. Waaayy out of bounds. It is completely unprofessional for her to be talking to your mother about you, period. She's not your therapist. She's not your elementary school teacher. I don't blame you for having that socked in the stomach feeling. I would feel really betrayed at this point.

And by the way, I have never met in person with a crit partner or beta. It's always been over email. So that's a perfectly valid way of communicating back and forth about story ideas. I just... it makes me really angry on your behalf to hear that someone treated you that way.

Kjbartolotta · Aug 2, 2019

starrystorm said:
Than you for your concern, but actually although I labeled it as bad news at the time, I'm over it. It was really the way my mom told me. If my crit partner had said it to my face I wouldn't have been upset. I guess I just felt like I was disappointing my Mom that made me bitter.

I actually wanted her to point out this kind of stuff. Realizing the problem is the only way to get over it. For someone with selective mutism it is really beneficial.

Sorry if the previous post came off the wrong way. My crit partner is the best I could ask for.

Just remember that this is a person you're putting a lot of trust in, and they need to be responsible & respectful enough to earn that trust. That very well be the case, but if you're feeling uncomfortable with this person or that they're making you feel bad about yourself (or, tbh, not treating you like an adult) it's not worth it. And I think someone who wants to help you with your social anxiety needs to have a lot of understanding of the issue, or else they can do harm even when not intending to.

And, on a side note, I HATE talking to anyone on the phone. It's torture and I get panics attacks just hearing a phone ringing. It's a problem and even though I'm a fair bit older than you, it's something I can work through but isn't going away. But I've had a lifetime of people criticizing me for this, as well as 'Why are you so shy?' and 'Look people in the eyes when you're talking to them' and it's never, ever helped me one bit. So I feel what you're going through here.

You're an adult and understand this situation better than I do, but during this process I hope you understand that what you've accomplished with your writing is AMAZING. I've wanted to be a writer my whole life, and when I was 19 there's no way I had the patience and passion that you do, or the willingness to put yourself out there in order to improve your craft. You're awesome and don't let people make you feel otherwise, even if they just want to help.

Kat M · Aug 2, 2019

Gigantic disclaimer: I'm offering free advice without being asked for it, which is ironic given what I'm about to say.

But . . . Starrystorm, I've been thinking about this all morning. I do want to affirm and celebrate that you want to grow your social skills. That's absolutely necessary because this world expects a certain amount of conformity. And so I'm sure you did find her comments helpful. That's great. Use them!

But did you ask her to critique your social skills? Or just your writing?

I like what KBooks said: "She's not your therapist. She's not your elementary school teacher." And you're a lot older than elementary school. You're an adult. People (outside of maybe your mum) should only be offering this sort of critique if you ask them to. Otherwise it's not their business. (I realize I sound like I'm talking down to you. I'm sorry, I'm used to talking to my seven-year-old students. I know you're a lot older than seven.)

And if you did ask her, I would echo what other people said and divorce social skill coaching from writing coaching. One reason among many being, it's far too easy to attach our self-worth to our writing.

starrystorm · Aug 2, 2019

I hope I am not upsetting people but really, I am okay with what she said. The reference to being punched in the stomach was was misleading. I do not hate or feel betrayed by my crit partner at all. I know my mother must have said something to her behind my back. Like, so how did starrystorm respond to you ? And, did she use complete sentences?

My mom has been doing this since we first learned about my condition. Even into high school she would call each of my teachers and tell them about my selective mutism. I finally caught her senior year and was mortified. I have no doubt she was just trying to be protective.

Some of you mentioned this raising red flags, and although I appreciate it, I think I will still work with her.

And by knowing my mom I mean they are in the same Bible study group. My mom did not know where she lived, if she had pets, or if she was published. My crit partner is more like my mom's classmate than a friend.

Thank you for listening and I hope this clears things up.

Woollybear · Aug 2, 2019

I believe you.

I can imagine lots of lovely and supportive ways the conversation might have happened.

It always depends where the person's heart is, and where the comment is coming from. After our child died long ago, one or two people said "You should get a puppy." That's hugely inappropriate, on the other hand for where their heart was at (in a loving place), and what they had to draw on to form a response (nothing comparable), i understood what they were saying was "I hurt for you. I want you to not hurt." They just used the wrong words.

I'm really glad, Starrystorm, that you are happy with the arrangement.

Kat M · Aug 2, 2019

You're not upsetting me. I believe you, too. I only want to make sure you're OK because the boundaries in this situation are all over the place, and as a teacher and a young woman who has trouble with boundaries myself, it worried me. Maybe that's a boundary you don't need to set right now, but a lot of us would, and we just want to help you feel comfortable setting it, if that's what you want.

Your mum clearly loves you dearly and wants the very best for you, but you do have the right, at nineteen, to push back a bit if her protectiveness is not working for you. But perhaps it's just what you need right now. You know yourself. Ultimately, you make the decisions, and it sounds like you're happy with where things are right now. So good luck and best wishes.

mccardey · Aug 2, 2019

I'm going to step in quietly and say that I'm really glad she was so positive about your writing, Starry. That must be very exciting for you, and very affirming as well.

I wouldn't worry too much if she also spoke about your communication style, unless she'd done it maliciously which doesn't sound the case. It sounds more like she was answering a question, and in your mum's case (as someone who had helped set up the meeting, who is talking to a trusted friend) I have to say I'd have asked the same question in a general kind of way. Do try to remember to see your crit partner's response to that as just a response - not a criticism. Your communication style is your own - you can keep it or change it.

I think you're doing very well, and it's lovely that people are enjoying your work. Well done!! It must have been scarey for you, but you're making terrific progress.

Roxxsmom · Aug 2, 2019

Gillhoughly said:
Um, no. A beta is anyone who reads your work and offers comments. She's a touch mixed up on her definitions or perhaps she wants to feel or look more important than being a "mere" beta. Let her have her illusions.

Gilhoughtly beat me to it. Your mentor's definition of beta is far from universal. I personally think of a beta reader (offering feedback on a draft that is finished and as polished as you can make it) as different from a crit partner (provides feedback as you are creating the story), though.

However, I find it a bit worrisome she said she was a published author and then backed off and said she's an editor. Not that an editor wouldn't be a good beta reader (probably even better than a writer), but I don't think you'd be amiss asking for the titles of some of the books she's worked on so you can see what her style is. Also, find out what kind of editor she is. An editor who provides feedback about story structure or provides feedback about your writing style is different from one who pores over manuscripts, looking for typos or grammar errors.

Also, as Gilhoughtly said, someone whose expertise, or even tastes, lie in a different genre than your work, might not be the best match. Someone who edits cozy mysteries might not be a good editor for a space opera or a work of epic fantasy (or a period romance, or a work of contemporary fiction).

I also find the comments she made to your mom about your communication style to be odd. Is it her job to report to your mother about your social interactions with her?

starrystorm · Aug 2, 2019

Roxxsmom said:
Gilhoughtly beat me to it. Your mentor's definition of beta is far from universal. I personally think of a beta reader (offering feedback on a draft that is finished and as polished as you can make it) as different from a crit partner (provides feedback as you are creating the story), though.

However, I find it a bit worrisome she said she was a published author and then backed off and said she's an editor. Not that an editor wouldn't be a good beta reader (probably even better than a writer), but I don't think you'd be amiss asking for the titles of some of the books she's worked on so you can see what her style is. Also, find out what kind of editor she is. An editor who provides feedback about story structure or provides feedback about your writing style is different from one who pores over manuscripts, looking for typos or grammar errors.

I also find the comments she made to your mom about your communication style to be odd. Is it her job to report to your mother about your social interactions with her?

Lots of questions so here we go:

1) I don't agree on what she said a beta was. I love having betas and plan on asking AW again once I finish with this particular run-through.
2) She never said she was a published author, I just assumed she was. And thanks, I'll ask those questions for next time.
3) Well, no, but my mom probably asked how I did when we met, and she responded honestly. (see my latest post for more answers on that.)

Roxxsmom · Aug 2, 2019

starrystorm said:
My mom has been doing this since we first learned about my condition. Even into high school she would call each of my teachers and tell them about my selective mutism. I finally caught her senior year and was mortified. I have no doubt she was just trying to be protective.
.

I read this post after I made the one above. I was a shy kid. I was never diagnosed with selective mutism, and I eventually outgrew the issue of feeling tongue tied when talking to strangers, but even as someone who is no spring chicken, I am not always as socially appropriate as I'd like (my coping mechanism was to focus so much on what I wanted to say instead of the other person's anxiety provoking (and distracting) social signals, I tend to talk too much and too fast and get off on too many tangents still when I get excited about something or anxious in a social situation.

When I was a young kid, my mom would sometimes talk to teachers and parents of schoolmates about my shyness. I don't know how much of this was a genuine desire to help me versus a desire to assure people she hadn't raised a rude or inattentive kid (maybe both). My childhood social anxieties were a big deal in our family, something my parents--both very bold, direct people--never quite got about me.

By the time I was in highschool, though, my mom stopped running interference for me. She certainly stopped doing it by the time I was an adult.

I know everyone's situation and family are different, and if it doesn't bother you, that's fine. But in the earlier post you described feeling like you'd been punched in the stomach when your mom told you this woman had reported on your communication style, and that's what I was responding to.

My beta doesn't want to be a beta (in a good way) AKA A saga of getting a crit partner with anxiety

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