Being a Police Officer While Black

cornflake · Jul 15, 2019

No, I'm not kidding. I don't even with this fucking one.

A fully-uniformed Ohio sheriff's deputy (there's video -- there's no question, if you have working eyes and live in 'merica, that the guy is an actual cop. He's in a full, traditional-looking uniform with visible patches, badge, star, belt, gun, yada). who is also visibly black walked into an IRS office during business hours to inquire about a letter he'd received.

The white security guard in the office noticed that the on-duty cop (again, full uniform, belt, etc.), was carrying his service weapon. So the security guard told the cop that he could not bring a gun into the IRS offices (which in general seems reasonable, If the people enforcing that rule were of sound mind). The cop says that he cannot take off his weapon and like, leave it in his car as he's on duty and thus required to carry his service weapon on his person.

So the security guard pulls his gun and points it at the cop, who decides he'll just come back another time. The security guard follows the sheriff, as he's walking calmly to the elevator, with a loaded weapon drawn and pointed at the cop's back, then tries to apprehend him. The cop, I dunno how, remained calm, though he says he was fully expecting to be shot in the back any moment. Video!

Good for Ohio, the guy has been charged.

A security guard has pleaded Not Guilty to one charge of aggravated menacing Monday in his first court appearance since he pulled a gun on a Lucas County Sheriff's Deputy at a local IRS office...

Deputy Gaston says the guard told him he needed to put his gun in his car. Gaston said he couldn't do that. The conversation ends with a gun pointed at the deputy's back. Gaston vividly remembers "that" moment.

"Basically preparing myself to be shot at that moment. Bracing for a shot in my back," said Gaston.

The whole thing caught on security cameras, as the guard follows deputy Gaston to the elevator with the gun out and it appears his finger very close to the trigger. The guard then tries to take Gaston into custody, once again with the gun drawn.

"There's really no way to know how you're going to act when there's a gun pointed at you and when you think you're going to lose your life," said Gaston.

Gaston works as a defensive tactics instructor. He says he felt the best way to de-escalate the situation was to walk away. Eventually, Toledo police arrived after getting a 911 call. But the caller from inside the IRS office never tells 911 the man with the gun is a uniformed deputy sheriff.

Gaston's biggest concern as this incident unfolded were the other people in the office.

"If I'm going to get shot, like I thought I was, it's not fair. They came in there to do their business," said Gaston.

Snitchcat · Jul 15, 2019

This is beyond ridiculous, even for the current GOP. What this is, is anyone's guess, but to me, it's certainly a situation where insanity rules and entitled white arseholes feel free to act out their bigoted fantasies.

What did the security guard want to do with the gun? Threaten? Show how 'big' he was? Really? IMO, you don't draw your gun unless you plan on shooting someone, whether or not you issue a warning verbally prior to shooting.

Sage · Jul 15, 2019

The 9-1-1 call: "He's got a gun and he won't leave." When the video clearly shows the officer leaving immediately after the quick discussion about the gun, and then getting on the elevator as soon as it arrives, which the security guard stops so he can't leave.

Snitchcat · Jul 15, 2019

Wow... the lengths people will go to to justify their viewpoint. Grr.

(I can't watch the vid; I'm at work.)

cornflake · Jul 15, 2019

Snitchcat said:
This is beyond ridiculous, even for the current GOP. What this is, is anyone's guess, but to me, it's certainly a situation where insanity rules and entitled white arseholes feel free to act out their bigoted fantasies.

What did the security guard want to do with the gun? Threaten? Show how 'big' he was? Really? IMO, you don't draw your gun unless you plan on shooting someone, whether or not you issue a warning verbally prior to shooting.

The delusion/whatever was going on in the guy's imagination doesn't seem to have taken into account that in that situation, the other person had a loaded weapon at the ready, and training in shooting at people. Like -- it wasn't some kook waving a pistol around to threaten people. There's a reason people commit suicide by cop: it often works.

Dumbassed on every possible level.

Sage said:
The 9-1-1 call: "He's got a gun and he won't leave." When the video clearly shows the officer leaving immediately after the quick discussion about the gun, and then getting on the elevator as soon as it arrives, which the security guard stops so he can't leave.

This is why this one is so beyond, imo. He's got a gun. Oh, the fully-uniformed officer has a gun, in his gun belt? Does he? Just wtf happened besides 'scary bald black man?' I mean I'm open to there being some other explanation; I just can't come up with one myself.

Marian Perera · Jul 15, 2019

cornflake said:
Just wtf happened besides 'scary bald black man?'

What more need have happened?

I'm sure for some people this is the be-all and end-all of the matter. Black people shouldn't be cops, have guns, have rights, live among us, etc.

Snitchcat · Jul 15, 2019

Marian Perera said:
I'm sure for some people this is the be-all and end-all of the matter. Black people shouldn't be cops, have guns, have rights, live among us, etc.

In which case, for those people, if slavery had never happened in the first place, then they wouldn't have to be so bigoted about black people living among them.

Marian Perera · Jul 15, 2019

Snitchcat said:
In which case, for those people, if slavery had never happened in the first place, then they wouldn't have to be so bigoted about black people living among them.

Not quite. For those people, I'm guessing slavery was not a problem. It was the Emancipation Proclamation, the civil rights movement, a black president, etc. that upended the natural order.

cornflake · Jul 15, 2019

Marian Perera said:
What more need have happened?

I'm sure for some people this is the be-all and end-all of the matter. Black people shouldn't be cops, have guns, have rights, live among us, etc.

I can't think of anything else but I was trying to not be too judgmental about it? I dunno. It's so tiring -- and boring -- the knee-jerk racism. This was just with so much extra jerk it seemed to border on the impossibly silly. He's got a gun.... that.... on-duty cop over there.

Ari Meermans · Jul 16, 2019

cornflake said:
I can't think of anything else but I was trying to not be too judgmental about it? I dunno. It's so tiring -- and boring -- the knee-jerk racism. This was just with so much extra jerk it seemed to border on the impossibly silly. He's got a gun.... that.... on-duty cop over there.

I'm surrounded by people like that security guard; almost my entire famdamily is like that. And I can tell you, at most . . . at MOST, they can hold two basic thoughts at the same time. It looks like the security guard's two thoughts ran: "no guns allowed in IRS office" and "big, scary black man with gun". That's it; no room for critical thinking skills at all. So what you have there is a cocktail of rank stupidity and racism. Which, come to think of it, is the common mixture I deal with.

mccardey · Jul 16, 2019

Snitchcat said:
This is beyond ridiculous, even for the current GOP. What this is, is anyone's guess,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say maybe I dunno racism? Maybe?

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 16, 2019

Wait - They called 911 on the cop???

ElaineA · Jul 16, 2019

I live in a very large neighborhood (1500 homes) in a suburb that is outside any city limits. We are dependent on county cops, and several years ago, the county cut our area down to 1 or 2 cops responsible for our 20 sq mile unincorporated area. We had a rash of mischief (car prowls, home burglaries, vandalism) so our neighborhood began using a security service. At first we had some top-notch patrol officers. Kind, patient, observant, mostly ex-military. But as they quit, they were replaced with some of the least intelligent, frankly idiotic, people I have ever interacted with. The problem is the job is so horrifically low-paying, the hours are long, and the work is mind-numbing.

So I'm not at all surprised at the completely unqualified level of this security guard, and he *should* be arrested (good that he was), but there is a responsibility on the employer, too. Pay people a reasonable wage, give them benefits, get better people for jobs that include "will carry a loaded weapon" in the job description. AND TRAIN THEM PROPERLY, ffs.

cornflake · Jul 16, 2019

Alessandra Kelley said:
Wait - They called 911 on the cop???

He was armed! And black! He brought his gun in the IRS office (because he went in there on his break, while on duty, in full uniform, during business hours, to inquire about a personal business matter with the IRS)!

Ari Meermans said:
I'm surrounded by people like that security guard; almost my entire famdamily is like that. And I can tell you, at most . . . at MOST, they can hold two basic thoughts at the same time. It looks like the security guard's two thoughts ran: "no guns allowed in IRS office" and "big, scary black man with gun". That's it; no room for critical thinking skills at all. So what you have there is a cocktail of rank stupidity and racism. Which, come to think of it, is the common mixture I deal with.

Geez. It sounds a hard place to live without bringing a screaming pillow everywhere.

Marian Perera · Jul 16, 2019

ElaineA said:
So I'm not at all surprised at the completely unqualified level of this security guard, and he *should* be arrested (good that he was), but there is a responsibility on the employer, too. Pay people a reasonable wage, give them benefits, get better people for jobs that include "will carry a loaded weapon" in the job description. AND TRAIN THEM PROPERLY, ffs.

What scares me about people like this is that drawing the gun is their first response (and after you've drawn your gun, what else can you do except fire it?). There's no apparent attempt at talking or de-escalating the conflict. The gun is the easy, go-to answer.

As the cop said "The fact that you went from zero to one hundred - lethal force - is unacceptable."

According to the video, the cop is now on medical leave, dealing with the psychological stress of believing he's going to be murdered at any moment. I hope he wins his lawsuit against the guard and the security company.

cornflake · Jul 16, 2019

ElaineA said:
I live in a very large neighborhood (1500 homes) in a suburb that is outside any city limits. We are dependent on county cops, and several years ago, the county cut our area down to 1 or 2 cops responsible for our 20 sq mile unincorporated area. We had a rash of mischief (car prowls, home burglaries, vandalism) so our neighborhood began using a security service. At first we had some top-notch patrol officers. Kind, patient, observant, mostly ex-military. But as they quit, they were replaced with some of the least intelligent, frankly idiotic, people I have ever interacted with. The problem is the job is so horrifically low-paying, the hours are long, and the work is mind-numbing.

So I'm not at all surprised at the completely unqualified level of this security guard, and he *should* be arrested (good that he was), but there is a responsibility on the employer, too. Pay people a reasonable wage, give them benefits, get better people for jobs that include "will carry a loaded weapon" in the job description. AND TRAIN THEM PROPERLY, ffs.

I observed an evaluation of a security guard candidate once -- some firms do vet carefully. The person would have had a weapon, and there was IQ testing, personality testing, and then an interview. The person did not do well, with a lower-normal IQ, and then couldn't answer hypotheticals in an acceptable way (if you saw X, what would you do first? What if no one was there/no one answered? What if...? -- there wasn't one "correct" exact answer, you just had to make sense, be safe, follow basic procedures, etc. ) and wasn't offered a position, but it was very professionally-handled, etc. It's also expensive to do.

Roxxsmom · Jul 16, 2019

Utterly sickening.

Shit like this is probably nothing new, even for Black cops, but I can't help wondering if it's become more common in the past couple years. Rot seems to be spreading from the top down in this country. It's like we got a big injection of stupid juice with an infusion of hate.

talktidy · Jul 16, 2019

Looks like the cop did his best to de-escalate, but the guard...

Fingers · Jul 16, 2019

Devils advocate here. There are signs saying no weapons allowed before you go into any government office here, whether state, county, or federal. I understand that officers sometimes do business on their breaks/lunch hours. But I think the officer was stupid to go into a federal office building while carrying a weapon while not on duty. Just because he has a uniform and a badge doesnt give him special rights. Did the security go total overboard by pulling his weapon, absolutely he did. Any consequences for that action will be well deserved. But the officer should have known better in this day and age of 'homeland security' than to have tried to carry his weapon into a government office in an unofficial capacity. I have a concealed carry permit and that doesnt give me the right to carry my weapon into any government offices. His badge and uniform dont give him that right either. Lots of blame to go around on this one.

Coddiwomple · Jul 16, 2019

Fingers said:
I have a concealed carry permit and that doesnt give me the right to carry my weapon into any government offices. His badge and uniform dont give him that right either. Lots of blame to go around on this one.

Do you have a citation for this? The police officer was on duty. I found plenty of information regarding off-duty carry — the rules vary — but for an on-duty officer? I'd like to see some basis for your claim that his uniform and badge don’t give him the right to walk into a government office while carrying.

Without anything to back up that claim, I'll have to strongly disagree that there's lots of blame to go around.

MaeZe · Jul 16, 2019

Alessandra Kelley said:
Wait - They called 911 on the cop???

No to mention, the guy pulled his gun on the cop!!!

The cop didn't even argue about anything, at least it doesn't look like it, he just turned and walked out.

Cop-wannabe felt the need for some action?? It makes zero sense.

Just as an aside, I needed to talk to the IRS and the wait on the phone was going to be an hour or more. And, if you want to see them in person, you need an appointment for which you have to call and wait an hour to get.

cornflake · Jul 16, 2019

Fingers said:
Devils advocate here. There are signs saying no weapons allowed before you go into any government office here, whether state, county, or federal. I understand that officers sometimes do business on their breaks/lunch hours. But I think the officer was stupid to go into a federal office building while carrying a weapon while not on duty. Just because he has a uniform and a badge doesnt give him special rights. Did the security go total overboard by pulling his weapon, absolutely he did. Any consequences for that action will be well deserved. But the officer should have known better in this day and age of 'homeland security' than to have tried to carry his weapon into a government office in an unofficial capacity. I have a concealed carry permit and that doesnt give me the right to carry my weapon into any government offices. His badge and uniform dont give him that right either. Lots of blame to go around on this one.

On-duty law enforcement are exempt from those rules (and in some places and circumstances, off-duty, but that's heavily dependent) as . First, it's not like he can take it off. Second, well, say someone called the cops from the IRS office (like a racist, moronic security guard). They then couldn't, if that rule applied, enter the office to respond.

Not to mention plenty of federal offices of all stripes have those rules, and employ federal law enforcement personnel of all stripes. Do you think the FBI agents don't carry their service weapons into their own offices?

MaeZe · Jul 16, 2019

cornflake said:
On-duty law enforcement are exempt from those rules (and in some places and circumstances, off-duty, but that's heavily dependent) as . First, it's not like he can take it off. Second, well, say someone called the cops from the IRS office (like a racist, moronic security guard). They then couldn't, if that rule applied, enter the office to respond.

Not to mention plenty of federal offices of all stripes have those rules, and employ federal law enforcement personnel of all stripes. Do you think the FBI agents don't carry their service weapons into their own offices?

The irony, the responding officers had their weapons. :tongue

frimble3 · Jul 16, 2019

MaeZe said:
No to mention, the guy pulled his gun on the cop!!!

The cop didn't even argue about anything, at least it doesn't look like it, he just turned and walked out.

Cop-wannabe felt the need for some action?? It makes zero sense.

Just as an aside, I needed to talk to the IRS and the wait on the phone was going to be an hour or more. And, if you want to see them in person, you need an appointment for which you have to call and wait an hour to get.

That gives them time to run a security check on you, and put the security guard on a leash.
I realize the security guards are there to keep the staff (and customers) safe, but I'll bet when the guard pulled his gun, all kinds of freaking out went on. Even if the staff do drills, just in case, I wonder how many of them had to take a sick day to get their blood-pressure down.

Thomas Vail · Jul 22, 2019

Fingers said:
Devils advocate here. There are signs saying no weapons allowed before you go into any government office here, whether state, county, or federal. I understand that officers sometimes do business on their breaks/lunch hours. But I think the officer was stupid to go into a federal office building while carrying a weapon while not on duty. Just because he has a uniform and a badge doesnt give him special rights. Did the security go total overboard by pulling his weapon, absolutely he did. Any consequences for that action will be well deserved. But the officer should have known better in this day and age of 'homeland security' than to have tried to carry his weapon into a government office in an unofficial capacity. I have a concealed carry permit and that doesnt give me the right to carry my weapon into any government offices. His badge and uniform dont give him that right either. Lots of blame to go around on this one.

No, you're not playing devil's advocate, you're just wrong on all counts. The only blame to go around is on the rentadope Paul Blart, no one else.

If that was an actual 'firearms forbidden' location then there would have been a security checkpoint where people who have to be responsible for their weapons at all times (e.g. police) would have their gun logged and secured. Since it wasn't, then that wasn't a firearm restricted area.

Being a Police Officer While Black

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