Redefining Human Rights

I fully expect this to result in a return to the national roots of white male (Christian) landowners being the only humans with any rights whatsoever, projected globally.

The rest of us will no longer be deemed human enough to matter.

And I can't stop it.

There's nothing I can do or say that can stop it...

lizmonster said:

I too am feeling helpless and frustrated, and would welcome any suggestions.

I googled "secession Massachusetts" this morning, which should tell you where my head's at.

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We had a local congresswoman visit our work last week, and when she asked for questions it was all I could do not to openly ask "How do we protect our state, because the federal level's clearly lost?"...

I look at what's happening in Brazil, and suspect we'll see more of this here: people fleeing the US for their safety, due to being one of the "undesirables".

New generation of political exiles leave Bolsonaro's Brazil 'to stay alive'

The Guardian said:

The four exiles all describe a cocktail of threats from paramilitary gangs, rightwing extremists and a nihilistic dark-web forum whose users spew hate for leftists, women and black people.

At times those threats coincided with abuse or defamatory lies shared online by high-profile followers of Brazil’s far-right president.

Diniz was put under police protection weeks before an unprecedented supreme court hearing last year to discuss decriminalising abortion.

Threats to kill her and massacre her students and colleagues at the University of Brasília arrived via WhatsApp and email. Diniz left Brazil after the hearing and is now working as a visiting researcher at Brown University in the United States; her husband is unemployed and she is far from her ageing parents.

“Leaving Brazil has a tremendous impact,” she said. “It is a horrible experience.”

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My kid is already aware not to trust government. As a former government worker from multiple generations of government workers, that's painful at times. I feel responsible for this world she's growing up in. Meanwhile, her grandparents and great-grandparents are inclined to blame me, too. Maybe they could have tried harder, or cared more back when I explained what I thought could be done? No?

I will listen to my child and anyone else in her generation willing to talk about how people should be taking care of each other.

Anyway, I noticed NPR didn't link to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

There are iconographs that summarize these that go around every year. In my opinion, more educational memes are needed. These "universal rights" feel far removed from what can be expected in daily life. The U.S. redefined these rights a long time ago. I'm not sure the average American today so much as knows "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" are "inalienable rights".

https://zenpencils.com/comic/134-the-universal-declaration-of-human-rights/

I feel for all of you. All of us, really, as I look at some of our Federal candidates.
This thread title might well have stopped at 'Redefining Human'.

Elevating concerns about religious freedom and abortion? It's good that they want to make sure US foreign policy doesn't stop people from having abortions in the name of other people's religious beliefs.

Oh, wait, right, this is the GOP we're talking about, so they're flogging the 'ol "Christians are a persecuted minority in the US" thing again (remember when they used to call themselves the "moral majority"?)

Seriously, though, I was unaware that American foreign policy supported any policies that force women to have abortions against their will, whether their will be for religious reasons or otherwise.

It's frustrating to see the reverse march, now that after so long some human rights activists have finally started equating the rights of women with human rights (as opposed to being a set of "special interest" issues society doesn't have time for).

What a nasty turn! Feel for all of you.

This is not the America I grew up knowing (through media and visits).

There are no words to describe the horrifying road the GOP has taken and forcing on all Americans. Just lots of hugs and empathy for everyone from me.

Roxxsmom said:

... Seriously, though, I was unaware that American foreign policy supported any policies that force women to have abortions against their will, whether their will be for religious reasons or otherwise.....

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Al Franken in Lies: And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right exposed Tom Delay and the whole corrupt business going on in Saipan supported by the Republican Congress.

SF Gate: Saipan Workers Describe Slavery of Sweatshops / They say American Dream turned into nightmare.

The workers were lured from China with the promise of jobs in the US. Then they were taken to Saipan, a US Territory. Clothing made in the sweatshops there could be sold in the US with labels saying, Sold in the USA.

No only could the women not leave, if they got pregnant they had forced abortions.

Republican hypocrisy has a very long history.

Snitchcat said:

What a nasty turn! Feel for all of you.

This is not the America I grew up knowing (through media and visits).

There are no words to describe the horrifying road the GOP has taken and forcing on all Americans. Just lots of hugs and empathy for everyone from me.

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And a few back at'cha.

Brightdreamer said:

We had a local congresswoman visit our work last week, and when she asked for questions it was all I could do not to openly ask "How do we protect our state, because the federal level's clearly lost?"...

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I asked Governor Cuomo (D-NY) the same thing a couple months ago, he said he's concerned, to say the least, and that he's doing everything he can...

MaeZe said:

Al Franken in Lies: And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right exposed Tom Delay and the whole corrupt business going on in Saipan supported by the Republican Congress.

SF Gate: Saipan Workers Describe Slavery of Sweatshops / They say American Dream turned into nightmare.

The workers were lured from China with the promise of jobs in the US. Then they were taken to Saipan, a US Territory. Clothing made in the sweatshops there could be sold in the US with labels saying, Sold in the USA.

No only could the women not leave, if they got pregnant they had forced abortions.

Republican hypocrisy has a very long history.

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But you're missing the point about the oppression of Christians. This is nothing, nothing to the horrors of a conservative being wished "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"!

OT, but next time you happen upon a Jehovah's Witness ask for the 'No Christmas' pamphlet, in which they explain, in a clear and cogent manner, why Christmas is a fake holiday, not promoted in the Bible or by Jesus, at the wrong time of year, and, basically, nonsense.
Might as well call it 'Yule' or 'Winterfest' or 'Saturnalia'. At least 'Season's Greetings' or 'Happy Holidays' is inclusive. It's apparently a holiday for pagans, by pagans, appropriated by the early church fathers in an effort to recruit more pagans ('cause it's not really 'conversion' when you keep all your old ways, is it?).

Back OT, the Witnesses are also, I gather, against abortion, but they don't make a freakin' song and dance about it. It's part of 'do not kill' and the whole blood thing.
I must remember to ask how they feel about birth control and long-term solutions like vasectomies, tampering with the female reproductive organs, etc. They are okay with modern medicine, one just had a hip replacement, another had a heart bypass.

frimble3 said:

Back OT, the Witnesses are also, I gather, against abortion, but they don't make a freakin' song and dance about it. It's part of 'do not kill' and the whole blood thing.
I must remember to ask how they feel about birth control and long-term solutions like vasectomies, tampering with the female reproductive organs, etc. They are okay with modern medicine, one just had a hip replacement, another had a heart bypass.

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Jehovah's Witnesses are apolitical, aren't they? As in they don't vote or participate in civic life? When I've spoken to them, they've said they believe humans can't really do anything to avert the disastrous course we're on--it's all up to God.

Like many other highly religious Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to take conservative positions on social issues. For example, three-quarters (75%) say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, while similar shares oppose same-sex marriage and say homosexuality should be discouraged by society (76% each). Roughly three-quarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses (74%) also reject evolution, saying humans have always existed in their present form since the beginning of time.

But Jehovah’s Witnesses do not commonly advocate for these beliefs in the political sphere. The denomination teaches that its members should remain politically neutral and abstain from voting or participating in “any action to change governments.”

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https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/

At least they aren't among the religious groups trying subvert our political system to create a theocracy.

They have made use of the Judicial Branch of US government, however, often bringing suits challenging things like compulsory Pledge of Allegiance in schools.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/06/why-serena-williams-won-t-vote-for-barack-obama.html

One question I have is why women are more likely to be Christian than men, and why women are more likely than men to be members of extremely conservative sects like Jehovah's witnesses, which preach that women should be subordinate to men. One reason I never was attracted to Christianity, nor to any other mainstream religion, is how male-centric they are--women are so sidelined in its scriptures and the role of women in spreading Early Christianity has been largely erased.

Since I was in high school, at least, Christianity as a political entity in this country has been focused on reversing feminism and re-establishing male domination of women. This has made it very hard for me not to shudder when I hear the word "Christian" (yes, I know not all Christians are misogynists, but so many are, and those are the ones who have co-opted the identity in the public and political sphere).

I'm clearly in a minority for my gender in terms to this aversion, though.

Roxxsmom said:

Since I was in high school, at least, Christianity as a political entity in this country has been focused on reversing feminism and re-establishing male domination of women. This has made it very hard for me not to shudder when I hear the word "Christian" (yes, I know not all Christians are misogynists, but so many are, and those are the ones who have co-opted the identity in the public and political sphere).

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I know a few American Christians IRL who are fine people, who try to live the way that they believe Jesus taught Christians should: Works of charity, acceptance of people rather than judgment of them, etc. Basically, humble “golden rule” behaviors. In my experience, they’re unfortunately the exception.

Introversion said:

I know a few American Christians IRL who are fine people, who try to live the way that they believe Jesus taught Christians should: Works of charity, acceptance of people rather than judgment of them, etc. Basically, humble “golden rule” behaviors. In my experience, they’re unfortunately the exception.

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The Christians I know who are progressive in terms of their views on social issues hate the fact that, in public discourse at least, the term "Christian" is used to refer to very conservative, homophobic, anti-scientific, misogynistic, anti-environmental (yes, that too--because if the rapture is drawing near, then maybe climate change is God's will) etc. viewpoints. More progressive Christians who believe Jesus preached loved and charity are politically invisible.

I do fight my urge to shudder when I learn someone considers themselves Christian (and fight the inclination to assume they will be scarily conservative), and knowing good people of this faith does help. But imo the Abrahamic religions are at their core pretty darned sexist. If I had a need to be part of a faith community, I think I'd rather join one whose core theology is based on more egalitarian principles.

I have a learned mistrust and dislike of any belief system that proclaims theirs is the one, true belief, and that all others are not only wrong, but damned to eternal torture. Usually while banging on about their “loving god”.

But if they just left everyone else alone, I’d treat them as harmless cranks. In the US, they’re anything but harmless.

I think that sexism might be one reason so many women are involved in their churches.
For a long time, it was the only sphere they were allowed into. Chiefly because most men weren't all that interested, unless they could be boss. But at the lower, local levels, women could head committees, organize things, make recommendations. So what if it was about bazaars and nativity plays and what flowers shall we use in the church? It was a day out, with their friends, it gave them a feeling of worth outside the immediate domestic sphere and... there weren't many men in their way.

And sadly, judging others is a popular hobby, like gossip, but with Biblical roots.

frimble3 said:

I think that sexism might be one reason so many women are involved in their churches.
For a long time, it was the only sphere they were allowed into. Chiefly because most men weren't all that interested, unless they could be boss. But at the lower, local levels, women could head committees, organize things, make recommendations. So what if it was about bazaars and nativity plays and what flowers shall we use in the church? It was a day out, with their friends, it gave them a feeling of worth outside the immediate domestic sphere and... there weren't many men in their way.

And sadly, judging others is a popular hobby, like gossip, but with Biblical roots.

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Interesting speculation frimble, but given how almost every religion treats women as inferior beings, sometimes only as property, it doesn't say much for women. Not sure what you are basing that on.

I mean, it's human nature to be judgy. We all do it. I can stare daggers like nobody's business at the guy driving in the breakdown lane because he's too important to wait in line for the exit with the rest of us. But I don't carp on about how I've got a golden after-life ticket and anyone not on my "team" does not.

frimble3 said:

I think that sexism might be one reason so many women are involved in their churches.
For a long time, it was the only sphere they were allowed into. Chiefly because most men weren't all that interested, unless they could be boss. But at the lower, local levels, women could head committees, organize things, make recommendations. So what if it was about bazaars and nativity plays and what flowers shall we use in the church? It was a day out, with their friends, it gave them a feeling of worth outside the immediate domestic sphere and... there weren't many men in their way.

And sadly, judging others is a popular hobby, like gossip, but with Biblical roots.

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I think there's a matter of social conditioning involved. Women are trained from birth to be meek and obedient and hand all power over to a masculine authority: everything churches, particularly hardline Evangelical-type churches, ask of their parishioners. (We're also trained to see physical and emotional abuse as not only our fault, but proof of the abuser's love, and... well, Biblical examples of God metaphorically smacking humanity bloody because "He loves us" are innumerable.) It's reinforced, subtly but persistently, through media and advertising: a good woman is a good churchgoing mother. (See also: the PTA.)

I knew people growing up who were absorbed by local hardline churches. Some were raised in it, but not all. One in particular was clearly looking for love and boundaries that she never got from her own family; her grandmother was the churchgoer. It was very sad, actually, seeing the brainwashing take effect in real time.