Resist Misinformation This Election Season!

MaeZe

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Fake news is 'reinforced by false memories'

One of the things the bots and trolls did in 2016 was prime the pump ahead of their campaign messages.

Keep an eye out for Data Propria, run by Cambridge Analytica alumni, working on Trump 2020 campaign

And I posted this before but it's worth a reminder bump: Tech-savvy rightwingers have been able to ‘game’ the algorithms of internet giants and create a new reality where Hitler is a good guy, Jews are evil and… Donald Trump becomes president

Project Veritas is a James O'Keefe scam business. These are the people that make videos under cover then heavily edit them so the people they've targeted look really bad.
 
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MaeZe

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Trump Allies Target Journalists Over Coverage Deemed Hostile to White House
WASHINGTON — A loose network of conservative operatives allied with the White House is pursuing what they say will be an aggressive operation to discredit news organizations deemed hostile to President Trump by publicizing damaging information about journalists.

It is the latest step in a long-running effort by Mr. Trump and his allies to undercut the influence of legitimate news reporting. Four people familiar with the operation described how it works, asserting that it has compiled dossiers of potentially embarrassing social media posts and other public statements by hundreds of people who work at some of the country’s most prominent news organizations.

The group has already released information about journalists at CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times — three outlets that have aggressively investigated Mr. Trump — in response to reporting or commentary that the White House’s allies consider unfair to Mr. Trump and his team or harmful to his re-election prospects.

Operatives have closely examined more than a decade’s worth of public posts and statements by journalists, the people familiar with the operation said. Only a fraction of what the network claims to have uncovered has been made public, the people said, with more to be disclosed as the 2020 election heats up. The research is said to extend to members of journalists’ families who are active in politics, as well as liberal activists and other political opponents of the president.

In one case the material was from a reporter's teenage years when he lived in Egypt.
“If the @nytimes thinks this settles the matter we can expose a few of their other bigots,” Mr. Schwartz tweeted on Thursday in response to an apologetic tweet from a Times journalist whose anti-Semitic social media posts had just been revealed by the operation. “Lots more where this came from.”...

“It felt like a coordinated attack,” said Mr. Elshamy, who said he had received death threats. “It was overwhelming.”

Mr. Elshamy, who is now 25, said he posted the tweets when he was 15 and 16 years old, growing up in Egypt, when he was still learning English and did not fully grasp the meaning of the words.

“I was repeating slogans heard on the streets during a highly emotional time in my nation’s history,” he said. “I believe that my subsequent work and views over the years redeems for the mistakes I made as a kid.”

While he said he understands “the severity and harm of my comments,” he questioned the motivation of the campaign that cost him his job. “It is a very dirty tactic that they are using to cause as much harm as they can to anyone who is affiliated with these media outlets,” he said. “It actually feels like a competition and every termination or vilification is a point for them.”

Mr. Bannon, at the time the head of Breitbart, oversaw the site’s efforts in 2015 to attack Megyn Kelly, then of Fox News, after she called out Mr. Trump for tweets disparaging women as “fat pigs,” “dogs” and “slobs.” In an interview, he said the work that Mr. Schwartz was undertaking should be seen as a sign that Mr. Trump’s supporters were committed to executing a frontal assault on news media they considered adversarial.



The next article is a very thorough (aka tl but worth reading) discussion in the NYT on how the right is claiming censorship when their dishonest material is banned.

In the Trump Era, a Family’s Fight With Google and Facebook Over Disinformation
The man behind “Willie Horton” and Citizens United built a potent online disinformation mill with his son. Then Big Tech changed the rules.


The article goes well beyond the title; I'm not sure why they chose it.

In the America presented on their news and opinion website, WesternJournal.com, tradition-minded patriots face ceaseless assault by anti-Christian bigots, diseased migrants and race hustlers concocting hate crimes. Danger and outrages loom. A Mexican politician threatens the “takeover” of several American states. Police officers are kicked out of an Arizona Starbucks. Kamala Harris, the Democratic presidential candidate, proposes a “$100 billion handout” for black families.
It's akin to the faux war on Christmas.

The Western Journal is not quite a household name. Until recently, some of its most prolific writers used pseudonyms. Though it publishes scores of stories each week about national politics, the company has no Washington bureau, or any other bureaus. Indeed, it rarely dispatches reporters into the world to gather news firsthand.

In the parallel universe of Facebook, though, The Western Journal has been among the most popular and influential publications in America, shaping the political beliefs of more than 36 million deeply loyal readers and followers. In the three years ending in March, according to a New York Times analysis, Western Journal’s Facebook posts earned three-quarters of a billion shares, likes and comments, almost as many as the combined tally of 10 leading American news organizations that together employ thousands of reporters and editors.

This is why we are in trouble.
Highly partisan news sites on the right far outnumber those on the left, according to a tally published last fall by NewsWhip, an analytics company. Conservative readers rely significantly more on hyperpartisan sites for news than liberal ones, and Facebook itself remains a major source of news for older Americans, who will be central to Republicans’ electoral fortunes next year.

And it started long before Trump.
AUGUST 2008

Floyd Brown and his son, Patrick, set up the website ExposeObama.com, featuring videos linking Barack Obama to gang violence and questioning whether he is a Muslim.

This is the kind of twisted discussion going on on the right trying to make FaceBook and Google's attempt to control real fake news look like censorship of right wing views.

If you believe the lies, and someone stops the lie tellers, that is censorship of your beliefs. How do you deal with that?

2016

In the run-up to the 2016 election, Liftable reaches nearly a billion page views. It takes in $16 million in annual revenue. By the time President Trump is sworn into office, more than 12 million people are arriving on Liftable’s sites each month.

FALL 2017

Facebook’s efforts to crack down on spam, clickbait and coordinated propaganda campaigns take a toll, and traffic to Liftable’s properties begins to drop. By early 2018, it is nearly zero.

MARCH 2018

Floyd Brown declares on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show that Facebook has been “optimized to the thought police.”

As Big Tech cracked down, the Browns promoted another emerging narrative: that platforms like Google and Facebook were biased against the right.

The claim of censorship was not only a political battle cry. It was a business imperative. As Liftable’s Facebook traffic declined, it had moved more aggressively into direct marketing, pitching its reader data and email lists as tool for conservative politicians and political organizations to reach voters. In spring 2018, Liftable hired Gabriel S. Joseph III, a Washington-based operative and a longtime friend of Floyd Brown, to spearhead the business. It was later spun off into a company called Firefly Engagement. Like the elder Mr. Brown, Mr. Joseph has a knack for brass-knuckle political marketing. He is currently appealing a $32 million judgment for a class-action claim that his company illegally spammed millions of people to promote a video about the so-called War on Christmas.

Mr. Brown also appears to have used frowned-upon techniques to game Google’s algorithms. At The Times’s request, Matthew Hindman, a professor at George Washington University and author of “The Internet Trap,” found at least 50 domains linked to the Browns that appeared to be promoting The Western Journal.

Those domains, which included ExposeObama.com, the former website of Floyd Brown’s anti-Obama PAC, have posted nearly 150,000 links to Western Journal articles since 2017, a technique known as “spammy backlinking.” Some are still configured as “doorway sites,” with little more than a rotating collection of Western Journal headlines and links, a tactic to create the appearance of popularity but explicitly banned by Google.

“This is not a new technique,” Mr. Hindman said. “And they can’t have been surprised that Google thought it was cheating.”
 

MaeZe

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TeenVogue: Attacks on Greta Thunberg Come from a Coordinated Network of Climate Change Deniers
“Freak yachting accidents do happen…”

That was how British businessman, Trump ally, and Brexit bankroller Arron Banks responded to the news that Greta Thunberg, the Swedish teen who inspired the school climate strikes movement, was sailing to America to attend the UN Climate Action Summit. His scorn was not unique.

Many people have already spilled thousands of words of commentary explaining how personal attacks on Greta — often lobbed by old white men, sometimes mocking her Aspergers — are unacceptable. But understanding where those attackers come from, ideologically and professionally, casts an important light on some of their dark statements.

That’s because a large subsection of the commentariat driving the abuse of Greta is part of an established network of radical free-marketeer lobby groups — a network that has firm ties to the fossil fuel industry and funders of climate science denial.

The groups are from European countries as well.
... the Brexit Party MEPs join other far-right populist parties in Brussels, including Marine Le Pen’s National Rally (formerly the Front National) and Alternative for Germany (AfD). All are united in their hatred for Greta. Two National Rally MPs recently boycotted her visit to France, and AfD representatives have made coordinated attacks on social media.

Those aggressions were orchestrated by the European Institute for Climate and Energy (EIKE) — an organization known for co-sponsoring events with U.S. free-market think tank, the Heartland Institute.

The article names names:
It’s perhaps unsurprising to find that many of the U.S. commentators verbally assaulting Greta also have ties to the Heartland Institute, given the organisation’s Big Oil funding and long-history of promoting climate science denial.

It's disgusting. No doubt she gets the same death and rape threats all prominent women on the Net get.
 

MaeZe

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Here's a study of how questions are dodged and talking points inserted:

CSPAN: House Freedom Caucus Members on Impeachment of President Trump

Did the president do anything wrong? Jim Jordan shifts to the whistleblower didn't like Trump, then calls the less than a full transcript a transcript and claims there was nothing wrong in there and brags that Trump released the transcript which was "unheard of." And they all agree.

Watch Chip Roy successfully dodge the question, was the request of one president asking another under these circumstances generically wrong? Roy uses volumes of unrelated information and when he gets back to the question asked, he answers a different question.

Then when asked why hide it? Jordan shifts to talking about leaks, also ignoring the question.

And so on...
 
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MaeZe

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Kellyanne Conway is trying to insert the talking point, Pelosi was coerced by the men in her caucus.

Boston Globe: Kellyanne Conway Says Pelosi Succumbed to Pressure from Men on Impeachment

HuffPo words it differently: Kellyanne Conway Lobs Sexist Dig At Nancy Pelosi, Says She Caved To Men On Impeachment
“She does the worst thing a woman in power can do ... she just changes her mind because the men around her said, ’Change your mind,’” Trump’s aide claimed.

I wonder how long it took her to come up with that one?
 

Kjbartolotta

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Kellyanne Conway is trying to insert the talking point, Pelosi was coerced by the men in her caucus.

Boston Globe: Kellyanne Conway Says Pelosi Succumbed to Pressure from Men on Impeachment

HuffPo words it differently: Kellyanne Conway Lobs Sexist Dig At Nancy Pelosi, Says She Caved To Men On Impeachment


I wonder how long it took her to come up with that one?

LOL. Part of the reason why (even tho I've disagreed with her stance up to this point) I seriously side-eye a lot of the Pelosi-punching I hear from the Left. Maybe less openly sexist coming from different quarters, but I've heard this talking point a lot before Kellyanne trots it out.
 

MaeZe

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I know Daily KOS leans further left than many news sources but it is well worth reading. This story was covering Warren's Tweets and evidence Zuckerberg is wielding his FaceBook power to get Trump re-elected.

Elizabeth Warren calls out Zuckerberg over new Facebook ad policies after his meeting with Trump
Elizabeth Warren

@ewarren
Facebook has incredible power to affect elections and our national debate. Mark Zuckerberg is telling employees that he views a Warren administration as an “existential” threat to Facebook. The public deserves to know how Facebook intends to use their influence in this election.

For instance, Trump and Zuckerberg met at the White House two weeks ago. What did they talk about? https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1179768591597674496

Adam Klasfeld

@KlasfeldReports
Trump and Zuckerberg met at the White House exactly two weeks ago. https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1179740913771405313



Elizabeth Warren

@ewarren
After that meeting, Facebook quietly changed its policies on “misinformation” in ads, allowing politicians to run ads that have already been debunked by independent, non-partisan fact-checkers. Put another way, Facebook is now okay with running political ads with known lies.



Elizabeth Warren

@ewarren
They’re allowing Trump to spend over $1 million a week right now for ads on their platform—including ones that air the same lies that TV stations won’t. Here’s an example of an ad that Facebook let Trump run despite being obviously untrue: https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-the-trump-campaign

Something we do know, however, is that on Sept. 24, Facebook shared it would not fact check or remove ad content by politicians, even if said content violated Facebook’s rules. Basically: Even if it’s false, that ad can stay up on Facebook, as long as a politician bought it.

Hmm. That’s some ... interesting timing, to say the least., especially considering we already know Trump’s re-election campaign has dropped serious money to reach potential voters on Facebook. How serious? As Warren suggests in her thread, about $1 million per week. If we want to look at recent numbers on the impeachment, for example, Trump’s campaign is spending an astounding $2 million per week on Facebook ads alone.

We do not know whether or not Zuckerberg’s meeting with Trump had any influence at all on this change in Facebook’s policies. That hasn’t yet been proven. But below, we can go over more context and possible connections.

In terms of misinformation, Facebook allows Trump’s campaign, for example, to promote ads that contain lies about 2020 presidential hopeful and former Vice President Joe Biden. And if you think everybody’s running them as a matter of course, that’s simply not the case, either. For example, Gizmodo reports that CNN has rejected two of those exact ads which are, apparently, perfectly fine on Facebook.

Next up: the leaked audio, which was first reported by The Verge. The audio suggests that Zuckerberg is wary of a presidency under Warren. In fact, during a meeting with Facebook employees this summer, he said that a Warren presidency would “suck” for Facebook.

In a follow up on the subject, Zuckerberg posted to Facebook (of course) where he, essentially, refused to back down from his point.

Why would it “suck” for the social media giant? Her platform involves breaking up big tech companies. Zuckerberg said he would go as far as to sue the U.S. government if Warren tried to follow through on that plan. He’s repeatedly suggested in the past that breaking up Facebook won’t prevent the spread of misinformation.

Mind you, Trump has attacked Facebook, but Zuckerberg has (so far) made no motions to sue the federal government.

To be clear: Warren is far from the only one who wants to hold Facebook accountable. For example, the Federal Trade Commission is already investigating Facebook as it is.

Warren’s final tweet in a long thread said it’s time for Congress and state authorities to act.

If the FTC tries to hold Trump accountable, won't Trump just replace the commissioners?
 

MaeZe

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GOP columnist claims fake sales tax plan is the Democratic plan to pay for Medicare for all, and Yahoo runs it like it was actual news.

Yahoo News: The Democratic plan for a 42% national sales tax; written by Rick Newman Senior Columnist,Yahoo Finance•October 28, 2019
If you’re a Democrat who supports “Medicare for All,” pick your poison. You can ruin your political career and immolate your party by imposing a ruinous new sales tax, a gargantuan income tax hike or a surtax on corporate income that would wreck thousands of businesses.

This is the cost of bold plans....

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB) has done voters a favor by spelling out what kinds of new taxes it would take to come up with that much money. Warren justifies many of her programs by saying all it would take is “two cents” from the wealthy. That’s a reference to her 2% wealth tax on ultra-millionaires. But Medicare for All would be so expensive that if you taxed top earners at 100%—that’s right, if you took all the income of couples earning more than $408,000 per year—you’d still fall far short. And everybody getting taxed at 100% would obviously stop working.

Okay, that won’t do it. So what will? CRFB outlined a variety of options. A 42% national sales tax (known as a valued-added tax) would generate about $3 trillion in revenue.

Tell Yahoo to stop falsely claiming this is the Democrats' plan. :rant:

Complaint started
Your Rick Newman just posted a story titled "The Democratic plan for a 42% national sales tax" that is completely false and misleading.
Your Rick Newman just posted a story titled "The Democratic plan for a 42% national sales tax" that is completely false and misleading. No democrat is suggesting such a tax and the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget that he references is not associated with the DNC. This is completely irresponsible and somebody should take yahoo to task for this. I live in Washington state and am forwarding this to my senators. Newman should be fired for this.
Add to the comments, you have to sign in. It will show up as anonymous.

I posted: "This comment is right. Shame on you allowing a lie to be the headline." Mine is the only comment. WE NEED MORE!!!

Also click on the 'vote' tab on the left. I think that helps move the comment up in rank.
 
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MaeZe

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I think this is the best thread to post this in:

We have entered the newest phase. First it was newspapers, then radio, then TV and now social media. With each phase the impact on governments shifted.

Upton Sinclair wrote The Brass Check, a fascinating exposé of the political power of the press in quashing various forms of socialism with things like stories of salacious scandals which at the time could sink a reporter. Behind the scenes, who owned the press controlled a lot, from other voices to politics. In the Brass Check it is autobiographical. Sinclair, himself, was blocked from publishing because of his politics. He did eventually get published and his work was best seller work.

That is incredibly relevant when you look at the power Zuckerberg has today. Trump thinks Bezos controls the day to day news of the WA Po. I don't know if he does or not. I suspect, not, but certainly the fact he owns that resource has implications.

The media has never stopped being influential, it has matured. The key here being that the owners often have too much power to influence/control people's beliefs.
 
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Diana Hignutt

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Billionaires own the media (mass and social), and the politicians, and are in the process of stoking hatred so we'll be too busy fighting each other to kick them to the curb, like they deserve. Even the ones you thought you could trust are spinning lies and fanning flames to incite conflict. They will destroy representative democracy (if not civilization itself) to keep the fruits of wealth inequality. Perilous times.
 

MaeZe

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Here's the latest big new lie to pay attention to.

Trump is still trying to sell the lie that the whole Mueller investigation was a witch hunt, (never mind the convictions and guilty pleas). So he has directed his minion, Barr, to investigate the initial FISA warrant to spy on Carter Page.

So it has been leaked? announced? to the press that the investigation has uncovered some supposed altered document by an FBI agent that was submitted to the court for the FISA warrant. Oooouuu, the smoking gun!

But oddly enough this leak/announcement was tossed out there to simmer with the implication it is some big important thing (even though it has already been suggested the alteration was insignificant). The actual mystery of what this is won't be released until Dec 9th.

The Hill (which I have lost confidence in, sorry for using their summary).
An FBI official is being investigated after allegedly altering a document connected to surveillance of a 2016 Trump campaign aide, CNN reported Thursday, citing people briefed on the matter.

The alleged altering was reportedly discovered as part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's probe into whether the FBI followed the law and its own policies while applying for a warrant to surveil a former Trump campaign official Carter Page during the 2016 election.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said this week that a report of Horowitz's findings was expected to be released Dec. 9.

Fox is playing this up, of course.

NYPost Washington Post quietly changes story on altered Russia probe document
I can't find the WA Po article but a lot of people don't have access to it anyway.
The Washington Post deleted a key detail from its reporting about the FBI lawyer accused of altering a document related to the surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser, according to a new report.

The newspaper nixed a portion of its story that identified the lawyer as an FBI employee underneath Peter Strzok, the ousted FBI agent who worked on the feds’ investigation into Russian election meddling, Fox News reported.

The update was made just after midnight Friday without explanation.

The lawyer in question is accused of fudging the document related to the FBI’s Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court warrant application to surveil Carter Page in 2016.

The altered paperwork, however, did not change the validity of the warrant, according to the Washington Post. Two officials told the newspaper that the lawyer was forced out over the incident.


So what do you do with a smoking gun that isn't really smoking? You hint and tease that you found this incriminating thing for ~3 weeks so that is sinks in that the FISA warrant was obtained using fraudulent information. And once that sinks into the subconscious of the believers, you release the actual detail that said finding was a 'nothing burger' at a time when, in a few months people will forget that part and only remember the claim something fraudulent was found.

NPR: Initial beliefs are hard to dislodge.

And yes, GOP marketers are well aware of this. Trump has people working for him that are also aware.
 
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MaeZe

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Trump's minions are 'drowning the fish' with a slew of op eds (note, not news but opinion) including two articles in the WSJ and dozens of alt-right amplifying articles claiming Schiff was searching out phone records illegally for dirt on Trump.

The Intelligence Committee denies it. From the Daily Beast: one of the few rebuttals one can find above the Google fold* so to speak.
The WSJ editorial was worded carefully enough that it was unclear if the author believed Schiff actually subpoenaed Solomon’s phone records or if he or she was arguing that Schiff shouldn’t have published the metadata ensnaring Solomon that came from non-Solomon specific subpoenas. Similar Schiff critics have left it vague too, including The Washington Examiner’s Byron York and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY).

Stay tuned.



*Search: first page of hits. By the way, this is done purposefully, with knowledge of how the Google search algorithm works. Ironically, while the GOP screams, 'liberal media,' there are quite a few news organizations here with favorable Trump stories.
 

MaeZe

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This Guardian article describes the sequence of events that led to the misinformation about hydroxychloroquine spreading throughout the media.

Hydroxychloroquine: how an unproven drug became Trump’s coronavirus miracle cure

From an unsupported conclusion in a bad study through Fox News and into Trump's fantasy world looking to latch on to any miracle cure that came along. It's worth reading to see how misinformation spreads.

I've been watching closely for any positive news on hydroxychloroquine and despite one pilot study with positive results and a couple of personal anecdotes not much is turning up.

One comment I read today was, if it was going to work we'd know by now. I find that a credible conclusion. I'm still open to research not yet completed.
 

MaeZe

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I continue to closely follow the developments about hydroxychloroquine, both scientific and other.

Today at the top of search returns I find a long list of right-wing news sites and commentaries claiming falsely there are more and more anecdotes of success, there are not. And they've taken on the typical defense of anything Trump: if you question hydroxychloroquine use it is specifically to attack Trump. It couldn't possibly be because no evidence of its effectiveness is emerging.
 
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Marissa D

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And in the meanwhile, those of us who take it for RA and other conditions are in trouble. I was lucky to refill my 3-month prescription in mid-March, just before this nonsense exploded. Other people I know weren't so lucky timing-wise and haven't been able to get theirs.
 

MaeZe

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Beware of the faux plural, look more closely.

Doctors rethinking coronavirus: Are we using ventilators the wrong way?
“What we’re doing now is not working, and I think making the same mistake over and over is a sign of stupidity,” Dr. Paul Marik told Yahoo News. “If it’s not working, we’ve got to look for something else.”

Marik is promoting a treatment of his own devising, a combination of corticosteroids and high-dose ascorbic acid, or vitamin C, as a first-line therapy for patients hospitalized with COVID-19.

One doctor. The article implies other doctors are following suit. I hope not. Cytokine storm or not, early information on using steroids on these patients made them seriously worse. It was that information that led to the brouhaha over ibuprophen.

I'm all for this once there is data. Try it as a last ditch effort or in a randomized controlled trial. But the news media here is carrying out an assault on science and critical thinking all for a click-bait headline/story.


Intravenous vitamin C is a huge red flag. And being a reputable physician? I can point you to a few of those who believe in and promote all kinds of woo. Being highly educated is no guarantee you are a critical thinker.
 

cbenoi1

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It couldn't possibly be because no evidence of its effectiveness is emerging.

On the contrary. That stuff is EXTREMELY effective...


Arizona Man Dies After Ingesting Fish Tank Chloroquine To Prevent Coronavirus
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...e-coronavirus-dead_n_5e7994f4c5b62f90bc506029

The man’s wife, who has not been named publicly, told NBC News that she and her husband decided to ingest the aquarium product after hearing Trump on TV refer to two anti-malaria drugs — chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine — as a potential “game changer” in the fight against COVID-19.

There won't be covidiots left soon enough.

-cb
 

cbenoi1

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It couldn't possibly be because no evidence of its effectiveness is emerging.

On the contrary. That stuff is EXTREMELY effective...


Arizona Man Dies After Ingesting Fish Tank Chloroquine To Prevent Coronavirus
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...e-coronavirus-dead_n_5e7994f4c5b62f90bc506029

The man’s wife, who has not been named publicly, told NBC News that she and her husband decided to ingest the aquarium product after hearing Trump on TV refer to two anti-malaria drugs — chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine — as a potential “game changer” in the fight against COVID-19.

There won't be covidiots left soon enough.

-cb
 

Roxxsmom

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Beware of the faux plural, look more closely.

Doctors rethinking coronavirus: Are we using ventilators the wrong way?

One doctor. The article implies other doctors are following suit. I hope not. Cytokine storm or not, early information on using steroids on these patients made them seriously worse. It was that information that led to the brouhaha over ibuprophen.

I'm all for this once there is data. Try it as a last ditch effort or in a randomized controlled trial. But the news media here is carrying out an assault on science and critical thinking all for a click-bait headline/story.


Intravenous vitamin C is a huge red flag. And being a reputable physician? I can point you to a few of those who believe in and promote all kinds of woo. Being highly educated is no guarantee you are a critical thinker.

This.

Careful use of corticosteroids might me a way to deal with a cytokine storm, in extreme cases, and where the patient was clearly recovering before it happened. But there's always a risk with suppressing the immune system, and it could make the patient vulnerable to other infections as well.

As for the vitamin C thing, people have been making extravagant claims about its supposed immune-enhancing effects since I was a kid at least (and probably before). In spite of this, there has been very little real evidence, generated in double-blind, controlled trials, that supports this.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5184850

But I've already seen evidence on facebook that the anti-vax, anti pharmacological crowd will point to this study as "proof" of something they badly want to believe--that they can heal themselves with something they can get online or at a local shop. At least vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, so mega doses of it aren't as likely to do harm as might some other "natural" remedies (or fish tank versions of plaquenel). But if it leads to false confidence, as in people thinking they don't have to wear masks, wash their hands, and social distance as much when they are taking lots of vitamin C, the notion could still be harmful.
 
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MaeZe

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This.

Careful use of corticosteroids might me a way to deal with a cytokine storm, in extreme cases, and where the patient was clearly recovering before it happened. But there's always a risk with suppressing the immune system, and it could make the patient vulnerable to other infections as well.

As for the vitamin C thing, people have been making extravagant claims about its supposed immune-enhancing effects since I was a kid at least (and probably before). In spite of this, there has been very little real evidence, generated in double-blind, controlled trials, that supports this.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5184850

But I've already seen evidence on facebook that the anti-vax, anti pharmacological crowd will point to this study as "proof" of something they badly want to believe. At least vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, so mega doses of it aren't as likely to do harm as might some other "natural" remedies (or fish tank versions of plaquenel). But if it leads to false confidence, as in people thinking they don't have to wear masks, wash their hands, and social distance as much when they are taking lots of vitamin C, the notion could still be harmful.
If you take large doses of vitamin C, your body gets used to dumping it. The infants of pregnant women who take large doses can actually suffer scurvy after delivery.
 

frimble3

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As for the vitamin C thing, people have been making extravagant claims about its supposed immune-enhancing effects since I was a kid at least (and probably before). In spite of this, there has been very little real evidence, generated in double-blind, controlled trials, that supports this.
The same for me, to the point that if I hear someone touting Vitamin C (or most other vitamins) as a cure for anything but scurvy, I tune out. It's the sign of B.S. walking.